Cancellara

[BroDeal]

There were two Classicomano in Fuentes files. One had the name (Luigi) next to it the other did not

The blood would have been deposited late in 2005 or early 2006. What had Cancellara won by that time that would make him considered a classics man? His wins were almost all stages in small stage races.

 

[Katzenbacker73]

You don't add up.

- You obviously didn't read Boonen's quotes, either. They were not doing a TTT. And Fabian doesn't have jets up his ****..

I know what the quote is from Tom Bonnen, but are you seriously going to deny the reality you saw with your two eyes? History is filled with people who give an account that does not square with the facts. For example: witnesses of Titanic gave conflicting accounts of whether the ship sank in one or two pieces even though they all saw the same event.

Here is what happened: A total of 9 riders assisted with a committed chase.
They all gave multiple pulls and you will find them on the video at these particular points pulling at the front:

48.8KM from the finish, Steve Chainel
48.5KM Bonnen
48.1KM Thor Hushovd
44.8km Bjorn Leukemens
44.6km Leif Hoste
41.7KM Roger Hammond
40.4KM Flecha
40.3KM Filippo Pozzato
28.0KM Sebastian Hinault

They all rotated multiple times through the front, this is only a starter list of the times they were at the front!

What is next? Do you want to argue that there is 61 minutes in a hour?

 

[Katzenbacker73]

hmm that goes against what was commented on by boonen himself. it was more like a ITT for boonen who was already a spent force from attacking all the time. the others that were with him were racing for second. FC was racing for the win. the other riders used boonens strength and when he had nothing left they dropped him

I know what the quote is from Tom Bonnen, but are you seriously going to deny the reality you saw with your two eyes? History is filled with people who give an account that does not square with the facts. For example: witnesses of Titanic gave conflicting accounts of whether the ship sank in one or two pieces even though they all saw the same event.

Here is what happened: A total of 9 riders assisted with a committed chase.

They all gave multiple pulls and you will find them on the video at these particular points pulling at the front:

48.8KM from the finish, Steve Chainel
48.5KM Bonnen
48.1KM Thor Hushovd
44.8km Bjorn Leukemens
44.6km Leif Hoste
41.7KM Roger Hammond
40.4KM Flecha
40.3KM Filippo Pozzato
28.0KM Sebastian Hinault

They all rotated multiple times through the front, this is only a starter list of the times they were at the front!

What is next? Do you want to argue that there is 61 minutes in a hour?

 

[Race Radio]

The blood would have been deposited late in 2005 or early 2006. What had Cancellara won by that time that would make him considered a classics man? His wins were almost all stages in small stage races.

It has been 20 years since I lived in Spain but as I remember the Classics were called Historicos not Classico in Spanish.

 

[Cerberus]

I am very surprised at all the individuals here using the rationale that doesn’t matter if Fabian may have doped; that is a very corrosive attitude! Once you have lost truth, you have lost EVERYTHING! Truth is not relative; it is absolute. It is wrong to behave unethically whether it is sport, business or whatever your professional endeavor.

The reality is that not everybody in pro cycling does dope, some like David Millar have made a conscious decision that regardless where they place they are going to compete clean!

I don't know if you can read my post all the way up from you high horse, but the truth (you know the stuff that's not relative) is that David Millar is, unlike Cancellara, known for an absolute cold hard fact to have used doping. Perhaps he's stopped, but all we know is that he talks the talk. For all you talk of "truth" you seem to judge riders by a very selective standard. Why does your "true", "absolute" ethics judge the suspected doper Cancellara so much hasher than the known doper Millar?

