Cavendish stronger on the road than in testing says Axel Merckx...

[andy1234]

I remember reading an interview with Kareem Abdul Jabbar where he talked about the same phenomenon. Wayne Gretzky too. In the more intense moments of competition, they were able to "slow things down." Kareem mentioned his working with Bruce Lee in the same interview, although I don't remember if he exactly attributed that ability to something he learned from The Dragon.

It's a phenomenon called "flow".
It's when something has been practiced so completely, that the subconscious takes care of the event, almost removing the need for conscious thought.

I guess it almost short circuits the skill process.

Most elite sportspeople have probably experienced it at some point, and I imagine the more successful athletes can reproduce it more than others.

 

[Granville57]

It's when something has been practiced so completely, that the subconscious takes care of the event, almost removing the need for conscious thought.

Although I'm not so sure that it correlates to "practice," in that many people experience similar in car accidents, etc.

If one had the ability to channel such a state of being at will, that would most desirable. Interesting stuff indeed.

 

[martinvickers]

Although I'm not so sure that it correlates to "practice," in that many people experience similar in car accidents, etc.

If one had the ability to channel such a state of being at will, that would most desirable. Interesting stuff indeed.

It's surprisingly common, in all sorts of weird and even mundane parts of life.

How mundane? Bear with me, tedious anecdote ahead.

In my youth I used to do lots of "College Bowl" style quizzes; I was far from the best in terms of amount of recall, mediocre really, but what I was, and what got me on to my college teams, and winning competitions in those teams, was buzzer speed. For a golden period of about three years, I was vicious on buzzer speed.

Every team seemed to have a 'speed specialist'. I was ours, and I was very fast, for a while anyway.

If we all knew an answer, I would win the 'buzzer race', honestly, nearly 9 times out of ten - i can genuinely only remember one guy who really got the better of me, and that only one year of the three.

Completely idiot savant skill; no real idea why i could do it, and sadly, little to no practical application in 'real life' - but in those silly quiz buzzer rounds, i genuinely found, weirdly, the whole thing really slowed down - i almost felt like i could look around at people, weigh up answers, have a sneaky yawn and still buzz first.

sometimes the shows would air on local TV (it was a tv sponsored event most years) and the speed, in retrospect, would be extreme - but the sensation of it was anything but.

We had a brilliant 'coach/lecturer' who was absolute king of these things, and his explanation was that there was a 'short circuit' - that i was one of these people whose 'finger', or 'lizard brain' knew that i knew an answer, before my conscious brain had actually formed it - the brain then did the retrieval of the actual info in the time it took the quiz master to pause and call my name. And that almost subconscious 'intuition' time was so much quicker than actually waiting until the answer was formed in my head that it gave the sensation of acres of time.

It's kinda like a 'gunslinger' gene.

You can see it in great footballers, great cyclists, really any sport; where the tactical, decision making has become, or was always, almost completely instinctual. Now ally that with the physical quirks that give Cav an advantage to begin with, and you get the Cav we have.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I'm very curious about this, as I experience exactly the same thing in a mass sprint. And the thing is that I'm pretty much a mediocre sprinter at the lower categories (had some nice results in uphill finishes).

I always thought this was because relative to each other we move at the same speeds. This suggests it's more than that.

Any other sprinters who can comment on this? Is this a common feeling or is it indeed something special?

It's called "flow". If you do a search on it it will go into more detail. Reminiscent of The Matrix. I think it may also have something to do with adrenaline release.

ETA: hat tip to Andy1234.

 

[42x16ss]

It's called "flow". If you do a search on it it will go into more detail. Reminiscent of The Matrix. I think it may also have something to do with adrenaline release.

ETA: hat tip to Andy1234.

Sir Donald Bradman often claimed to have the same effect when facing fast bowlers, even guys as quick as 160km/h.

Bradman also had his reflexes and reaction times tested and had results that were not even above average, yet somehow he was the greatest cricketer ever.

 

[blackcat]

Sir Donald Bradman often claimed to have the same effect when facing fast bowlers, even guys as quick as 160km/h.

Bradman also had his reflexes and reaction times tested and had results that were not even above average, yet somehow he was the greatest cricketer ever.

even jeff thomson was not 160kmph. his era, they would have struggled to max out at 140kmph.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

even jeff thomson was not 160kmph. his era, they would have struggled to max out at 140kmph.

