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Can someome explain why Valverde is still allowed to race?

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Aug 13, 2009
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sartoris said:
All the evidence against Valverde is a blood bag from 2004.

Nope, there is much more then that.

There is his doping schedule, copies of his invoices for services, direct testimony from former teammates....you really should read the CAS decision. You will find the evidence against Valverde is overwhelming.
 
Race Radio said:
Nope, there is much more then that.

There is his doping schedule, copies of his invoices for services, direct testimony from former teammates....you really should read the CAS decision. You will find the evidence against Valverde is overwhelming.

As far as I can tell, this is as much or more evidence than what ended Jan's career. Basso also sat out a couple of years for this stuff (after they finally got him).
 
sartoris said:
That's the only truth. The Italians (and many other nations) don't have currently any riders that can compare to the Spanish stars - Valverde, Contador, Luis León Sánchez, Carlos Sastre, Samuel Sánchez, etc. Envy plays an important role in this issue.

All the evidence against Valverde is a blood bag from 2004. It's just not fair. He's the leader of the UCI, and that hurts many.

shipment_of_fail1.jpg
 
May 2, 2010
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Thanks for your kind replies.

You must admit that Valverde is clean and has been clean for the last few years. And he's WINNING. That's a fact. You can't disagree there no matter how much of a junkie Valverde might have been in the past.

If he wasn't such a great rider he would not be in the eye of the storm. As I said, his leading the UCI ProTour is really making all the cycling provosts mad.
 
May 5, 2010
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sartoris said:
Thanks for your kind replies.

You must admit that Valverde is clean and has been clean for the last few years. And he's WINNING. That's a fact. You can't disagree there no matter how much of a junkie Valverde might have been in the past.

If he wasn't such a great rider he would not be in the eye of the storm. As I said, his leading the UCI ProTour is really making all the cycling provosts mad.

So what you are essentially saying is last week when he was not leading the UCI pro tour ranking no one cared about his infraction and it has only come about since he took over the top position on the UCI rankings , i think if you go through many different threads and positions of different Posters on this forum that many (not all ) have been pushing for the banning of him for a long time before last week .

I have no doubt that he is an extremely talented cyclist and a wondeful alround talent but he chose to cheat , Doping is against the rules and nobody should be allowed to manipulate the system the way he has by claiming prize money in races he never should be allowed to ride in in the first place.

What would your opinion be if it was a non spanish rider manipulating the system and taking first place finishes from your favourite spanish riders?

Im a fan of all the Aussie boys and i understand being Patriotic but when the evidence is there in front of you surely there has to be some rational thinking on your part .
 
hektoren said:
Your own prejudice speaks volumes....
Where, exactly, is envy written into the mandate of CONI, of WADA, of UCI, of CAS?
Envy plays a big part in fanboys' minds, on an institutional level you'll find that it is so NOT the motivating factor. Valverde is as dirty as they come, and has been for the better part of his career. I really, sincerely, hope that the UCI make an example of him and ban him for life, strip him of all titles, sue him to bankruptcy, have his epo-laden balls sizzled with some bangers and mash for breakfast.
Who're you to fret?

+ about 100,000! :D
 
Apr 16, 2009
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sartoris said:
That's the only truth. The Italians (and many other nations) don't have currently any riders that can compare to the Spanish stars.

You are correct. No other country can compare to the Spanish. How proud you must be.

Jesus Manzano of Spain exposed doping practices in a series of articles in the Spanish newspaper Diario AS in March 2004. This included his use of EPO, Cortisone, Testosterone, Human Growth Hormone, Nandrolone, Oxyglobin, and the extreme practices to administer them. The revelations were so strong that Spanish investigations were begun, and these in turn lead to Operación Puerto.

Janet Puiggros Miranda of Spain became the second Spanish athlete to commit a doping offence at the Olympics after also testing positive for EPO during a pre-Olympic test. Like Gonzalez, she was withdrawn from competing (in the Women's Cross-Country race). She also denied the administration of a "B Test", which is used to verify the first drug test.

