Canucks: How 'bout our Ryder eh?

[Steel4Ever]

I'll give you 15 years worth of podiums:
(bold = proven "non-natural" and/or links to thereof)

2010
1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana
2 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank
3 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank

2009
1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana
2 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank
3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana

2008
1 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Team CSC - Saxo Bank
2 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence - Lotto
3 *Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank

2007
1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Discovery Channel
2 Cadel Evans (Aus) Predictor - Lotto
3 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Discovery Channel

2006
1 *Oscar Pereiro (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears
2 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile
3 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC

2005
1 Lance Armstrong (USA)
2 Ivan Basso (Ita)
3 Jan Ullrich (Ger)

2004
1 Lance Armstrong (USA)
2 Andreas Klöden (Ger)
3 Ivan Basso (Ita)

2003
1 Lance Armstrong (USA)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger)
3 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz)

2002
1 Lance Armstrong (USA)
2 Joseba Beloki (Spa)
3 Raimondas Rumsas (Ltu)

2001
1 Lance Armstrong (USA)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger)
3 Joseba Beloki (Spa)

2000
1 Lance Armstrong (USA)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger)
3 Joseba Beloki (Spa)

1999
1 Lance Armstrong (USA)
2 Alex Zulle (Swi)
3 Fernando Escartin (Spa)

1998
1 Marco Pantani (Ita)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger)
3 Bobby Julich (USA)

1997
1 Jan Ullrich (Ger)
2 Richard Virenque (Fra)
3 Marco Pantani (Ita)

1996
1 Bjarne Riis (Den)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger)
3 Richard Virenque (Fra)

1995
1 Miguel Indurain (Spa)
2 Alex Zülle (Swi)
3 Bjarne Riis (Den)

 

[Barrus]

Allright, shall we now leave that discussion for the clinic and go back to the topic at hand?

ANyway concerning Ryder, he's a very good rider, but I won't consider him a contender for a podium placing in a GC. In smaller stage races, sure, in classics sure, but not in a GC.

 

[ingsve]

RH didn't just pop out of some 3 yr cycling school or track program. Take a look at his development and accomplishments. He is the real deal.

I never said he wasn't the real deal. What he did he did by his own strength. What I was saying is that I doubt he will be able to match that performance again in a GT.

Has he had a couple hundred thousand thrown at him in the wind tunnel yet? Has he had financial support to train exactly like he needs to be a team leader and win at events like the spring classics and later in a GT?

But will he get that? Will Garmin want him to be a main GT guy now? They seem to be willing to still focus on VdV as their main Tour hope and Ryder is one of their best hopes in classics.

What do you like to see in a GT? Riders who help their team sprinters in a lead out train in the early part of the a GT? Riders breaking way by themselves? Hard men pounding through pave? Riders attacking into breakaways in the mountains? Climbers finishing in the top 5 on the hardest Queen's stage? A competitor that does all that with very little team support and definitely NO assistance in the high mountains? Well RH did. Tell me what other top 10 Rider did that this year? If Ryder maintains his tenacity and thirst for season long racing he will do well.

What does this have to do with anything I said? I wasn't saying that he shouldn't ride GTs or that he shouldn't try to get another GC finish. What I said was that I doubt that he will succeed and that he is more likely to get results in other races. I didn't say anything about what races he shouldn't do.

Age of 30 too old? No sure about that. I could make a list of podium finishers in the last 10 yrs from all GTs but you could do the same. I think you'd see there is a significant component of over 30 riders holding those medals.

I never said anything about 30 being too old. In fact most of the top riders are normally over 30. What I was talking about is that once you go passed 30 it's very difficult to improve physiologically. You will soon start to deteriorate a little and your training will mostly be to maintain your current level rather than building on it further. To be a consistent top 10 finisher Ryder would have to improve his condition over this year or he will be in the same kind of on the edge struggle in the mountains as he had this year and that is not really sustainable in the long run. To be consistent you need to follow more easily rather than fighting to follow. He did fight well this year and it gave him a good result but repeating that kind of hard fought result will he hard without getting better and that was my point.

 

[Neworld]

I never said he wasn't the real deal. What he did he did by his own strength. What I was saying is that I doubt he will be able to match that performance again in a GT.

Well we agree to disagree. I think you're wrong and my point is still valid. I purport that an athlete like Ryder, who has not only been riding from his teen year but has been winning at all levels of athleticism has an equal chance to reproduce or improve on this years performance for those reasons. With team support, which he clearly didn't have this year, and some time in a wind tunnel, better GT prep etc... he may actually improve his GT success. Will he get all that and actualize a similar performance next year? Who knows and maybe in the end you'll be right. But I am saying he has a good chance.

What does this have to do with anything I said? I wasn't saying that he shouldn't ride GTs or that he shouldn't try to get another GC finish. What I said was that I doubt that he will succeed and that he is more likely to get results in other races. I didn't say anything about what races he shouldn't do.