 

[Oldman]

hmm that goes against what was commented on by boonen himself. it was more like a ITT for boonen who was already a spent force from attacking all the time. the others that were with him were racing for second. FC was racing for the win. the other riders used boonens strength and when he had nothing left they dropped him

I'd be more worried about the fact that if everyone thinks FC is doped up to the gills, then how come Contador seems to be able to compete in ITT's with the worlds best time trialer. AC beat FC by 3 seconds in the tour last year over a pretty flat 40km course (1 cat 3 climb 3.7km long + 31km flat). sure it was nearing the end of the tour, but if FC was doped then he should be recovering well. Strange how you don't really see much AC is on dope talks

That's what I saw. Additionally Cancellara gained a huge margin in the first several K's while everyone sat. The "pulls" that were put in by most of the trailers were not as committed or was there a smooth rotation. A strong single guy maintaining a solid tempo will gain time. Boonen had to pull for the fans and the cameras. For him to do anything else wouldn't have satisfied the Belgain press. It's not all about numbers.

 

[Big GMaC]

Here is what happened: A total of 9 riders assisted with a committed chase.

They all gave multiple pulls and you will find them on the video at these particular points pulling at the front:

48.8KM from the finish, Steve Chainel
48.5KM Bonnen
48.1KM Thor Hushovd
44.8km Bjorn Leukemens
44.6km Leif Hoste
41.7KM Roger Hammond
40.4KM Flecha
40.3KM Filippo Pozzato
28.0KM Sebastian Hinault

They all rotated multiple times through the front, this is only a starter list of the times they were at the front!

Were you seriously watching the same race?

A commited chase? Leif Hoste and Boonen were going crazy at the front waving people up to the front to take pulls and no one went willingly.

In your own list you have Flecha taking a 100metre turn. Commited? Ha!

A committed Group TTT would have had them spinning round every 30 seconds, like clockwork going au bloc to catch the man off the front. But that was never going to happen with Tommeke (and to a lesser extent Thor) in the group with their finishes.

 

[Martin318is]

I watched the whole thing - and have watched it again given this conversation.

At NO TIME did the group work as a coordinated chase pack. The idea that they worked as a TTT is insane. There was no organisation and even though they complained at everyone else, Hoste and Boonen themselves didn't even actually work together swapping turns or anything because there is no value in that with 5 people sitting on you.

What actually happened was a bunch of people just hanging on the back and then chasing anyone who tried to get away. We all know that the consistent result of this type of behaviour is a REDUCTION in average speed of the group.

How else do you think Pozzato got back on those times he was dropped? - Surges and pauses all the way home!

 

[el_angliru]

Yes, it's absurd. The fact that Flecha almost immediately gained a minute on Cancellara when he jumped away from the group also shows that the group wasn't working too hard!

 

[wattage]

Maybe they were not allout but they were not cruising either. Nobody could catch Boonens group from behind.

 

[Willy_Voet]

squeek

squeek

Do you post twice for dramatic effect?

He dropped the 10 strongest men in the race who were doing essentially a TTT for final 50km to try and catch him. He was gaining a minute every 10km!

He won by 2 minutes. That's not 5 minutes, not by my math. But don't let numbers get in the way of making a really good story.

 

[JPM London]

Maybe they were not allout but they were not cruising either. Nobody could catch Boonens group from behind.

Which was all they needed to ensure in order to fight for the secondary positions. The risk of losing even more ground attempting to catch FC was too high in the group.

The fact that some of FC's gap could be caught by a single effort shows that he wasn't hammering away in an unreal manner...

 

[Katzenbacker73]

All you Dr Ferrari and Dr Fuentes apologists would argue with Jesus if he said there was 1,000 meters in a kilometer. Come on just admit it, what you are really angry about is how you got ripped off by the Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis legal defense funds….

 

[Cerberus]

Lets debate if the sky is blue, or if there is 1001 meters in a kilometer......

Why not? We're already arguing whether 2 minutes = 5 minutes and whether a chase by 9 riders almost all from different teams, several of whom have openly admitted they were racing for second amount to a TTT.

 

[Escarabajo]

All you Dr Ferrari and Dr Fuentes apologists would argue with Jesus if he said there was 1,000 meters in a kilometer. Come on just admit it, what you are really angry about is how you got ripped off by the Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis legal defense funds….

This is my take. I believe Cancellara was jacked, because of several reasons which have been explained in here. But your theory of being jacked because of the way he pulled from the group of riders really does not add up. I'd advice you to concede this point. I saw the tape and saw a much disorganized group behind Cancellara. That was really not a cohesive pursuit.