José Reynaldo Murillo of Spain tested positive for Erythropoietin in the 46th Vuelta a Guatemala in October 2004.

Roberto Heras, the winner of an unprecedented fourth Vuelta a España, tested positive for EPO prior to the penultimate stage of the 2005 Vuelta a España.[268] He was stripped of his 2005 Vuelta win and the victory was given to Russian Denis Menchov. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years".

Iñigo Landaluze, made his breakthrough by winning the 2005 Dauphiné Libéré, but it was soon announced he had tested positive for abnormally high testosterone and was suspended from racing until his case was heard out. In 2006, however, he was cleared to return to racing after he showed that the lab conducting tests committed procedural errors. The UCI then failed to show that those errors did not affect the outcome of the tests. The CAS panel reviewing the case said that it was "probable" that Landaluze had committed a doping violation, but the UCI had failed to meet its burden of proof in the case. New revisions to the WADA Code would suggest that Landaluze would have lost his case under the new rules.[270] The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' states 'Acquitted for legal reasons'

Jenaro Ramos Lozano of Spain tested positive for Stanozolol on 8 April 2005. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years".

Garcia Quesada Adolfo of Spain tested positive for Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) in competition on 19 May 2006. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2007' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years."

Victor Hernandez Baeta of Spain tested positive for EPO in an 'out of competition' test on 4 July 2006. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2007' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years."

Santos Gonzalez Capilla of Spain tested positive for Triamcinolone acetonide on 4 March 2006. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' stated "disqualification, warning and reprimand".

Aitor González, the winner of the 2002 Vuelta a España, tested positive twice in 2005, first during an out of competition test in August, and again during the 2005 Vuelta a España for a methyltestosterone metabolite. González claimed that the positive test was the result of a contaminated dietary supplement called Animal Pack prescribed by a doctor.[277] González was handed a two year ban and retired soon afterwards. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' listed 17 alpha methyl, 5 beta androstane, 3 alpha 17 beta dio and a 2 year ban.

Oscar Grau of Spain tested positive for Finasteride. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' states "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years".

Jon Pena Hernaez of Spain tested positive for Phentermine in competition on 1 August 2006. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2007' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years."

Christina Alcade Huertanos from Spain was disqualified for 2 years. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' listed Triamcinolone acetonide and a 2 year ban.

Aitor Osa from Spain was involved in the Operación Puerto doping case. The Guardia Civil in Madrid linked numbers used by Dr. Fuentes to identify blood sample bags to names; number 1 to Ullrich, number 2 to Basso, number 4 to Botero, number 5 to Sevilla, number 7 to Aitor's brother, Unai Osa, number 8 to Aitor Osa himself.

Unai Osa from Spain was involved in the Operación Puerto doping case. The Guardia Civil in Madrid linked numbers used by Dr. Fuentes to identify blood sample bags to names; number 1 to Ullrich, number 2 to Basso, number 4 to Botero, number 5 to Sevilla, number 7 to Unai Osa himself, and number 8 to his brother Aitor Osa.

Jose Antonio Pastor Roldan of Spain tested positive for Terbutaline on 19 June 2006. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' stated that he was sanctioned by 'disqualification and a warning'.

Fernando Torres of Spain tested positive for Ephedrine in competition on 8 July 2006. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2007' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years - (under appeal by rider)."

Jordi Reira Valls of Spain tested positive for Stanozolol and hCG on 16 May 2006. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' states "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years".

Aketza Peña of Spain and the Euskaltel-Euskadi team tested positive for the anabolic steroid nandrolone on 30 May 2007. The sample was taken after stage one of the Giro del Trentino on 24 April and was announced during the 2007 Giro d'Italia.[304] The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2007' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years".

José Antonio Pecharroman Fabian from Spain tested positive for Finasteride 'in competition' on 26 August 2007. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2007' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years".