Lillee was hitting 100mph wasn't he? And the stumps. Pretty sure I saw that one summer on the telly.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Bradman also had his reflexes and reaction times tested and had results that were not even above average, yet somehow he was the greatest cricketer ever.

Greatest batsman not greatest cricketer.

 

[42x16ss]

even jeff thomson was not 160kmph. his era, they would have struggled to max out at 140kmph.

Jeff Thomson was clocked at over 160kmh towards the end of his career during a bowl off that included Michael Holding, Dennis Lillee, Imran Khan and others.

Harold Larwood and Gubby Allen were clocked at over 155kmh in the 1930's but the clocking technology was obviously not great. Frank Tyson was clocked at similar speeds too.

 

[42x16ss]

Greatest batsman not greatest cricketer.

Close enough. IMO his only competition was Gary Sobers but we are straying OTT.

 

[blackcat]

Lillee was hitting 100mph wasn't he? And the stumps. Pretty sure I saw that one summer on the telly.

you can just watch them, and tell rule of thumb where they were.

too young to see lillee in his speed heyday, and usually just clips of him post back injury and new technique.

jeff thomson was fast. marshall and some windies were fast. gillespie could get it up there pre injuries. alan donald fast. shoaib fast. the young injured nsw guy fast. the two ****stanis in the 90s were fast. rarely anyone pushed 150, except in perfect conditions. lee and acthar the exceptions. i think they were faster than jeff thomson. definitely faster than dennis. about 20kmph faster than anything bradman would have faced.

 

[blackcat]

Jeff Thomson was clocked at over 160kmh towards the end of his career during a bowl off that included Michael Holding, Dennis Lillee, Imran Khan and others.

Harold Larwood and Gubby Allen were clocked at over 155kmh in the 1930's but the clocking technology was obviously not great. Frank Tyson was clocked at similar speeds too.

i contest those numbers. sorry to be a pain in the ****

 

[42x16ss]

i contest those numbers. sorry to be a pain in the ****

Fair enough.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/****stan/content/story/111087.html

Whether he will be the first to break the elusive mark is yet to be seen, but no other bowler bar Jeff Thomson has been recorded bowling as fast in match conditions.

Thommo's world record stands at 160.45 kph and was recorded on equipment which is rated more accurate than that which is in use today. Those high speed cameras would no doubt be in use nowadays except for the time delay in receiving the results. This was the only 'match day' known in which Jeff Thomson's bowling speeds were recorded, but it is generally regarded that he bowled faster still and that he is as fast as any man who held a cricket ball before him or has held one since.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Larwood

Larwood has been widely acknowledged as the greatest fast bowler of his generation and, according to his Wisden obituary, was "one of the rare fast bowlers in the game's long history to spread terror in opposition ranks by the mere mention of his name".[1][12] Timing technology was primitive in his day, but various tests indicated speeds of between 90 and 100 mph (140 to 160 km/ph).[

 

[blackcat]

chastened

but blackcat not humbled like armstrong

 

[Dear Wiggo]

chastened

but blackcat not humbled like armstrong

or as busy in the bathroom, right?

 

[42x16ss]

chastened

but blackcat not humbled like armstrong

And don't forget that Larwood was basically trying to kill Bradman during bodyline and he still "only" averaged high 50's!

It seems that the very greatest sports stars over the years just have a unique ability to "do things in their own time" despite not having the physical characteristics of their peers. Gretzky was one, Bradman another. To hear Cavendish say it makes me think he may be the same.

I wonder if guys like Federer, Pele, Jordan, Slater etc have the same experience?

 

[blackcat]

or as busy in the bathroom, right?

thats a low blow Dear Wiggo. need to swat up on your bedside manner

 

[blackcat]

And don't forget that Larwood was basically trying to kill Bradman during bodyline and he still "only" averaged high 50's!

It seems that the very greatest sports stars over the years just have a unique ability to "do things in their own time" despite not having the physical characteristics of their peers. Gretzky was one, Bradman another. To hear Cavendish say it makes me think he may be the same.

I wonder if guys like Federer, Pele, Jordan, Slater etc have the same experience?

read about Kelly Slater. he used to bodysurf and also just sit on the beach and study the waves. said in same article, in good surf, the best come back to the field, but if it is a messy day in the surf, the best can make the waves perform for them

 

[blackcat]

unlike others, i have no doubt Federer and MJ doped. but they had innate talent. I dont think if EVERYONE was on bread and water, Fed could have won so many slams, certainly he could, could have got to double figures. but if the game ground him down through workloads and four and five setters, he would not be losing because of his game, but because of his physical endurance. Like Armstrong managed to ameliorate all the variables away in the Tour, to make it about 3 HC finish ascents. And two chronos. With support, Fed made it just about ability. And his was FAR and away above others if that was the only measurement. but, on bread and water, MANY more intangibles can affect the game.

