"Change Cycling Now"

[peterst6906]

Problem is that by doing so you also damage yourself, and that for Rabo is the issue. If they can come out the big hero and "change cycling now" they certainly would, but there is much past dirt that will stick and be damaging.

[cynic]They are a bank, there's little that cycling can do to damage their image more than the last 5-6 years of the banking industry has already done.[/cynic]

As a big bank in The Netherlands, they don't face much of a financial hit from being part of the change cycling momentum.

My personal view, based on the culture of banking in Northern Europe, which is relatively conservative, is that their withdrawal from sponsorship was their version of a public protest at the state of mens professional cycling and when things change, they'll come back again.

I don't see them releasing anything more damaging than what they've already done.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

@johanbruyneel
"@JohanBruyneel: A bunch of ******s r gonna meet in London 2 change cycling. But why is @vaughters not on the list? He should be leading that group..."

via twitter a few min ago...
wow


*d.o.u.c.h.e.s

Small reaction from JB, nothing serious but perhaps an indication that he is not prepared to lie down like a dog.

 

[guncha]

All of this is crap. Nothing is going to change in cycling, nothing changed in 1999, 2007 etc.; only blood dopers will be able to win TDFs. I've had a surreal feeling watching TDF presentation - on one hand LA was bashed while other proven dopers were cheered. ASO needs money, they wanted LA in past, they want Contador, Wiggins, Andy etc. now.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

It is the UCI Congress who determine Pat's future.[/B]

All they can do with Hein is strip him of his honorary presidency for life. He has no position to be re-elected.

Pat will be working the telephones in the lead up to the Annual Congress that votes on his re-election. If he can't get the numbers he will withdraw from re-election.

Media has less or no influence of "club" elections. It is based on personal relations and what sweeteners that can be promised to maintain those relations.

Only a directive from IOC could sway elections, eg., UCI must be seen to be reformed to continue in IOC family.

I agree with you in part, but would describe media influence on the elections as indirect rather than non existent. If media attention is sufficiently damaging to congress members credibility AND motivates clubs within the federation to put pressure on from below......some will figure out that what worked for them in the past is no longer working.

It will be interesting to see if any of the decide it's in their (conflicting) business interests to jump on the change bandwagon.

 

[Avoriaz]

More importantly, someone actually needs to oppose Pat when it comes to reelection. They didn't last time

 

[thingswelike]

I wonder if Johan's tweet prompted this:
LeMond, Vaughters, Boyer and Parisotto join Change Cycling Now group
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...Cycling+News+&+Race+Results+|+VeloNation.com)

 

[theyoungest]

I am sure several teams have people who can blow up UCI. That's why LA was so confident, and why Bruyneel is still so cocky. Problem is that by doing so you also damage yourself, and that for Rabo is the issue. If they can come out the big hero and "change cycling now" they certainly would, but there is much past dirt that will stick and be damaging. Whether senior management is able to assess this risk in full will determine whether Rabo will come out and have a go. The rider survey just published shows the extent of Omerta they may have to battle before they can truly assess how much past liability risk they carry.

What people outside of Holland have mostly missed is the complete sh.t storm Rabobank faced in the Dutch press the past few years, everything sucked, all their riders sucked, every doping case was made all about Rabobank. At some point there's no reason for a sponsor to still want to be involved.

They explicitly stated that the problem isn't that they don't trust their current team and the people involved, they just didn't think they'd be able to get results in a doped up cycling world (these last words are my own).

Interestingly also that Rabo declined Pat's offer for a one year sponsorship deal.

What's interesting about it? They want out, but they just respect the contracts they had already signed.

What is interesting is the crusade against the UCI that Dutch cycling union president Marcel Wintels has gone on. Almost like it's an order from Rabobank, who are and will remain the sponsor for the cycling union.

 

[Carols]

http://www.facebook.com/ChangeCyclingNow

http://www.changecyclingnow.org/

Help build the momentum!!!

 

[sniper]

I wonder if Johan's tweet prompted this:
LeMond, Vaughters, Boyer and Parisotto join Change Cycling Now group
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...Cycling+News+&+Race+Results+|+VeloNation.com)

vaughters? i'll be damned.
he claims cycling is clean already. so what does he want to change?
bad news for the CCN initiative, good news for Garmin's PR.

 

[hrotha]

According to Biciciclismo, there's 4 guys who will be part of Change Cycling Now as former pros. LeMond, Jaksche, Vaughters and... Bugno. WTF?

vaughters? i'll be damned.
he claims cycling is clean already. so what does he want to change?

The UCI. Obviously.

