Cannondale getting dropped in the new era of cycling

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Big Doopie said:
I'll wait and see. If the French teams do well at Dauphine and then at the Tour that will be good. I still am hopeful that races in France will be cleaner than elsewhere because of the laws and the political will - completely lacking in other countries like Spain (fact).
Except ASO doesn't seem to mind the doping and the French Government was ready to ignore their own doping laws to win an Olympic bid. It's not good.

Anecdotally, it seems one or two post-Festina French team operators are/were a bit more ethical.
 
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Big Doopie said:
Yeah, I was just dead wrong about jumping to conclusions on Talansky today.:eek::eek::eek:

I'll wait and see. If the French teams do well at Dauphine and then at the Tour that will be good. I still am hopeful that races in France will be cleaner than elsewhere because of the laws and the political will - completely lacking in other countries like Spain (fact).
except when sarkozy willingly does armstrongs dirty work for him. (fact)

:rolleyes:
 
DirtyWorks said:
Except ASO doesn't seem to mind the doping and the French Government was ready to ignore their own doping laws to win an Olympic bid. It's not good.

Anecdotally, it seems one or two post-Festina French team operators are/were a bit more ethical.
Certainly not Bernaudeau's team :D

Post-doping Cofidis would be heading for extinction if it wasn't for a long-term sponsorship. I wonder how long it takes before the jump back on board.
 
People tend to have too much of a static view on doping. There's reason to think French cycling was a lot cleaner as a general rule, but for the past 2-3 years there have been many signs that things have changed.
 
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they also lacked the talent. perhaps only sylvain chavanel was worthy of a tour podium if he had a good medical program. the rest like titi voeckler, they had little talent. tho i thought sylvain's brother had speed as a sprinter. no other frenchie has caught my eye.


the french go to estonia to get their talented cyclists
 
hrotha said:
People tend to have too much of a static view on doping. There's reason to think French cycling was a lot cleaner as a general rule, but for the past 2-3 years there have been many signs that things have changed.
Really? Like what specifically?

It would seem that their slight uptick in performance (predominantly in French races where the testing is better and the fear of police action greater) seems to mirror others being at least slightly restricted by the bp. Rolland's win on l'Alpe was only thanks to a more human looking Clentadopucci and Sanchez. And based on that you really have to wonder whether Clentadopucci would have been even top ten in a grand tour if all things were clean. What a weak-a$$ fraud.
 
Big Doopie said:
Really? Like what specifically?

It would seem that their slight uptick in performance (predominantly in French races where the testing is better and the fear of police action greater) seems to mirror others being at least slightly restricted by the bp. Rolland's win on l'Alpe was only thanks to a more human looking Clentadopucci and Sanchez. And based on that you really have to wonder whether Clentadopucci would have been even top ten in a grand tour if all things were clean. What a weak-a$$ fraud.
Like the several drug ring busts in French amateur cycling, the shady doping/not-doping incidents at Europcar, the increase in anomalous values in the French longitudinal tests, ASO's change of attitude towards doping in the late 00s, and some good ol' positives. It's not just their performance - although the sight of the Europcar train defending Voeckler was ridiculous by itself.
 
Ferminal said:
Are you saying Chavanel doesn't currently have a good medical program?
Thank you. Thank you for bringing this up.

Why do you think he rides for a non-French team?

Exactly my point.

Remember jalabert and virenque. Refused to ride for French teams after Festina. And for a while they were the only French riders who were competitive.

There is absolutely no denying that French riders on French teams have been at a major disadvantage compared to other nationalities. Fact.

I guess you guys all believe that since Festina French teams no longer know how to train. That's what Armstrong use to say. Fascinating that you should parrot his views. Next you'll be saying that its a level playing field and all the French riders are whiners. Lol.
 
hrotha said:
People tend to have too much of a static view on doping. There's reason to think French cycling was a lot cleaner as a general rule, but for the past 2-3 years there have been many signs that things have changed.
The French have had their own very of the bio passport since 2000.

That's the difference.
 
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Ferminal said:
Are you saying Chavanel doesn't currently have a good medical program?
he has a medical program. they all do. but not a top shelf i wanna win the GC tour program. fabrice salanson mighta spooked him
 
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hrotha said:
Like the several drug ring busts in French amateur cycling, the shady doping/not-doping incidents at Europcar, the increase in anomalous values in the French longitudinal tests, ASO's change of attitude towards doping in the late 00s, and some good ol' positives. It's not just their performance - although the sight of the Europcar train defending Voeckler was ridiculous by itself.
remi di gregorio had a brilliant dauphine in about 2007. a russian rider had the same breakout performace about a year or two after.

brailsford was interested in buying di gregorio
 
Apr 21, 2012
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There's been many french dopers ("chaudières" en français ;) ) since 1999 even with the beginning of their pre-BP :
- Jalabert, exile in Switzerland, ONCE/CSC, possible client of Fuentes
- Virenque, exile in Switzerland, Polti/Domo
- Hervé, constant denials after Festina, Polti, blood infusions in his restaurant by Fuentes during first rest day of the 04 TdF
- Moreau, suspicion Index 7, Festina, unusual performances over Ventoux and french championship in 2007, strange withdrawal from the tour in 2008, just before the first positive for EPO-Cera

IMO several suspect performances from :
- Voeckler
- Rolland
- Chavanel
- Gadret
- Fédrigo
- Casar
- Moncoutié (yes, Moncoutié :p )
- Dessel
- Goubert
- Vogondy
- Kern

And a few idiots like
-Lhotellerie
-Houanard
-DiGrégorio

So, the french are clearly not clean, but probably cleaner... than the british, the italians and of course the spanish...
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Jeannie Longo, her husband, her husband's clients, and he who must not be smeared. Case closed ;)
 
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hrotha said:
Mentioning Hervé is just unfair. He's above everyone else's level of dope.
You must be right :D

Anyway, I think he's quite in the same category as Virenque

But Jaja and Moreau were not far behind.
(remember the Dauphiné in 2007, Moreau crushing Vino and Kash on Ventoux, that was so obvious doping)
 
He was also strong to Tignes at the end of the first week in July, drove that chase group more than anyone (Mayo jumped away though :eek: ). Would have been interesting to see how he went if not for crashing or whatever happened. There was never any consideration of him being clean was there, even post-98?
 
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Ferminal said:
There was never any consideration of him being clean was there, even post-98?
Except from this (from the famous Andreu/Vaughters IM exchange) : "Cyclevaughters: believe me, as crazy as it sounds - Moreau was on nothing. Hct of 39%"

Considering Moreau's dodgy performances (following LA in 2000 in the TdF, 2001 prologue, 2006, 2007) I dont believe it !
 
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Gregga said:
Except from this (from the famous Andreu/Vaughters IM exchange) : "Cyclevaughters: believe me, as crazy as it sounds - Moreau was on nothing. Hct of 39%"

Considering Moreau's dodgy performances (following LA in 2000 in the TdF, 2001 prologue, 2006, 2007) I dont believe it !
in jv we trust dont
 

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