Cancellara

[JPM London]

Yes, I am sure FC only received some interval training tips from Cecchini. Like Lance used Ferrari just for his training program..

No, no. LA only asked Ferrari to squeeze oranges; he's supposed to be really good at that...

 

[Escarabajo]

Some people always knew he was very talented. So it opens the door for "huge natural talent" theory. But then if the others were doped, then it is impossible for FC to ....

Here is the comment by Aldo Sassi:

However, Italian coach Aldo Sassi believes Cancellara could aim even higher, suggesting that Cancellara could be a Tour de France contender if he loses some muscle mass and further body fat.

As the coach of World Champion Cadel Evans and Ivan Basso, Sassi knows what it takes to identify and hone Grand Tour contenders. He was also the coach of the Mapei team that signed Cancellara to the Mapei development team in 2001, along with Filippo Pozzato, Michael Rogers, Dario Cioni, Charlie Wegelius and Bernhard Eisel.

"When we signed Fabian, we knew how talented he was because he'd already won two junior world time trial titles, but when we analysed his laboratory results, they convinced us of his huge potential," Sassi told Gazzetta dello Sport on Tuesday.

"For a rider like Fabian, raising the bar is not about going for the hour record, I'm convinced he can go for the major Tours. Perhaps not the Giro d'Italia, but the Tour de France for sure. We signed him to the Mapei development team with that goal in mind. We saw what he could do in time trials and we thought he'd could win short stage races and eventually become a rider for the major Tours."

You can read it in here:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/could-cancellara-win-the-tour-de-france

 

[Anonymous]

Have not heard that one before. What is the name link supposed to be?

literally translated - classic hands
long since accepted that it was a csc rider

 

[Oldman]

You can read it in here:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/could-cancellara-win-the-tour-de-france[/QUOTE]

However, Italian coach Aldo Sassi believes Cancellara could aim even higher, suggesting that Cancellara could be a Tour de France contender if he loses some muscle mass and further body fat.

As the coach of World Champion Cadel Evans and Ivan Basso, Sassi knows what it takes to identify and hone Grand Tour contenders. He was also the coach of the Mapei team that signed Cancellara to the Mapei development team in 2001, along with Filippo Pozzato, Michael Rogers, Dario Cioni, Charlie Wegelius and Bernhard Eisel.

"When we signed Fabian, we knew how talented he was because he'd already won two junior world time trial titles, but when we analysed his laboratory results, they convinced us of his huge potential," Sassi told Gazzetta dello Sport on Tuesday.

That was in 2001. The changes he'd have to make to be a Tour de F contender would take years. He's at an age where he can make as much cash without jeopardizing his current standard of performance. It would be a questionable professional decision to do it IMO.

 

[JPM London]

Yeah I kinda figured the "classic hands" bit myself... More curious about the Luigi bit. A dog as all the other ones?

I don't like to see CSC riders in there, but with Basso already there for certain it's not difficult to make further connections (even looking away from the Cecchini-Fuentes link in the first place).

 

[JPM London]

That was in 2001. The changes he'd have to make to be a Tour de F contender would take years. He's at an age where he can make as much cash without jeopardizing his current standard of performance. It would be a questionable professional decision to do it IMO.

Well, it's not so long ago that he himself said he was still harbouring dreams of winning the tour, but I think you're right in as much he will focus on the classics at least until he has all the monuments.

 

[JPM London]

Yeah I kinda figured the "classic hands" bit myself... More curious about the Luigi bit. A dog as all the other ones?

Ah, I get it now. Finally the penny dropped: Luigi - as in Cecchini.

I can definitely see the possibility of the classic hands from Luigi being FC. Could be a couple of others as well I guess...

 

[rghysens]

literally translated - classic hands
long since accepted that it was a csc rider

it rather means "crazy about classics" (-mano is derived from ancient Greek manos, I think)

 

[JPM London]

it rather means "crazy about classics" (-mano is derived from ancient Greek manos, I think)

Or, considering Fuentes is Spanish, mano is derived from the Spanish word for hand...

Anyway, was there ever anything conclusive on who Amigo de Birillo was?

 

[BroDeal]

As for Fuentes the blood bag with the name Clasicomano (Luigi) has always been rumored to be Cancellera.

Canc did not start doing well in the classics until after Fuentes used the classicoman name. It does not make sens that it would be Cancellara.

I always thought it was probably Bettini, who in the aftermath of OP said he would retire rather than be subjected to a DNA test.

 

[basque1]

Some people always knew he was very talented. So it opens the door for "huge natural talent" theory. But then if the others were doped, then it is impossible for FC to ....