Iban Mayo tested positive for EPO on the Tour de France's rest day, July 24, it was announced Monday night. His Saunier Duval team was informed of the positive test by the UCI and immediately suspended the Spanish rider.

Manuel Beltrán tested positive for EPO after the first stage of the Tour de France. The news broke on 11 July 2008. Blood abnormalities before the tour start had led French anti-doping agency AFLD to target the rider. Beltrán's team Liquigas withdrew him from the tour with immediate effect. French police questioned Beltrán over possible offences, and searched his hotel room. The B-Sample has not yet been tested.

Moisés Dueñas was withdrawn from the Barloworld team before the 11th stage of the Tour de France on 16 July. The official statement from ASO stated that he had tested positive for EPO at the end of the time trial fourth stage.[318] Barloworld, two days later, announced that they were withdrawing from sponsorship after this year's Tour de France.

Maria Moreno of Spain tested positive for EPO at the Beijing Olympics on 31 July. She left China on the day of the test, before the results were published, and reports in Spain claimed an 'anxiety attack'. IOC communications director Giselle Davies said: "She was tested in the Village and she had already left China that evening before having had the result. The test has come back positive for EPO. The disciplinary commission has ruled that she should be excluded from the Games and have her accreditation withdrawn." The IOC passed the case to the UCI for follow up.

On 11 February, the Italian National Olympic Committee matched DNA samples taken from Alejandro Valverde during a rest day in Italy of the 2008 Tour de France to blood seized in the Operación Puerto investigation.[345] At a February 2009 appearance in front of the Olympic Committee, Valverde maintained his innocence and questioned the Italians' jurisdiction over this case. In May 2009, the Italian Olympic Committee suspended him from competition in Italy for 2 years, effectively barring him from the 2009 Tour de France, which detoured briefly onto Italian soil.

Antonio Colom tested positive for EPO in an out of competition test on 2 April. He was targeted for additional controls using information from his blood profile. Colom's positive drug test is the second within the ranks of Katusha within five weeks (see Christian Pfannberger).

On 31 July 2009, it was announced that Mikel Astarloza had tested positive for Recombinant Erythropoietin (EPO) on 26 June 2009 and was being provisionally suspended by the UCI.

On 18 September 2009, it was announced that Liberty Seguros Continental team rider Isidro Nozal tested positive for EPO-CERA in controls prior to the Tour of Portugal.

On 16 March 2010, Alejandro Valverde's appeal against his ban from riding in Italy was rejected by the Court of Arbitration for Sport. It was confirmed that he could not ride on Italian soil again until 10 March 2011. A UCI press statement, issued after this hearing, stated that "the UCI expresses its determination to take the necessary measures to secure a suspension that is applicable internationally."[363] The UCI President Pat McQuaid stated later that it will seek to extend Valverde's ban worldwide.[364] On 27 March, McQuaid said that the UCI will wait to impose a worldwide ban on Valverde until CAS rules on an appeal by the UCI, protesting the fact that the Spanish cycling federation (RFEC) did not open disciplinary proceedings against Valverde. As yet, there has been no such decision.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
biker jk said:
You are correct. No other country can compare to the Spanish. How proud you must be.

Jesus Manzano of Spain exposed doping practices in a series of articles in the Spanish newspaper Diario AS in March 2004. This included his use of EPO, Cortisone, Testosterone, Human Growth Hormone, Nandrolone, Oxyglobin, and the extreme practices to administer them. The revelations were so strong that Spanish investigations were begun, and these in turn lead to Operación Puerto.

Janet Puiggros Miranda of Spain became the second Spanish athlete to commit a doping offence at the Olympics after also testing positive for EPO during a pre-Olympic test. Like Gonzalez, she was withdrawn from competing (in the Women's Cross-Country race). She also denied the administration of a "B Test", which is used to verify the first drug test.

José Reynaldo Murillo of Spain tested positive for Erythropoietin in the 46th Vuelta a Guatemala in October 2004.

