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- Jan 3, 2012
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Definitely get Renshaw, who proved once again today he is about tactics, skill and wit, rather than speed. OPQS clearly have enough speed on the team but they need the experience at being a lead out (and Renshaw arguably has the most in the world) and a tactition in the sprints. And skip out Giro or just do half.
If anyone could get the stats in the amount of days Greipel, Cav and Kittel individually raced this year it could be interesting to compare.
If anyone could get the stats in the amount of days Greipel, Cav and Kittel individually raced this year it could be interesting to compare.
- Jul 5, 2011
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- Aug 28, 2012
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- Apr 7, 2011
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He doesn't have a train problem, he is simply facing a guy who is better than him,now. That's all.
- Mar 10, 2009
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Bavarianrider said:
Well I would believe that if he still had the same setup as he had with HTC all dedicated to him but if you look at this year alone his train was a cluster $*#* most of the time. Lefevere seems to be listening to Aldag and trying to setup something similar for Cav in 2014. Do agree some good competition for Cav this year though, hopefully next year will see more of the same.
- Jul 22, 2011
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And by never I mean reduced chances of doing so.Geraint Too Fast said:
May I add though, that is a perfect final km. Winding, bumpy, narrow but not dangerously so. It subverts the power by numbers the stupidly long and large boulevards we have nowdays so favor, and is ripe to attacks like that. Every flat finish should be like that
Cute. Is that guy still alive?MatParker117 said:
- Jul 5, 2011
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Broth3r said:
But that tactic has to be used rarely because it only works if it's unexpected. I'd actually say Renshaw has more chance of getting away with it if he's leading out Cav.
Bavarianrider said:
Let's wait until next year, when Cavendish will not be worn out after a hard Giro. This Tour he could barely outsprint someone like Sagan by a bike, whereas he normally puts several bike lengths into Sagan.
Kittel was really on top of his game this year, he was pretty good on the hills and didn't have any trouble in the high mountains. We'll have to wait for another year to see if he can be that good again, or worse (or better of course).
- Jul 25, 2012
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Any team with Cav in has to do the majority of the chasing, that's just the way it works. This year that meant Argos and Lotto swamping them in the final few km's and OPQS having nothing left.
Next year they need to make sure they have at least two guys who can go up the road (Chavanel and Uran?) and can challenge for a stage or two and put the pressure on the teams that are built purely for one rider (Argos and possibly even Lotto) to do the chasing. OPQS need to use their talented riders to their advantage.
Next year they need to make sure they have at least two guys who can go up the road (Chavanel and Uran?) and can challenge for a stage or two and put the pressure on the teams that are built purely for one rider (Argos and possibly even Lotto) to do the chasing. OPQS need to use their talented riders to their advantage.
- Aug 28, 2012
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King Boonen said:
For example Stage 13 of the tour Cav sent Terpstra on the attack, Cannondale's guy had to chase him down and Cav used Sagan as a lead out to win the stage.
In stage 6 and 10 they had Veelers sitting in nomansland, if anything makeng things harder to win the stage by increasing the gap between Kittel and Greipel. A very fine example of how not to do a proper leadout.Gogojv said:
In stage 1 the best leadout came from Lotto, Greipel was out with a mechanical though, so they got lucky there.
Stage 5 win by Cavendish, they tried to leadout Degenkolb, now that didn't quite go as planned did it?
stage 6 see above, stage 10 dito, here they were lucky that Greipel screwed up his last 50m.
Stage 12 they did what they could without Veelers, but Cavendish got delivered perfectly and against any other rider he most likely would have won that sprint.
Despite all that, I think that Argos did a good job considering they are not half as experienced as the guys at Omega and Lotto. Great team spirit and everyone was willing to give his utmost.
Coming back to Cav's leadout issue, well, whoever his leadout-men will be in the future we now know that pushing 1500 watts like on the Champs-Elysées this year, which in his own words usually made him win by several bike-lengths, will probably not be enough anymore.
- Jun 7, 2011
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I thought that Argos did a pretty good job all things considered and they'll probably improve a bit over the next year. They're going to find other teams chasing them down more from now on in, though.
I don't think that the OPQS lead-out is a disaster either, although they can certainly improve. I suspect that Cav having done the Giro and the residual effects were a bigger issue than the lead-out. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he gives the Giro a miss next year or drops out after the first few stages given the Tour is starting in Britain. If there's any chance of his taking yellow I imagine that will be a priority.
I don't think that the OPQS lead-out is a disaster either, although they can certainly improve. I suspect that Cav having done the Giro and the residual effects were a bigger issue than the lead-out. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he gives the Giro a miss next year or drops out after the first few stages given the Tour is starting in Britain. If there's any chance of his taking yellow I imagine that will be a priority.
My thoughts:
OPQS main objevtive next year should be to deliver Cav at the highest speed possible. I mean really, really fast. He had only two such sprints in this Tour, stage 5 and Paris. He won stage 5, and he was by far the fastest in Paris, closing almost three bike lengths on Kittel. Even though he came from behind, it was pretty impressive to watch.