Here is the comment by Aldo Sassi:

Yeah, Sassi was putting it in terms of weight: "For the Tour, he'd have to lose six kilograms, of which only two or three would be muscle, so that he doesn’t lose his power," Sassi said. "If he weighs about 70kg, like Wiggins does, I'm sure he'd be competitive. He'd be an Indurain type of rider."

http://img02.beijing2008.cn/20080813/Img214537706.jpg
(I haven't figured out how to get a pic to show up in this window yet.)
Anyone else scratching their heads and wondering where Cancellara has NINE POUNDS of fat & unused muscle to lose?????

 

[Escarabajo]

Yeah, Sassi was putting it in terms of weight: "For the Tour, he'd have to lose six kilograms, of which only two or three would be muscle, so that he doesn’t lose his power," Sassi said. "If he weighs about 70kg, like Wiggins does, I'm sure he'd be competitive. He'd be an Indurain type of rider."

http://img02.beijing2008.cn/20080813/Img214537706.jpg
(I haven't figured out how to get a pic to show up in this window yet.)
Anyone else scratching their heads and wondering where Cancellara has NINE POUNDS of fat & unused muscle to lose?????

In that picture? Nowhere.

 

[basque1]

Or, considering Fuentes is Spanish, mano is derived from the Spanish word for hand...

Or, considering Spanish is a Romance, or Latin-based language, mano ("hand") is from the Latin root "manus," meaning, of course, "hand." ("Mania" is the Greek root of "crazy.")

 

[JPM London]

In that picture? Nowhere.

He wouldn't be allowed to race naked, would he? Or no shoes maybe? That wouldn't give him the whole nine pounds, I agree, but would be a start...

By the way, is he actually directly bad in the mountains? For the last couple of years he has mainly been used to make the peloton explode just before and as they hit the mountains and so has given full throttle then.

I have a feeling that the mental work he has done this year has given quite a lot of extra belief in just how good he is and is one of the reasons he's capable of what we have seen these past few weeks. I see no problem in him being better at the tour this year, but obviously not anywhere near contention.

And no, "mental work" is not me implying "preparation" or "program".

 

[BikeCentric]

Pretty sure Canc won the Tour de Suisse last year or the year before so no he's surely not terrible in the mountains. It's just that he's huge and therefore can't hang with the little skinnies like Contador.

I agree that it would not be a smart career move for him to try to win a GT at this point; he should stick to what he's good at, TT's and one-days where he's dominant.

 

[Katzenbacker73]

Ethics Does Matter

I am very surprised at all the individuals here using the rationale that doesn’t matter if Fabian may have doped; that is a very corrosive attitude! Once you have lost truth, you have lost EVERYTHING! Truth is not relative; it is absolute. It is wrong to behave unethically whether it is sport, business or whatever your professional endeavor.

The reality is that not everybody in pro cycling does dope, some like David Millar have made a conscious decision that regardless where they place they are going to compete clean! One of the greatest rides in cycling history is the 2001 Tour De France Team Time Trial when the Crédit Agricole team upset all the big time doping operations of their time. Crédit Agricole’s Roger Legeay was so adamantly opposed to doping and would not even permit Johnthan Vaughters to use medicine to cure a bee sting to the eye so that he could finish the 2001 Tour! Vaughters was upset at the time, but he learned a valuable lesson.

What Fabian did should have everyone with a conscience nervous. He appears to be a nice guy, but what happened on Sunday does not add up. He dropped the 10 strongest men in the race who were doing essentially a TTT for final 50km to try and catch him. He was gaining a minute every 10km! That is the reverse of the mathematical equation used on the flat stages of grand tours to determine if the break will be caught by the peleton!

Making the matter more difficult to believe was the strong headwinds Fabian encountered in those 50km!

Fabian has always operated in a gray area as far as his mathematical outputs, and Sunday’s ride did not do anything to clear that up. I know he is supposedly tested by Dr Damsgaard, but Saxso Bank is also the same team that gave Frank Schleck a slap on the wrist for getting caught transferring $10,000 to Dr Fuentes according to ESPN. It would behoove Fabian to do as Wiggins did after last years Tour, and release his numbers for everyone to review.

 

[Willy_Voet]

You don't add up.

- If he was putting 1 min into them every 10 km over 50 km he would have won by 5 min.

- He could release numbers, but they mean nothing: My hematocrit is 37 and I rode 50 mph for an hour.

See, I just made up numbers. They mean nothing.

- You obviously didn't read Boonen's quotes, either. They were not doing a TTT. And Fabian doesn't have jets up his ****.

- PR is not a GT. How many GT stages have 60% of the field finishing outside the time limit? GT rules don't apply here.