Roberto Heras, the winner of an unprecedented fourth Vuelta a España, tested positive for EPO prior to the penultimate stage of the 2005 Vuelta a España.[268] He was stripped of his 2005 Vuelta win and the victory was given to Russian Denis Menchov. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years".

Iñigo Landaluze, made his breakthrough by winning the 2005 Dauphiné Libéré, but it was soon announced he had tested positive for abnormally high testosterone and was suspended from racing until his case was heard out. In 2006, however, he was cleared to return to racing after he showed that the lab conducting tests committed procedural errors. The UCI then failed to show that those errors did not affect the outcome of the tests. The CAS panel reviewing the case said that it was "probable" that Landaluze had committed a doping violation, but the UCI had failed to meet its burden of proof in the case. New revisions to the WADA Code would suggest that Landaluze would have lost his case under the new rules.[270] The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' states 'Acquitted for legal reasons'

Jenaro Ramos Lozano of Spain tested positive for Stanozolol on 8 April 2005. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years".

Garcia Quesada Adolfo of Spain tested positive for Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) in competition on 19 May 2006. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2007' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years."

Victor Hernandez Baeta of Spain tested positive for EPO in an 'out of competition' test on 4 July 2006. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2007' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years."

Santos Gonzalez Capilla of Spain tested positive for Triamcinolone acetonide on 4 March 2006. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' stated "disqualification, warning and reprimand".

Aitor González, the winner of the 2002 Vuelta a España, tested positive twice in 2005, first during an out of competition test in August, and again during the 2005 Vuelta a España for a methyltestosterone metabolite. González claimed that the positive test was the result of a contaminated dietary supplement called Animal Pack prescribed by a doctor.[277] González was handed a two year ban and retired soon afterwards. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' listed 17 alpha methyl, 5 beta androstane, 3 alpha 17 beta dio and a 2 year ban.

Oscar Grau of Spain tested positive for Finasteride. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' states "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years".

Jon Pena Hernaez of Spain tested positive for Phentermine in competition on 1 August 2006. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2007' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years."

Christina Alcade Huertanos from Spain was disqualified for 2 years. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' listed Triamcinolone acetonide and a 2 year ban.

Aitor Osa from Spain was involved in the Operación Puerto doping case. The Guardia Civil in Madrid linked numbers used by Dr. Fuentes to identify blood sample bags to names; number 1 to Ullrich, number 2 to Basso, number 4 to Botero, number 5 to Sevilla, number 7 to Aitor's brother, Unai Osa, number 8 to Aitor Osa himself.

Unai Osa from Spain was involved in the Operación Puerto doping case. The Guardia Civil in Madrid linked numbers used by Dr. Fuentes to identify blood sample bags to names; number 1 to Ullrich, number 2 to Basso, number 4 to Botero, number 5 to Sevilla, number 7 to Unai Osa himself, and number 8 to his brother Aitor Osa.

Jose Antonio Pastor Roldan of Spain tested positive for Terbutaline on 19 June 2006. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' stated that he was sanctioned by 'disqualification and a warning'.

Fernando Torres of Spain tested positive for Ephedrine in competition on 8 July 2006. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2007' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years - (under appeal by rider)."

Jordi Reira Valls of Spain tested positive for Stanozolol and hCG on 16 May 2006. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2006' states "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years".

Aketza Peña of Spain and the Euskaltel-Euskadi team tested positive for the anabolic steroid nandrolone on 30 May 2007. The sample was taken after stage one of the Giro del Trentino on 24 April and was announced during the 2007 Giro d'Italia.[304] The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2007' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years".

José Antonio Pecharroman Fabian from Spain tested positive for Finasteride 'in competition' on 26 August 2007. The UCI summary of 'Decisions on Anti-Doping Rule Violations made in 2007' stated "disqualification and ineligibility for 2 years".

Iban Mayo tested positive for EPO on the Tour de France's rest day, July 24, it was announced Monday night. His Saunier Duval team was informed of the positive test by the UCI and immediately suspended the Spanish rider.