 

[sniper]

The UCI. Obviously.

I've never heard him say anything in that direction. Have you?

For him to join the movement is suspect, to say the least, though far from surprising of course. Smells, again, like PR.

 

[GJB123]

I've never heard him say anything in that direction. Have you?

For him to join the movement is suspect, to say the least, though far from surprising of course. Smells, again, like PR.

Moehaha, LOL, ROFLMAO, you don't give up do you. Do the letters OCD mean anything to you.

 

[Grandillusion]

According to Biciciclismo, there's 4 guys who will be part of Change Cycling Now as former pros. LeMond, Jaksche, Vaughters and... Bugno. WTF?

The UCI. Obviously.

"and...Bugno. WTF?". Exactly what I thought too. More re-positioning from Gianni then...an astute politician who sees which way the wind is blowing. Slime. I bet there'll be a few raised eyebrows at his "address".

 

[sniper]

Moehaha, LOL, ROFLMAO, you don't give up do you. Do the letters OCD mean anything to you.

Phil is back in town.

Well, have you? Thought so.
He's been silent about UCI all the way, has applauded the biopassport whenever he could, has vouched for Sky (cf. Phat's support of Sky), and says winning clean is now a possibility (thanks to the UCI's anti-doping measurements). In sum: He was on UCI's ship. Now that the winds are changing, he jumps ship.

Stinks.

 

[sniper]

"UCI anti-doping is doing a good job"

http://www.bicycling.com/garmin-ins...nathan-vaughters-talks-doping-reform?page=0,6

 

[DirtyWorks]

vaughters? i'll be damned.
he claims cycling is clean already. so what does he want to change?
bad news for the CCN initiative, good news for Garmin's PR.

I agree this is more PR for JV.

I still don't know what they hope to accomplish. Wag their finger at the UCI? I suppose they could go to the IOC and try to force changes, but Hein seems like a pretty powerful guy and the IOC likes the anti-doping controversy system they have now.

If they want to do something, then set up a parallel federation with WADA. Except, as a UCI Pro, all riders are forbidden from racing in another federation... So, now what? More finger wagging?

 

[hrotha]

I've never heard him say anything in that direction. Have you?

Remember the breakaway league project?

 

[skippy]

My comment to Velonation : " Ashenden & Fuller are investing time and effort to help the " Cycling Public " to have a say in the way forward for Cycle Racing ! They deserve OUR Respect for that effort ! Agree that the eventual leadership should be composed of those that are able to point the finger at existing problems and lead the way forward . That there will be some with questionable backgrounds joining is certain , but " Catherine Marsal ( Past , French Womens'champ ?) is only the first of many that will deride these worthwhile efforts . When i look at the response to petitions as shpwn in this tweet :

" These petitions need YOUR support ! http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...eans-for-a-sports-amnesty-in-australia#invite … and http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition … What are YOU waiting for ? Change only comes when helped!

I WONDER if there are FANS out there willing to help ?

ALL this " clinic " does is pontificate ! Are there any here willing to put their shoulder to the wheel ? NO !

There should be a POLL if not more serious indications of SUPPORT !

So many of you think little of me and my " petitions " that i will leave YOU to lead !

 

[JV1973]

I've never heard him say anything in that direction. Have you?

For him to join the movement is suspect, to say the least, though far from surprising of course. Smells, again, like PR.

PR? Maybe. As in, bad PR. Potentially damaging to my team's possibility of a WT license type PR? Absolutely.

You really need to figure out what "PR" is before using the term. I know it's a bit advanced for your level of thinking. Mr. Sniper. But keep trying!

I was asked to attend, and so I will, despite the pitfalls and advice not to attend.... by folks charged with looking after PR.

 

[hrotha]

PR? Maybe. As in, bad PR. Potentially damaging to my team's possibility of a WT license type PR? Absolutely.

You really need to figure out what "PR" is before using the term. I know it's a bit advanced for your level of thinking. Mr. Sniper. But keep trying!

I was asked to attend, and so I will, despite the pitfalls and advice not to attend.... by folks charged with looking after PR.

Hey, since you're here, what do you think Bugno is doing there? Granted, he's the president of the cyclists union, but having him on board is like having McQuaid on board because he's the president of the international cycling union.

 

[JV1973]

Hey, since you're here, what do you think Bugno is doing there? Granted, he's the president of the cyclists union, but having him on board is like having McQuaid on board because he's the president of the international cycling union.

I can't speak for the organizer. I don't know. Bugno does his best to protect rider rights with limited resources. Maybe that's why?

