Cannondale getting dropped in the new era of cycling

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Re:

Beech Mtn said:
Sky are killing cycling. Why would anybody want to come in and sponsor one of the small or mid-level WT teams just to get crushed by the Sky train at the biggest races? The sport is too lopsided which hurts the competition and suspense level.

This I agree with. Cookson has been asleep at the wheel. The only investors on the sport are wealthy oil producing nations like Astana, UAE and then Sky. There will always be some French teams but they won’t win a hell of a lot.

Garmin/Cannondale had two years without a win, I’m surprised they lasted as long as the did. I’m even more surprised that JV didn’t call out the obvious doping at Sky. He is an animated and opiniated character but he dropped the ball on Sky. I get the sense BMC will drop next.
 
Jul 22, 2015
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So JV gets bashed for his association with doping in the past yet also for his team not winning.

Can't have it both ways guys.

I wouldn't be surprised if he indeed isn't involved or privy to doping and his riders need to find their own supply.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re:

jahn said:
So JV gets bashed for his association with doping in the past yet also for his team not winning.

Can't have it both ways guys.

I wouldn't be surprised if he indeed isn't involved or privy to doping and his riders need to find their own supply.
Slipstream sports have 2 or 3 monuments and a GT win. Not too bad.

JV's internal testing wont allow outside supply :lol:
 
Re:

Benotti69 said:
Fmk ripping JV's business acumen a new one on twitter, don't forget the snakeoil salesman has an MBA (1st class hons iirc) and comparing the number of sponsors JV burned through with other WT owners.

Funny stuff.

https://twitter.com/fmk_RoI/status/901831679601504256
Have to say I agree with FMK; JV has churned through so many sponsors and mergers, of teams, all of which end up leaving, he has even managed to close down a women's team.

I think Doug Ellis pulled the pin on the Ponzi scheme and JV needs a way to fund his lifestyle.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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I would like to understand the reported 100 full-time employees by Cannondale. 28 of them are riders. Plus a general manager, directors sportif, mechanics, soigneurs, a bus driver, a cook, a press officer, a couple office staff, a doctor or two, a general gofer, somebody to work at the service course. That seems more like 60, maybe 70 people. I know they need folks for the US scene and folks for Europe, but 100 still seems like a lot to be all full-time employees, particularly for a small budget team. Can some of these folks be seasonal/part-time workers, or double-up on jobs?

I suppose now with WT races being run overlapping each other so much that causes a need for more staff. Seems like poor teams would be better off as ProConti, but I guess that doesn't attract the sponsorship as easily as having that guaranteed Tour invite.

Then you have Sky with the truck full of 9 separate washer-dryers, or Bora (and before them Leopard-Trek) with not only a kitchen truck, but a dining room on wheels too. Crazy.
 
Re:

Beech Mtn said:
I would like to understand the reported 100 full-time employees by Cannondale. 28 of them are riders. Plus a general manager, directors sportif, mechanics, soigneurs, a bus driver, a cook, a press officer, a couple office staff, a doctor or two, a general gofer, somebody to work at the service course. That seems more like 60, maybe 70 people. I know they need folks for the US scene and folks for Europe, but 100 still seems like a lot to be all full-time employees, particularly for a small budget team. Can some of these folks be seasonal/part-time workers, or double-up on jobs?

I suppose now with WT races being run overlapping each other so much that causes a need for more staff. Seems like poor teams would be better off as ProConti, but I guess that doesn't attract the sponsorship as easily as having that guaranteed Tour invite.

Then you have Sky with the truck full of 9 separate washer-dryers, or Bora (and before them Leopard-Trek) with not only a kitchen truck, but a dining room on wheels too. Crazy.

Yes but none of those other teams have the expense of a JV :cool:

That's expensive!
 
Sep 6, 2016
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I'm sure Cannondale will be replaced with a very clean team run by a benevolent oligarch. Who knows, maybe Vino will run it :D
 
May 26, 2010
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thehog said:
A ride in the car with JV :lol:



Vaughters did a Masters in Business and he is reduced to the begging bowl. FFS!!! Pathetic.

If anyone had half a brain they would be bringing their bikes with motors to car companies and telling them this is the future for city transport and jump on board. :D
 
Let me see,hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

Donate $50 to the Red Cross or some other group in a small attempt to help the human suffering in South Texas, or donate the money to JV's pyramid scheme so that he can continue his "clean crusade".

Moral dilemma for sure!
 