It doesn't. It is de novo commentary... bloggers are allowed to add information 'outside of the box' right? I was asking you and anyone reading what they like about a GT rider. You didn't answer me and thats cool. I think Ryder road in a manner that for me personally was very exciting, courageous and worthy of where he ended up overall.

I never said anything about 30 being too old. In fact most of the top riders are normally over 30. What I was talking about is that once you go passed 30 it's very difficult to improve physiologically. You will soon start to deteriorate a little and your training will mostly be to maintain your current level rather than building on it further. To be a consistent top 10 finisher Ryder would have to improve his condition over this year or he will be in the same kind of on the edge struggle in the mountains as he had this year and that is not really sustainable in the long run. To be consistent you need to follow more easily rather than fighting to follow. He did fight well this year and it gave him a good result but repeating that kind of hard fought result will he hard without getting better and that was my point.

I don't think 30 is too old to improve on, you do. You may be right. There are more than one way to 'improve' a GT result...as I am sure you are already aware and so I won't waste your time. In Ryder's situation think about all the energy he could save next year if he didn't attack so much as in 2010. If he follows your suggestion to just consistently 'follow' he will save heaps of energy over three weeks. He now knows he can climb with the best where definite volumes of time-loss occurs.

Lets see what he can do.

NW

 

[Steel4Ever]

Sixth (6th) in San Sebastian.

Not bad.

Keep those Top 10's coming!



(better than breaking a bone in every race you enter a la VDV!)

 

[marinoni]

Well we agree to disagree. I think you're wrong and my point is still valid. I purport that an athlete like Ryder, who has not only been riding from his teen year but has been winning at all levels of athleticism has an equal chance to reproduce or improve on this years performance for those reasons. With team support, which he clearly didn't have this year, and some time in a wind tunnel, better GT prep etc... he may actually improve his GT success. Will he get all that and actualize a similar performance next year? Who knows and maybe in the end you'll be right. But I am saying he has a good chance.




It doesn't. It is de novo commentary... bloggers are allowed to add information 'outside of the box' right? I was asking you and anyone reading what they like about a GT rider. You didn't answer me and thats cool. I think Ryder road in a manner that for me personally was very exciting, courageous and worthy of where he ended up overall.




I don't think 30 is too old to improve on, you do. You may be right. There are more than one way to 'improve' a GT result...as I am sure you are already aware and so I won't waste your time. In Ryder's situation think about all the energy he could save next year if he didn't attack so much as in 2010. If he follows your suggestion to just consistently 'follow' he will save heaps of energy over three weeks. He now knows he can climb with the best where definite volumes of time-loss occurs.

Lets see what he can do.

NW

Well, I feel kind of obligated as a Victorian and Canadian to put in my two cents. I agree that he can improve his GT riding as you suggested. He still needs to learn the essential truth of modern GT success. The winner isn't the best, he's the guy that does the absolute least possible amount of racing. It isn't about balancing ferocious attacks with clever tactics and getting in the right breaks. It's about treating as much of the race as possible like it's a training ride and letting nobody's win prestigious mtn stages.
Or... he can concentrate on winning one-day races where the riders, at least occasionally, still actually ya know, RACE THEIR F***ING BIKES!

The less po'd version? I think he can improve but not as far as the podium. And if not then what's the point? He should concentrate on the one-day races. He's shown he has real potential to win races like LBL and Amstel. That said, it's time to start doing that. 6th at San Sebastian is fine and he was in there with some pretty stellar company, but yeah it's time to start winning a few.

 

[Steel4Ever]

That said, it's time to start doing that. 6th at San Sebastian is fine and he was in there with some pretty stellar company, but yeah it's time to start winning a few.

And the ONLY other Garmin teammate to finish San Seb came in dead LAST!
(Cozza)

I hope he got a GIANT raise in his recent contract dealings.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Hesjedal did what he could, he could have only won today if the chasing group had some more support. But I think Hesjedal was already pretty much dead after the second climb of Arkale.

 

[ansimi]

I'm sure he'd want it pointed out that he doesn't actually turn 30 until December.

 

[Willy_Voet]

I hope he doesn't become another one of these guys who has an unexpected back-half top 10 in a GT then spends the next few years trying to transform himself into a true GC guy.

Agreed, we don't need anymore Leipheimers in the peloton.

RH has only a few yeas left to rack up some wins in big events. I imagine he could do well in week-long or 10 day PT events (TdS, P-N, etc) as well as the classics. By all means, his team should let him ride the TdF for himself, but maybe target taking yellow then defending as long as possible.

 

[marinoni]

I hope he doesn't become another one of these guys who has an unexpected back-half top 10 in a GT then spends the next few years trying to transform himself into a true GC guy.

I just don't think he's ever going to be a GT podium guy, but I think he could really do something in the classics if he made them his major focus. He seems like the kind of guy who could potentially perform well in any of them, save MSR.