 

[hrotha]

I can't speak for the organizer. I don't know. Bugno does his best to protect rider rights with limited resources. Maybe that's why?

Bugno is firmly in the "nothing to see here" camp. He's all for omertà. With him on board, this looks less like a serious attempt to make things right and more like a coup.

I know you're not in charge, and I'm also aware this isn't only about anti-doping, but that's how I see it. I'm seriously concerned that movements like this or the MPCC will be hijacked and defused by PR-inclined weasels.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

vaughters? i'll be damned.
he claims cycling is clean already. so what does he want to change?
bad news for the CCN initiative, good news for Garmin's PR.

...
The UCI. Obviously.

I've never heard him say anything in that direction. Have you?

For him to join the movement is suspect, to say the least, though far from surprising of course. Smells, again, like PR.

http://www.bicycling.com/garmin-ins...nathan-vaughters-talks-doping-reform?page=0,6

Hi Sniper,
You are so focused on trying to get a head shot of JV that you snipped to quote JV out o context - the answers to the questions you asked were in the piece you linked to.

.....JV
Because everyone wonders if their money is being used efficiently and correctly. Right now you have the governing body of the sport, which is promoting the sport worldwide and running its own races, and they do anti-doping. There should be greater funding and greater separation of church and state.
That’s not to say that Francesca Rossi shouldn’t be doing what she’s doing. She should absolutely do it. But maybe ultimate auditory power comes from WADA or a third party. UCI anti-doping is doing a good job, but when I go to team managers and say, ‘We should put in more money,’ I almost get spit in my face. They’re like ‘**** that. Why would I put in more money to an organization that only seeks to hurt my team? Not through anti-doping, but by forcing us to do races they make money off of, by imposing regulations that are counterproductive to sponsorship and to innovation in sport. This is an organization that is fundamentally hurting my organization over and over again, and I’m supposed to contribute more money to THEM? Forget about it!’ There are conflicts of interest that need to be resolved. I think every team in cycling would be willing to double their contribution and the race promoters would too if they absolutely trusted the process. That doesn’t mean it’s perfect, but they trust the process. It’s irrelevant whether there’s truth to it, but if there’s not trust to it it doesn’t work.

That raises the specter of corruption. Is that a legit question?
I don’t know. I honestly don’t know what to think about that. There’s the story of the 2001 positive [Landis alleges that the UCI helped cover up an Armstrong positive from that year]. Listen, I don’t know what happened, but what I do know is that if you want to prevent criticism, you move ultimate power to a third party and it eliminates the possibility of that criticism. Why are we not doing that? Why do we want to have that criticism? I don’t know. Let’s prevent anyone ever thinking that’s the case at all.
.....

 

[JV1973]

Bugno is firmly in the "nothing to see here" camp. He's all for omertà. With him on board, this looks less like a serious attempt to make things right and more like a coup.

I know you're not in charge, and I'm also aware this isn't only about anti-doping, but that's how I see it. I'm seriously concerned that movements like this or the MPCC will be hijacked and defused by PR-inclined weasels.

The lack of a defined direction and leader, along with everyone and their brother standing up and imploring something or other is getting a bit odd. I agree, the risk of cycling jumping abroad a runaway PR train is high. I have said it before and will say it again, I wish WADA would step in, and redirect things in an interim and professional way. We can't have 8 sets of groups with 8 sets of rules, each trying to be even more "zero-tolerancer awesomeness" than the next. Won't work.

 

[sniper]

PR? Maybe. As in, bad PR. Potentially damaging to my team's possibility of a WT license type PR? Absolutely.

You really need to figure out what "PR" is before using the term. I know it's a bit advanced for your level of thinking. Mr. Sniper. But keep trying!

I was asked to attend, and so I will, despite the pitfalls and advice not to attend.... by folks charged with looking after PR.

to be sure, I think this is a great initiative. As hrotha says, it's not only about anti-doping, but more particularly about removing phat and verdrug'm.
and yes, i think this might be a good way of achieving that particular aim: from the inside (cf. dr. maserati's post a few pages back). So in that sense, your and Bugno's membership is very welcome.

I don't think you'll loose your licence. You've got the plate "anti-doping" hanging firmly around your neck, so any UCI action against Garmin will be seen as UCI being anti-anti-doping. I assume you know that as well.

thirdly, I think you've said a lot of stuff that I would classify as BS: that cycling is clean, that cycling is cleaner, that a truce was called for in 2008, that Sky are dominating the GTs on paniagua and marginal gains. If all that is true, the UCI under Pat McQuaid have simply done a great job. And now you want him out?