Manuel Beltrán tested positive for EPO after the first stage of the Tour de France. The news broke on 11 July 2008. Blood abnormalities before the tour start had led French anti-doping agency AFLD to target the rider. Beltrán's team Liquigas withdrew him from the tour with immediate effect. French police questioned Beltrán over possible offences, and searched his hotel room. The B-Sample has not yet been tested.

Moisés Dueñas was withdrawn from the Barloworld team before the 11th stage of the Tour de France on 16 July. The official statement from ASO stated that he had tested positive for EPO at the end of the time trial fourth stage.[318] Barloworld, two days later, announced that they were withdrawing from sponsorship after this year's Tour de France.

Maria Moreno of Spain tested positive for EPO at the Beijing Olympics on 31 July. She left China on the day of the test, before the results were published, and reports in Spain claimed an 'anxiety attack'. IOC communications director Giselle Davies said: "She was tested in the Village and she had already left China that evening before having had the result. The test has come back positive for EPO. The disciplinary commission has ruled that she should be excluded from the Games and have her accreditation withdrawn." The IOC passed the case to the UCI for follow up.

On 11 February, the Italian National Olympic Committee matched DNA samples taken from Alejandro Valverde during a rest day in Italy of the 2008 Tour de France to blood seized in the Operación Puerto investigation.[345] At a February 2009 appearance in front of the Olympic Committee, Valverde maintained his innocence and questioned the Italians' jurisdiction over this case. In May 2009, the Italian Olympic Committee suspended him from competition in Italy for 2 years, effectively barring him from the 2009 Tour de France, which detoured briefly onto Italian soil.

Antonio Colom tested positive for EPO in an out of competition test on 2 April. He was targeted for additional controls using information from his blood profile. Colom's positive drug test is the second within the ranks of Katusha within five weeks (see Christian Pfannberger).

On 31 July 2009, it was announced that Mikel Astarloza had tested positive for Recombinant Erythropoietin (EPO) on 26 June 2009 and was being provisionally suspended by the UCI.

On 18 September 2009, it was announced that Liberty Seguros Continental team rider Isidro Nozal tested positive for EPO-CERA in controls prior to the Tour of Portugal.

On 16 March 2010, Alejandro Valverde's appeal against his ban from riding in Italy was rejected by the Court of Arbitration for Sport. It was confirmed that he could not ride on Italian soil again until 10 March 2011. A UCI press statement, issued after this hearing, stated that "the UCI expresses its determination to take the necessary measures to secure a suspension that is applicable internationally."[363] The UCI President Pat McQuaid stated later that it will seek to extend Valverde's ban worldwide.[364] On 27 March, McQuaid said that the UCI will wait to impose a worldwide ban on Valverde until CAS rules on an appeal by the UCI, protesting the fact that the Spanish cycling federation (RFEC) did not open disciplinary proceedings against Valverde. As yet, there has been no such decision.

Impressive work. Really impressive (depressingly so) list.

Well done.
 
If you think about it percentage-wise, there are a lot of Spanish doping cases, but there are a LOT of Spaniards in the péloton. A quarter of the British riders in the Tour de France had a known history of doping, and without casting aspersions based on hearsay or prejudice ("he's Spanish", "he rides for Euskaltel", and the like) that can't be said of the Spaniards, even if it may be true.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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Roland Rat said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/valverde-case-gets-further-support

:eek: You sure this was a Spanish court? :p The real judges must have been on holiday.

Anyway.

What happens with his right to ride in Italy if/when Valv.piti gets banned by the UCI? Presumably that would take effect everywhere and there wouldn't be some loophole allowing him to ride in Italy when the CONI ban expires? Now that would be ironic.

That's the part about this that is getting so ridiculous. UCI have sat around and waited far too long on this, and anything they do now is going to look somewhat odd.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Beech Mtn said:
That's the part about this that is getting so ridiculous. UCI have sat around and waited far too long on this, and anything they do now is going to look somewhat odd.