It's pretty simple really - Garmin started with a team of hardened USPS dopers, and a bunch of people who'd already been caught for doping (and therefore were desperate and hence cheap) like Millar. These guys knew the score and delivered results without tripping any alarm bells. Gradually they retired and were replaced with a bunch of fresh faced kids (because again, kids are cheap - noticing a trend?) who didn't hit the heights of the previous hardened dopers for some mysterious reason that will never be determined. Then he panicked and hired Uran/Rolland, who were already heading into the last stretch of their careers, Uran's Tour podium this year notwithstanding.

Personally I think it was all over the day the Cannondale merger happened - they had a real identity as Garmin, and they should have done whatever it took to hang onto that. I still see lots of Garmin tops on sportives, but never ever ever Cannondale ones.
 
Jeremy Whittle:
But if Vaughters and his team can pull off this survival act - and it now looks more possible than this time last week - there is a need to reassert those principles, loud and clear, at a time when anti-doping voices appear to be increasingly thin on the ground.

That's the dream. The reality is that modern cycling is run on hard cash and that sponsors, particularly those that are not already within the sport, have to be seduced. And that seduction process is probably a lot easier for a team with a simple, uncomplicated image.
 
What's that about clouds and silver linings?
Joerg Jaksche@jaksche
Great new personal revenue model for MBA cycling managers:
1. sign riders for 100
2. tell them there is no sponsor
3. resign them for 50
12:40 AM - 2 Sep 2017
I'm sure this is not happening, even cheerleaders like VN wouldn't stand quietly buy while something like this was going on, not even those nut-jobs in The Outer Line could sit silently were riders to be being abused in such a manner. Mr Jaksche, he is merely being hypothetical, that's all.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re:

fmk_RoI said:
What's that about clouds and silver linings?
Joerg Jaksche@jaksche
Great new personal revenue model for MBA cycling managers:
1. sign riders for 100
2. tell them there is no sponsor
3. resign them for 50
12:40 AM - 2 Sep 2017
I'm sure this is not happening, even cheerleaders like VN wouldn't stand quietly buy while something like this was going on, not even those nut-jobs in The Outer Line could sit silently were riders to be being abused in such a manner. Mr Jaksche, he is merely being hypothetical, that's all.
I guess Mr Jaksche hit the bullseye. On some Italian pro conti teams riders have to provide their own wages in a lot of cases from 'self-sponosroship'.

That JV is crap at the pro WT cycling business is evident in the amount of sponsors he goes through and that he has had to merge with other teams a few times.

Never mind that recently he has been shown to be a hypocrite about resigning from the sport should doping happen on his team.
 
May 26, 2010
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Cant see Vaughters getting someone to sponsor a team in a sport where hidden motors are a thing.
 
Jul 20, 2015
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Re:

Beech Mtn said:
I would like to understand the reported 100 full-time employees by Cannondale. 28 of them are riders. Plus a general manager, directors sportif, mechanics, soigneurs, a bus driver, a cook, a press officer, a couple office staff, a doctor or two, a general gofer, somebody to work at the service course. That seems more like 60, maybe 70 people. I know they need folks for the US scene and folks for Europe, but 100 still seems like a lot to be all full-time employees, particularly for a small budget team. Can some of these folks be seasonal/part-time workers, or double-up on jobs?
Multiply that time 3. Youll have at least 2 full time WT squads racing in different places, and occasionally there will be 3 full squads racing in different countries or continents.
Add to that the US and EU based service course, and the marketing and logistics, and, and ,
You could easily get to 100. They might not all be FTE's, but they easily employ 100 people, as does every WT team.

Its easy enough to not like JV, and I dont disagree with a lot of the criticism he gets, but they seem to be pretty reasonable with their spending. I know a few of the guys currently riding for him, as well as a few Washington Redskins players, and the financial differences are striking.
 
Jul 20, 2015
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Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
fmk_RoI said:
What's that about clouds and silver linings?
Joerg Jaksche@jaksche
Great new personal revenue model for MBA cycling managers:
1. sign riders for 100
2. tell them there is no sponsor
3. resign them for 50
12:40 AM - 2 Sep 2017
I'm sure this is not happening, even cheerleaders like VN wouldn't stand quietly buy while something like this was going on, not even those nut-jobs in The Outer Line could sit silently were riders to be being abused in such a manner. Mr Jaksche, he is merely being hypothetical, that's all.
I guess Mr Jaksche hit the bullseye. On some Italian pro conti teams riders have to provide their own wages in a lot of cases from 'self-sponosroship'.

That JV is crap at the pro WT cycling business is evident in the amount of sponsors he goes through and that he has had to merge with other teams a few times.