 

[Kender]

What Fabian did should have everyone with a conscience nervous. He appears to be a nice guy, but what happened on Sunday does not add up. He dropped the 10 strongest men in the race who were doing essentially a TTT for final 50km to try and catch him. He was gaining a minute every 10km! That is the reverse of the mathematical equation used on the flat stages of grand tours to determine if the break will be caught by the peleton!

hmm that goes against what was commented on by boonen himself. it was more like a ITT for boonen who was already a spent force from attacking all the time. the others that were with him were racing for second. FC was racing for the win. the other riders used boonens strength and when he had nothing left they dropped him

I'd be more worried about the fact that if everyone thinks FC is doped up to the gills, then how come Contador seems to be able to compete in ITT's with the worlds best time trialer. AC beat FC by 3 seconds in the tour last year over a pretty flat 40km course (1 cat 3 climb 3.7km long + 31km flat). sure it was nearing the end of the tour, but if FC was doped then he should be recovering well. Strange how you don't really see much AC is on dope talks

 

[Escarabajo]

..

- He could release numbers, but they mean nothing: My hematocrit is 37 and I rode 50 mph for an hour.

See, I just made up numbers. They mean nothing.

...

Only in your dreams. So numbers don't mean anything, yet you trust engineering everyday of your life when you go over bridges, take elevators, etc, etc. Don't be silly. Numbers mean a lot. They are not the ultimate methods but it means something.

In fact I think you were doped when you did your 50 mph with your 37% crit level. Weren’t you?

 

[Willy_Voet]

Only in your dreams. So numbers don't mean anything, yet you trust engineering everyday of your life when you go over bridges, take elevators, etc, etc. Don't be silly. Numbers mean a lot. They are not the ultimate methods but it means something.

In fact I think you were doped when you did your 50 mph with your 37% crit level. Weren’t you?

. <------- this is the point

You missed it.

 

[knewcleardaze]

Only in your dreams. So numbers don't mean anything, yet you trust engineering everyday of your life when you go over bridges, take elevators, etc, etc. Don't be silly. Numbers mean a lot. They are not the ultimate methods but it means something.

In fact I think you were doped when you did your 50 mph with your 37% crit level. Weren’t you?

Facts are stupid things.
Ronald Reagan

 

[Katzenbacker73]

I'd be more worried about the fact that if everyone thinks FC is doped up to the gills, then how come Contador seems to be able to compete in ITT's with the worlds best time trialer. AC beat FC by 3 seconds in the tour last year over a pretty flat 40km course (1 cat 3 climb 3.7km long + 31km flat). sure it was nearing the end of the tour, but if FC was doped then he should be recovering well. Strange how you don't really see much AC is on dope talks

Kender buddy, I have some documents for you to add to the Alberto Contador "Clean Rider" file:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2007/news/story?id=2956131

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/24072009/58/tour-de-france-contador-dodges-doping-query.html

 

[Katzenbacker73]

You don't add up.

- If he was putting 1 min into them every 10 km over 50 km he would have won by 5 min.

Hey Willy buddy, I am going to go REAL SLOW for you:

Fabian attacks 49km from the finish…

10km into the attack (39km from the finish) he gained 50 seconds.

20km in the attack, he gained an additional 55 seconds for a total of 1:45.

30km in the attack, he gains an additional 47 seconds for a total of 2:32

37.5km into the attack, he gains an additional 33 seconds for a total of 3:05! If want to get technical that is 49 second gain every 10km!

He then rides conservatively in the final 11.5km, showing the cameraman an angel in his pocket and blowing kisses to his daughter.

What is next Willy? Do you want to argue that there is not 60 minutes in a hour?

 

[Escarabajo]

I timed the last 20km based on the 10 metre countdown clock. FC's time for the last 20km was 32:22 or an average speed of 37.075kmh. I would say the average speed for the last 40km was close to 38kmh.

That is more likely. For a moment I got worried with the >40 km/hr average on the last hour.

So let's see if we have the following data:

Weight: 80 kg
Weather: Cold
Assume:
Drafting: 84% of time
Racing and Climbing position: 16%
Wind: Moderate (4-7 km/hr head. Not so critical when drafting)
Distance: 262 km
Time: 6 hr 25 min 56 sec
Average last hour: 38 km/hr
Total Power Output: 285 Watts (Power Meter)

First I matched this power to set the wind strength and other rolling resistances tune in. Then I made the split between the time drafting and the time racing solo and I got the following:

Power last 40 km: ~483 Watts (~6 watts/kg).

The only problem that I have with this calculation is that I did not take into account accelerations from low speed to high speed, which should not be critical for the classics anyway. But I think I am underestimating the power in the last sections because of the cobbles and steep inclines which overall will take more energy than calculated with averages. Therefore Cancellara would be clearly over 6 kg/watts.

Any thoughts?

 

[Race Radio]

Canc did not start doing well in the classics until after Fuentes used the classicoman name. It does not make sens that it would be Cancellara.

I always thought it was probably Bettini, who in the aftermath of OP said he would retire rather than be subjected to a DNA test.

There were two Classicomano in Fuentes files. One had the name (Luigi) next to it the other did not