As far as I can see, Cav has the best top speed, but Kittel thrumps him in acceleration. The best example was on stage 12 (?), where Kittel was overtaking Cav in the final 100m. This was not a very fast (for TDF) sprint, about 60-65 kph, which allowed Kittel to use his 1900 watts of acceleration to take down Cav.
If Cav is launched at 65+ kph, the acceleration rate will be much lower than at 60 kph, and the guy with the best top end usually wins. That would be Cav IMO. He is so much more aerodynamic, and at 70 kph this will give him a half kph or so on Kittel, even though Kittel has 300 watts higher peak.
Another example of Kittels extreme jump and acceleration, is the stage in Paris. He put almost a bike length on Greipel and Cavendish the second he got out of the saddle.
It really doesn't matter what kind of sprint it is, Kittel will outjump the other sprinters. Starting the sprint at very high speeds will help (but he will still have the best jump, ie Paris), so will starting the sprint from the front, and so will not riding the Giro.
OPQS main objevtive next year should be to deliver Cav at the highest speed possible. I mean really, really fast. He had only two such sprints in this Tour, stage 5 and Paris. He won stage 5, and he was by far the fastest in Paris, closing almost three bike lengths on Kittel. Even though he came from behind, it was pretty impressive to watch.
As far as I can see, Cav has the best top speed, but Kittel thrumps him in acceleration. The best example was on stage 12 (?), where Kittel was overtaking Cav in the final 100m. This was not a very fast (for TDF) sprint, about 60-65 kph, which allowed Kittel to use his 1900 watts of acceleration to take down Cav.
If Cav is launched at 65+ kph, the acceleration rate will be much lower than at 60 kph, and the guy with the best top end usually wins. That would be Cav IMO. He is so much more aerodynamic, and at 70 kph this will give him a half kph or so on Kittel, even though Kittel has 300 watts higher peak.
Another example of Kittels extreme jump and acceleration, is the stage in Paris. He put almost a bike length on Greipel and Cavendish the second he got out of the saddle.
It really doesn't matter what kind of sprint it is, Kittel will outjump the other sprinters. Starting the sprint at very high speeds will help (but he will still have the best jump, ie Paris), so will starting the sprint from the front, and so will not riding the Giro.
Jhan1908 said:
The riders from behind are always faster, they are riding in the lead riders slip stream. The rider who jumps first always looks to have the best acceleration, they start accelerating first. If you swapped the order of the sprinters as Veelers is swinging off I think you'd have seen very close the same sprint with the order predetermined by the leadout.
- Nov 26, 2012
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to say that argos has a better sprint train is utter rubbish imho. They don't have proper team coordination. Any train that they form gets easily disturbed. Their successful leadout trains were more a product of luck and otehr factors, than pure leadout capabilities.
Also, sad to point out, but argos were wheelsucking for the most part. remember they were not worried about the intermediate sprint points, and they were not interested in bringing down breaks. This implies that the team doesn't have any sort of belief in their strength.
Probabaly, they should recruit the recently retired O'Grady as their leadout coach in the off-season training camps.
sidenote: i am a big cav, and hence opqs fan.
Also, sad to point out, but argos were wheelsucking for the most part. remember they were not worried about the intermediate sprint points, and they were not interested in bringing down breaks. This implies that the team doesn't have any sort of belief in their strength.
Probabaly, they should recruit the recently retired O'Grady as their leadout coach in the off-season training camps.
sidenote: i am a big cav, and hence opqs fan.
- Aug 28, 2012
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Cobblestones at the tour may of helped solve Cav's leadout problem:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-boonen-wants-to-return-to-tour-de-france
So with Petacchi, Renshaw and now Tom Boonen to come in Cav's train when the tour lines up in Leeds could be:
Kwiatkowski, Stybar, De Gendt, Bakelants, Martin, Boonen, Petacchi, Renshaw, Cav.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-boonen-wants-to-return-to-tour-de-france
So with Petacchi, Renshaw and now Tom Boonen to come in Cav's train when the tour lines up in Leeds could be:
Kwiatkowski, Stybar, De Gendt, Bakelants, Martin, Boonen, Petacchi, Renshaw, Cav.
- Aug 16, 2011
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Scary strong team right there, can see the potential for Cav more then making up for this years tour with those guys at his disposal.
And with Uran wanting to do the Tour I foresee Lefevere having a hard time deciding what type of tour team he'll go with. Does he go with a power packed team designed around leading out Cav (and send Uran to Giro-Vuelta) or a more balanced team geared toward both Cav and Uran.
And with Uran wanting to do the Tour I foresee Lefevere having a hard time deciding what type of tour team he'll go with. Does he go with a power packed team designed around leading out Cav (and send Uran to Giro-Vuelta) or a more balanced team geared toward both Cav and Uran.
- Aug 28, 2012
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del1962 said:I though Uran was riding the tour which woul dgive you an 11 man team
forgot to take one guy off.
- Aug 28, 2012
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Afrank said:
Boonen's experience should finally give the train a good road captain in the Bernie Eisel mould and Martin, Petacchi & Renshaw will obviously take Cav to the final 250 meters the rest will just crush breaks.
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