Having said that, I believe the riders behind them were jacked too. So why he won? It was explained by other posters at the beginning on this thread. Doping is just part of the equation.

 

[Jonathan]

Going into the Ardennes classics, there is something interesting to note here. The Ronde v. Vlaanderen/Roubaix winners have not been clear dopers, while the ones who did the Fleche Wallone/LBL double have a more muddy record. First, there were Van Petegem, Boonen and now Cancellara, while the latter includes Rebellin and Valverde. I also thought Di Luca was in the list, but he didn't win the two races in the same year.

 

[Willy_Voet]

Come on just admit it, what you are really angry about is how you got ripped off by the Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis legal defense funds….

No. I know they pretty much all do something. See Escarabajo:

Having said that, I believe the riders behind them were jacked too. So why he won? It was explained by other posters at the beginning on this thread. Doping is just part of the equation.

If Cancellara was the only one doping, Boonen would have called him on it. Or Flecha.

But since they all have skeletons (or syringes) in their closet, no one does. You don't need to call it Omerta or whatever. It's called a guilty conscience. A collective guilty conscience.

 

[Escarabajo]

Going into the Ardennes classics, there is something interesting to note here. The Ronde v. Vlaanderen/Roubaix winners have not been clear dopers, while the ones who did the Fleche Wallone/LBL double have a more muddy record. First, there were Van Petegem, Boonen and now Cancellara, while the latter includes Rebellin and Valverde. I also thought Di Luca was in the list, but he didn't win the two races in the same year.

It could be just coincidence. Here is my take:

- PR / Tour de Flanders are different type of races. More built for the Belgium rider or bigger rider type.
- Fleche Wallone / LBL is closer to the GT which is being targeted by the smaller built riders. Do these two have any Pave at all?

My two cents.

 

[patricknd]

No. I know they pretty much all do something. See Escarabajo:



If Cancellara was the only one doping, Boonen would have called him on it. Or Flecha.

But since they all have skeletons (or syringes) in their closet, no one does. You don't need to call it Omerta or whatever. It's called a guilty conscience. A collective guilty conscience.

very well said.

 

[Hitchey]

All you Dr Ferrari and Dr Fuentes apologists would argue with Jesus if he said there was 1,000 meters in a kilometer. Come on just admit it, what you are really angry about is how you got ripped off by the Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis legal defense funds….

In fairy tales, what's a disfigured little creature that lives under bridges?

You might want to clean your spectacles because you sure didn't see the same race the rest of us saw.

TTT, hard chase... Did you see the unicorn?
Your made up friend didn't know what a km was either, btw. Keep up the great logic.

 

[BroDeal]

Cancellara will skip Amstel and LBL even though Riis says he is in the form of his life. Canc says he needs to rest until the Tour of California. Uh-huh...

 

[hfer07]

Cancellara will skip Amstel and LBL even though Riis says he is in the form of his life. Canc says he needs to rest until the Tour of California. Uh-huh...

He probably got a call from UCI/McQuaid saying that he cant' just win every weekend race in April....

 

[Escarabajo]

He probably got a call from UCI/McQuaid saying that he cant' just win every weekend race in April....

LOL.

Or just make up an excuse that he is tired because he is starting to look suspicious.

 

[JPM London]

Ok, I get it now.

First we can conclude Cancellara is doping because he wins a race.

Then we can conclude he's doping because he's actually tired afterwards??
Sorry but wouldn't that actually sort of indicate the opposite?

I bet that if he had announced "I'm doing the Ardennes as well", then you guys would have said that was suspicious as well!

 

[Escarabajo]

Ok, I get it now.

First we can conclude Cancellara is doping because he wins a race.

Then we can conclude he's doping because he's actually tired afterwards??
Sorry but wouldn't that actually sort of indicate the opposite?

I bet that if he had announced "I'm doing the Ardennes as well", then you guys would have said that was suspicious as well!

You know why we make those comments? Because we already believe that he is doping. So every comment he makes is to fit that purpose anyway. So we are not looking into whether he is doping or not. It looks like we already made up our minds.