 

[42x16ss]

unlike others, i have no doubt Federer and MJ doped. but they had innate talent. I dont think if EVERYONE was on bread and water, Fed could have won so many slams, certainly he could, could have got to double figures. but if the game ground him down through workloads and four and five setters, he would not be losing because of his game, but because of his physical endurance. Like Armstrong managed to ameliorate all the variables away in the Tour, to make it about 3 HC finish ascents. And two chronos. With support, Fed made it just about ability. And his was FAR and away above others if that was the only measurement. but, on bread and water, MANY more intangibles can affect the game.

That is the coolest thing (IMO) about sports like Cricket and Tennis that have such a high skill factor. No PED on earth gives somebody the hand-eye coordination of Bradman, Jordan, Federer or Gretzky or the technique (the most important thing for a quick bowler) of Michael Holding or Ray Lindwall.

 

[Retro Trev]

Fair enough.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/****stan/content/story/111087.html

Whether he will be the first to break the elusive mark is yet to be seen, but no other bowler bar Jeff Thomson has been recorded bowling as fast in match conditions.

Thommo's world record stands at 160.45 kph and was recorded on equipment which is rated more accurate than that which is in use today. Those high speed cameras would no doubt be in use nowadays except for the time delay in receiving the results. This was the only 'match day' known in which Jeff Thomson's bowling speeds were recorded, but it is generally regarded that he bowled faster still and that he is as fast as any man who held a cricket ball before him or has held one since.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Larwood

Larwood has been widely acknowledged as the greatest fast bowler of his generation and, according to his Wisden obituary, was "one of the rare fast bowlers in the game's long history to spread terror in opposition ranks by the mere mention of his name".[1][12] Timing technology was primitive in his day, but various tests indicated speeds of between 90 and 100 mph (140 to 160 km/ph).[

What made Larwood exceptional was his accuracy, control and the low trajectory, he was able to skim the bouncers so they came through faster than a taller bowlers trajectory. Also the bodyline field placement which is banned today pressured the batsmen.

Larwood had no intent to kill anyone, he took many wickets hitting the stumps, often behind the batsmen's legs. The Australians were using their pads to protect the wicket, abusing the leg before rule, which was changed by MCC when the 'Bodyline' field was banned. Larwood was asked to bowl bodyline and complied. Larwood always maintained his bowling was fair and within the rules at the time. Bradman still averaged 50 in the bodyline series although his average is 99. It was the mere mortal batsmen that really suffered against bodyline.

Larwood never bowled with intent to injure or kill anyone. Jardine however may well have used his bowlers and fielders with intent to harm Australians.

 

[ebandit]

............gentlemen

................gentlemen .........i'm english and cricket is a fine game but

............why here?

scientists state that bumble bees should not be able to fly............so much

for figures............just watch cav in action

Mark L

 

[wansteadimp]

TNo PED on earth gives somebody the hand-eye coordination of Bradman, Jordan, Federer or Gretzky or the technique (the most important thing for a quick bowler) of Michael Holding or Ray Lindwall.

Mikey Holding may not have been on PEDS but I seriously doubt he would have passed the doping control.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Close enough.

Not really, no.

 

[King Boonen]

What made Larwood exceptional was his accuracy, control and the low trajectory, he was able to skim the bouncers so they came through faster than a taller bowlers trajectory. Also the bodyline field placement which is banned today pressured the batsmen.

Larwood had no intent to kill anyone, he took many wickets hitting the stumps, often behind the batsmen's legs. The Australians were using their pads to protect the wicket, abusing the leg before rule, which was changed by MCC when the 'Bodyline' field was banned. Larwood was asked to bowl bodyline and complied. Larwood always maintained his bowling was fair and within the rules at the time. Bradman still averaged 50 in the bodyline series although his average is 99. It was the mere mortal batsmen that really suffered against bodyline.

Larwood never bowled with intent to injure or kill anyone. Jardine however may well have used his bowlers and fielders with intent to harm Australians.

Obvious bias, bodyline bowling was in line with the rules at the time as well.