Never mind that recently he has been shown to be a hypocrite about resigning from the sport should doping happen on his team.
As Ive said previously, there is plenty to criticize JV about, but his dealing with sponsors doesnt seem to be one of them, in my opinion. I would suggest that with his reliance on US based sponsors, he is at an immediate disadvantage. Just take a look at the domestic professional cycling scene- to the extent that it even exists. Its a damn miracle that anyone pays people to race bicycles in the US at this point. From my vantage point, it seems that corporate sponsors have figured out that there are lots of better ways to see ROI, than to sponsor a pro cycling team. No amount of snake oil and glad-handing is going to change that reality- especially with the amount of data available from digital marketing campaigns in 2017. This isnt a JV issue, this is a "no one in the US gives a hoot about pro cycling" issue.

Buy-a-ride is really common in motorcycle racing, (which I know very well) and apparently many forms of car racing as well. The business model is roughly similar, which leads to this sort of thing, I think.
In domestic superbike racing, its rare to see a non-factory team go an entire season without changing sponsors around, changing riders, folding up and going away entirely, you name it. Just last week, Meen Motorsports basically withdrew from the MotoAmerica SBK series with only a few rounds left in the season. leaving the riders, and support staff with nothing. This is not the first time this has happened.
World Superbike is only marginally better in this regard. Ive seen dozens of teams fold mid-season, with little regard for the staff or riders.
MotoGP is slightly better than that, but then MotoGP has revenue sharing from the organizers, without which the grids would be barren. Even then, or the 22 full time riders, I would guess that less than half get paid to ride, while the rest all bring money to the teams for a bike and a spot on the grid.
 
May 26, 2010
28,144
2
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Re: Re:

.Froomestrong. said:
Benotti69 said:
fmk_RoI said:
What's that about clouds and silver linings?
Joerg Jaksche@jaksche
Great new personal revenue model for MBA cycling managers:
1. sign riders for 100
2. tell them there is no sponsor
3. resign them for 50
12:40 AM - 2 Sep 2017
I'm sure this is not happening, even cheerleaders like VN wouldn't stand quietly buy while something like this was going on, not even those nut-jobs in The Outer Line could sit silently were riders to be being abused in such a manner. Mr Jaksche, he is merely being hypothetical, that's all.
I guess Mr Jaksche hit the bullseye. On some Italian pro conti teams riders have to provide their own wages in a lot of cases from 'self-sponosroship'.

That JV is crap at the pro WT cycling business is evident in the amount of sponsors he goes through and that he has had to merge with other teams a few times.

Never mind that recently he has been shown to be a hypocrite about resigning from the sport should doping happen on his team.
As Ive said previously, there is plenty to criticize JV about, but his dealing with sponsors doesnt seem to be one of them, in my opinion. I would suggest that with his reliance on US based sponsors, he is at an immediate disadvantage. Just take a look at the domestic professional cycling scene- to the extent that it even exists. Its a damn miracle that anyone pays people to race bicycles in the US at this point. From my vantage point, it seems that corporate sponsors have figured out that there are lots of better ways to see ROI, than to sponsor a pro cycling team. No amount of snake oil and glad-handing is going to change that reality- especially with the amount of data available from digital marketing campaigns in 2017. This isnt a JV issue, this is a "no one in the US gives a hoot about pro cycling" issue.

Buy-a-ride is really common in motorcycle racing, (which I know very well) and apparently many forms of car racing as well. The business model is roughly similar, which leads to this sort of thing, I think.
In domestic superbike racing, its rare to see a non-factory team go an entire season without changing sponsors around, changing riders, folding up and going away entirely, you name it. Just last week, Meen Motorsports basically withdrew from the MotoAmerica SBK series with only a few rounds left in the season. leaving the riders, and support staff with nothing. This is not the first time this has happened.
World Superbike is only marginally better in this regard. Ive seen dozens of teams fold mid-season, with little regard for the staff or riders.
MotoGP is slightly better than that, but then MotoGP has revenue sharing from the organizers, without which the grids would be barren. Even then, or the 22 full time riders, I would guess that less than half get paid to ride, while the rest all bring money to the teams for a bike and a spot on the grid.
JV basing his business on US sponsorship for a mostly European sport is nonsensical. No wonder he burns through so many sponsors and team mergers. Maybe he should've done his MBA in Europe since that is where he needs to attract long term sponsors.

As for the comparison of motorsports and cycling. Motorsports has a much bigger reach and bigger richer corporations backing it. It also relies on a riders ability rather than born with physical attributes and how well they react to PEDs. Not dissing motorsports especially motogp, some super talented riders doing great stuff on 2 wheels.

I don't disagree with the model of bringing sponsorship at a lower level* but it is a bit much at pro conti and WT (not that i know of it happening at WT level yet)

As far as i understand the F1 driver model, most drivers get sponsored at a lower level (formula ford etc) and relinquish a percentage of their earnings if they make it to F1. So the people get a return on investing in a driver.
 
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