I wish I'd read your post before making mine because it explains my point better. As for Canadians, this was sort of the case with Steve Bauer. He got that 4th in 88 and I think he started believing he was a GC rider. With his physique it was never going to happen. In his last year as an amateur he was the only Nor American rider who could offer some competition to Phinney in the sprints. If he'd developed that potential he might have won more races, at least maybe make up that tire-width to Planckaert at PR.

 

[Steel4Ever]

Ryder, The Great White North Hope!

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Heres the thing- Ryder had a great TDF and anyone who is familiar with Ryder's talent is not surprised. How Ryder will do in 2011 depends on Ryder. All the speculation is just that, speculation.

Ryder's a great athlete and a tough guy - and will do us Canucks proud.

We just need to teach him how to talk in those interviews eh! Give him a toque and some elocution lessons!

 

[180mmCrank]

I read somewhere today he is comming home to Victoria on Sept 4th and there was going to be some kind of party... does anyone know anymore about this?

 

[ansimi]

I read somewhere today he is comming home to Victoria on Sept 4th and there was going to be some kind of party... does anyone know anymore about this?

Let's see if I can manage to post a link:

http://www.timescolonist.com/sports/Victoria+Ryder+Hesjedal+hero+welcome/3438663/story.html

The location given is a downtown hotel so it might be a boring media thing.

 

[royalpig180]

Podium a GT? No chance in hell.

as far as GTs are concerned I doubt he'll reach the top 10 again.

If he could even repeat his TDF performance at the same level (no need to improve) he could definitely podium at a Giro or Vuelta against a more mediocre field. Certainly not at the TdF though, I agree with you there.

 

[Teddy Boom]

As for Canadians, this was sort of the case with Steve Bauer. He got that 4th in 88 and I think he started believing he was a GC rider. With his physique it was never going to happen. In his last year as an amateur he was the only Nor American rider who could offer some competition to Phinney in the sprints. If he'd developed that potential he might have won more races, at least maybe make up that tire-width to Planckaert at PR.

Bauer's wiki page is atrocious

 

[180mmCrank]

Let's see if I can manage to post a link:

http://www.timescolonist.com/sports/Victoria+Ryder+Hesjedal+hero+welcome/3438663/story.html

The location given is a downtown hotel so it might be a boring media thing.

Thanks for this

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If he could even repeat his TDF performance at the same level (no need to improve) he could definitely podium at a Giro or Vuelta against a more mediocre field. Certainly not at the TdF though, I agree with you there.

The problem is like Wiggins' one though, and Vande Velde's too; they will struggle to podium against the Tour de France opposition, but the parcours of the Tour and the climbs they use there are much more suited to them than the ones of the Giro and Vuelta, which are more suited to the Sastres of this world.

 

[Master50]

In 1988 didn't Steve get in an early breakaway that gave him a huge GC lead? I thought he was in a stage that gained close to 30 minutes? He defended that lead into the Alps and held on to 4th. I should know this since I went to that tour and even met Steve in Lourdes after the stage to Luz-Ardiden.
Had Ryder gotten that same kind of lead we might have seen a Canadian tour winner as we saw Ryder is quite competent in the mountains.
While Steve has achieved the highest Tour finish I think Ryder had the greatest Tour performance for a Canadian.
The greet event is organized by local cyclists and sponsors a program that Ryder supports for developing young cyclists.

 

[Teddy Boom]

In 1988 didn't Steve get in an early breakaway that gave him a huge GC lead?

The year of the big lead and the long time in yellow was 1990. Looks like the lead was only ever about 10min. He finished that tour respectably, but well out of the top 10.

1988 was different. It was all about consistent performances. I don't know if that was Leipheimer style or Vinokourov style, but it was certainly nothing so fluky as a 30 minute gift.

 

[Master50]

The year of the big lead and the long time in yellow was 1990. Looks like the lead was only ever about 10min. He finished that tour respectably, but well out of the top 10.

1988 was different. It was all about consistent performances. I don't know if that was Leipheimer style or Vinokourov style, but it was certainly nothing so fluky as a 30 minute gift.

Well there goes that argument! Steve goes back to the best Canadian performance in the Tour. Ryder is the best since 1988.

 

[TheDude]

I like Ryder, but I'm wondering about his role at Garmon. If Haussler comes over I thik they are going to use him for climbing-sprints. Ryder may become a break-away "specialist" only in how he is given opportunities.

 

[marinoni]

I hope he doesn't become another one of these guys who has an unexpected back-half top 10 in a GT then spends the next few years trying to transform himself into a true GC guy.

I just don't think he's ever going to be a GT podium guy, but I think he could really do something in the classics if he made them his major focus. He seems like the kind of guy who could potentially perform well in any of them, save MSR.

I pretty much agree. I do think he can do better if he goes into the Tour as the team GC guy, but podium? That is a tough club to crash. So yeah, I'd rather see him go all out in the classics then see what's possible in the Tour. Why bother sacrificing your whole season to finish 5th at the Tour? Frankly, I am absolutely sick to death of the Tour and how it increasingly dominates the sport.

 

[Red Rick]

I think we know the anser by know