Unfortunately, until now, the UCI hasn't been able to do anything because the Spanish Court was standing in the way. As a result of this decision, CAS can now compel the Spanish Federation to open a proceeding. The evidence used by CONI can now come in, because the Spanish Court has changed their opinion from "fraudulently" obtained to legally obtained. So it is no longer "fruit of the poisoned tree" and the Spanish Federation's defense of insufficient evidence is no longer valid. As such, Valverde is now in serious trouble.
 
May 6, 2010
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Suspension in 2010 for mandatory doping in 2004?

Libertine Seguros said:
It must be noted, however, that though Operación Puerto hit the fan in 2006, the blood bags in question date from 2004. During 2004 he was riding for Kelme, a team that has been proven to have been involved with team doping, and of course that has meant that the present Operación Grial investigation, into Kelme 2003-4, has featured as the most prominent rider none other than Alejandro Valverde - not because he was doping any more than anybody else, but solely because almost all the others got busted or pushed down a level after Puerto (the likes of David Blanco at teams like Palmeiras Resort, for example).

I think this is the main point. When he was virtually a neopro, Valverde was in Kelme, which was according to Jesus Manzano was an organized doping squad. Manzano claimed that riders essentially had no choice: dope or get fired. That was a long time ago, Valverde left the team years ago, and there have been no irregularities in his bio-passport or positive tests since then. What is the point of suspending him now? Why are his current victories illegitimate when the alleged doping occurred over six years ago? A retroactive suspension with victories stricken from the record in 2004-2006 would seem reasonable, but taking away his 2009-2010 victories for doping in 2004 has no logic whatsoever. Suspensions have to take place when the doping takes place, otherwise they are meaningless.
 
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Love the Scenery said:
I think this is the main point. When he was virtually a neopro, Valverde was in Kelme, which was according to Jesus Manzano was an organized doping squad. Manzano claimed that riders essentially had no choice: dope or get fired. That was a long time ago, Valverde left the team years ago, and there have been no irregularities in his bio-passport or positive tests since then. What is the point of suspending him now? Why are his current victories illegitimate when the alleged doping occurred over six years ago? A retroactive suspension with victories stricken from the record in 2004-2006 would seem reasonable, but taking away his 2009-2010 victories for doping in 2004 has no logic whatsoever. Suspensions have to take place when the doping takes place, otherwise they are meaningless.

Puerto started in 2006, not 2004. Saying that a UCI-ban today is meaningless would be tantamount to saying that "Get a legal team to stall, subvert, protest, drag your heels, never, never ever admit anything even in the face of incontrovertible facts, keep going, riding, spitting in the face of fellow cyclists who believe that being "clean" actually is an admirable trait as they're putting in their endless hours of painful training, ****ting on fans of the sport, sponsors, TV-companies broadcasting a competition that's supposed to be fair, loosing out on viewers when it's all too evident that the deck of cards is tampered with.

If Mr. Pitiful was to be strapped to an electric chair today, I'd be only too happy to flip the switch. Not to kill him. Just to make it really, really hurt.
 
Love the Scenery said:
That was a long time ago, Valverde left the team years ago, and there have been no irregularities in his bio-passport or positive tests since then. What is the point of suspending him now?

If that were the case, then stalling would be the only process legal teams would need to use. Eventually, it would be "oh, come on now, it's been a few years, let's just all be friends and not worry about it anymore". All you would need to do is deny, deny, deny, delay, delay, delay ... it's all OK :D

The point of suspending him is that he got tagged and he needs to serve his penalty. I guess you should ultimately blame Valv himself, he could have copped to it pretty quickly, served 1-2 yeas, and been back competing, all a few years ago!
 
hektoren said:
Puerto started in 2006, not 2004. Saying that a UCI-ban today is meaningless would be tantamount to saying that "Get a legal team to stall, subvert, protest, drag your heels, never, never ever admit anything even in the face of incontrovertible facts, keep going, riding, spitting in the face of fellow cyclists who believe that being "clean" actually is an admirable trait as they're putting in their endless hours of painful training, ****ting on fans of the sport, sponsors, TV-companies broadcasting a competition that's supposed to be fair, loosing out on viewers when it's all too evident that the deck of cards is tampered with.

