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Over the moon? He's out past Saturn with the wins-todate tally now into nearly double figures. Break out the bunting!thehog said:
Re: Re:
It also didn't hurt that only about 4-5 riders on Drapac are at roughly WT level (although a couple of the younger guys are close, granted.)StryderHells said:
I think you have got that back the front. Talansky finished fifth in the Vuelta and Formolo was ninth so Cannondale had two in the top 10 which is pretty good for them. TJVG finished nowhere in the Tour about 25th I think, and did not finish the Vuelta. Not exactly inspiring for the sponsors but that is Talansky's best result for quite a while while TJVG seems to have just collapsed career wise. Even his DS said he was in a slump which is a mild way of putting it. Rolland finished 50th in the Vuelta. Not a Pitbull in sight.
Well, that's their best result since Formolo's win in Giro. Seriously, it's amazing how they can make everyone worse after they signed with them, I look forward to Vanmarcke in RVV/PR.
Since I think things have been getting steadily worse on the doping front since at least ~2011, and especially since ~2014, I have to entertain the possibility that Cannondale is lagging behind, medically, either by design or for some other reason. If that's the case, it would be pretty short-sighted to make fun of them - although in that case JV would deserve the scorn for not changing his public speech.
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If it is the former, then JV really should be rounding on the other teams and the UCI, because his words currently about a cleaner sport etc, just make him look really incompetent at his job.
Agree, I've said similar things a few times before regarding their attrocious results. Either Cannondale is a genuinely clean-ish team in a largely dirty peloton; or their management and coaches are just absolutely useless.hrotha said:
If it is the former, then JV really should be rounding on the other teams and the UCI, because his words currently about a cleaner sport etc, just make him look really incompetent at his job.
It's my belief that JV uses Cannondale to promote and advance JV, much more so than the riders.
I suspect his real goal is a seat at the big boys' table - sports bureaucracy - where the money is.
I suspect his real goal is a seat at the big boys' table - sports bureaucracy - where the money is.
Re:
Would have to agree. He certainly set up a nice little fiefdom for himself, wherby using the "dedicated to anti-doping" mantra he can run a team without ever actually having to win anything. I'm not sure why he gets any airtime but he is the go to guy when anything controversial occurs in the sport.
Beech Mtn said:
Would have to agree. He certainly set up a nice little fiefdom for himself, wherby using the "dedicated to anti-doping" mantra he can run a team without ever actually having to win anything. I'm not sure why he gets any airtime but he is the go to guy when anything controversial occurs in the sport.
Re:
Why do you think that? I mean those dates in particular for it getting worse.
I think I'm a bit clueless on the minutiae of recent doping compared to you Clinic regulars.
hrotha said:
Why do you think that? I mean those dates in particular for it getting worse.
I think I'm a bit clueless on the minutiae of recent doping compared to you Clinic regulars.
I think one could have chosen 2013 instead of 2014 just as well, but in both years climbing speeds went up. It's not long now before climbing speeds are up to and over that of post epo-test and pre Puerto.
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I just wish they were doing it on a different bike. I happen to really like Cannondale's product and he's doing the brand no favors at all.
thehog said:
I just wish they were doing it on a different bike. I happen to really like Cannondale's product and he's doing the brand no favors at all.
Re:
Interesting. I had a general impression that nothing changed much in speeds over all of the epo years, from the start to now, regardless of what tests were in place.
Netserk said:
Interesting. I had a general impression that nothing changed much in speeds over all of the epo years, from the start to now, regardless of what tests were in place.
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Because JV makes his snakeoil schtick interesting and very quotable and with his mantra of "dedicated his life to anti-doping" plus he takes a lot of unfair kudos for his part in Armstrong's bust.
Cannondale get very little riders on podiums and that must be hard to take.
But hey look at Cofidis, they back a team that hardly does much either.
thehog said:
Because JV makes his snakeoil schtick interesting and very quotable and with his mantra of "dedicated his life to anti-doping" plus he takes a lot of unfair kudos for his part in Armstrong's bust.
Cannondale get very little riders on podiums and that must be hard to take.
But hey look at Cofidis, they back a team that hardly does much either.
Re:
When did the doping front ever get better for it to get worse?
Non of the scandals appears to have affected the levels of doping in truth. Some teams may have reigned it in after 50% level or Festina, but we know that big teams carried on regardless.
My guess if JVs team is behind on doping for a few reasons, he cant afford to get caught, he cant upset the apple cart of WT teams having spat in the soup against Armstrong and breaking omerta or he is stuck on old school methods and certain riders have to add to it to get results.
One of JVs big selling points was internal team testing to be done by Caitlin yet we know in 2009 the team never saw Wiggins except at races! So take anything JV says with a pinch of salt.
hrotha said:
When did the doping front ever get better for it to get worse?
Non of the scandals appears to have affected the levels of doping in truth. Some teams may have reigned it in after 50% level or Festina, but we know that big teams carried on regardless.
My guess if JVs team is behind on doping for a few reasons, he cant afford to get caught, he cant upset the apple cart of WT teams having spat in the soup against Armstrong and breaking omerta or he is stuck on old school methods and certain riders have to add to it to get results.
One of JVs big selling points was internal team testing to be done by Caitlin yet we know in 2009 the team never saw Wiggins except at races! So take anything JV says with a pinch of salt.
Things obviously got better with the 50% hematocrit rule, and again with the French longitudinal tests, and then again with the EPO tests, and then with the homologous transfusions test, and then with the biological passport. Each of those improvements took the teams and riders some time to adapt, and until they did their programs were less effective that what went before. After they adapted, however, and considering the development or discovery of new PEDs and methods, they could outdo their predecessors, if constant antidoping pressure was not applied (and it almost never is).
Since the biological passport there hasn't been any other comparable breakthrough in antidoping, and at least since 2011 I think there have been fewer tests. Under Cookson, there's also been less of a focus on antidoping as a whole.
So yes, I think it's not only absolutely fair to say but also pretty obvious that things got better and then got worse again. Doping and antidoping are not static. Almost nothing is.
Since the biological passport there hasn't been any other comparable breakthrough in antidoping, and at least since 2011 I think there have been fewer tests. Under Cookson, there's also been less of a focus on antidoping as a whole.
So yes, I think it's not only absolutely fair to say but also pretty obvious that things got better and then got worse again. Doping and antidoping are not static. Almost nothing is.
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Princeton economics mathematician who won a nobel for his economics theory in economics Economics Game Theory and it can basically be distilled into 'triangulation' like tax minimisation. nothing changes, just the appearance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_game_theoryBenotti69 said:
Inverted logic - or what
A team that can't win and we are still
hammering them in a Clinic thread?
A team that can't win and we are still
hammering them in a Clinic thread?
Re:
I dont think things got better, they changed and adjusted their methods, programs etc, but nothing got better.
hrotha said:
I dont think things got better, they changed and adjusted their methods, programs etc, but nothing got better.
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