If Mr. Pitiful was to be strapped to an electric chair today, I'd be only too happy to flip the switch. Not to kill him. Just to make it really, really hurt.


Your argument in support of clean riders is like a religious argument in support of a higher power. While there is no tangible proof that either exists, the faithful continue to profess their belief. Doping didn't start with Tom Simpson, and it is not going to end when they throw Valverde under the bus.

I believe that Darwin had it right. The evolution of the species depends on the demise and sacrifice of the few, to educate the masses on just what they can get away with. You can maintain the romantic notion that Valverde is an anomaly in professional cycling, but he is more accurately a product of natural selection at the highest level.

Every professional at that level does exactly what he needs to do to remain competitive, and they always have, all the way back to the origins of the sport. Some of those practices have been made illegal, and some of those practices are yet to be, but will in the future. Those that survive will adapt their methods or be sacrificed to further educate the group and prolong their survival. And you cannot name a sport where this is not the case.

Those that believe in fairness in sport will continue to make rules to try, but fail to attain that ethereal concept. The reality is that the talent pool at the top of the food chain in cycling is deeper than it has been in the history of the sport. There is greater parity in all categories of riders from the Classics to Grand Tours, and from sprinter to climbers. That is a sign of a relatively healthy species.

There is nothing fair about competitive sport. Some competitors have more power, some more talent, or endurance, or intelligence. Competition exists to show us who is best adapted to the effort. The winner is almost always the one with the greatest advantage. "The strongest rider always wins the Tour", is often repeated cliche among riders and commentators alike.

If we really wanted to make competition "fair" you'd have to eliminate any tangible advantages in bicycle aerodynamics and weight. Make them all use the same wheels, frames, helmets etc... and yeah, that's all pretty f@#kin silly. It is ironic that we let, encourage, even rely on the natural selection of equipment at the highest levels of the sport, and in the end attempt to arbitrarily control human nature at it's most competitive level. Good luck with that.

You can feel good about putting Valverde down as a doper, and as an example at an attempt at fairness. Whether it is good for the sport or not is a matter of individual opinion that will never be settled. But you can't do it without teaching the rest of the peloton how to survive and do it better next time. That's the nature of evolution.
 
May 6, 2010
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Of course, it's all Valverde's fault.

hektoren said:
If Mr. Pitiful was to be strapped to an electric chair today, I'd be only too happy to flip the switch. Not to kill him. Just to make it really, really hurt.

Pretty much the sort of response that I expected. You act as if Valverde's alleged doping with Kelme was an individual choice, as if he went out of his way to seek out these drugs in order to subvert the sport of cycling. That's not the way it was. Again, let me emphasize, if Manzano is to be believed, Valverde was threatened with being fired if he did not take the drugs, as the whole team was threatened. To go after the riders in a situation like this--and six years after the events, at that--is just ridiculous. Has CONI or anyone else gone after the team managers and doctors that perpetrated this crime? No, of course not. Because the team managers who forced these drugs on the riders have all gotten off scot-free. It is wrong, absolutely wrong, to go after Valverde for being recruited by a team that was, according to Manzano, an organized doping ring. You are acting as if he went out of his way to take these substances, when what happened is his choice was take them or be, not only forced out of the sport, but declared a traitor to the sport and never hired again. Now, if the people who actually committed the crimes--obtaining the drugs, coercing riders into taking them, and administering the drugs to riders--were caught and punished, that would be justice. Valverde may have taken the drugs but the point of Spanish law is that he is not held responsible for consuming drugs--those legally responsible are his suppliers. CONI has it completely backwards, as do you.
 

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