"Change Cycling Now"

[martinvickers]

Is it possible the more testing carried out the better people get at beating the tests?.

That's exactly my point - that if anything, it's the anti-anti-doping in cycling that leaves the world for dead.

 

[martinvickers]

First up - I did a brief search on swimming and the Bio Passport, it would appear that swimming have adopted a "pilot programme".
That would explain why an athlete would not know that the sport has it.

FINA have the pilot, as far as I know. Other nat feds have been using them on and off for some time. Still, if FINA is only getting round to a pilot now, is than not kind proof positive that cycling is currently ahead of it?

Secondly - the highlighted above is quite different from your earlier posts:

That is why I said you were merely repeating PR fluff and your own research shows your earlier points as being incorrect.

I'm sorry, but it patently doesn't - my limited research shows cycling tests more, test more OOC, catches more, and catches a higher rate than most but not all other sports - a simple point, and proven.

You're still trying to argue against an argument I never made. It really would be better to just accept my point was limited like i always said, and i made it stick.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

FINA have the pilot, as far as I know. Other nat feds have been using them on and off for some time. Still, if FINA is only getting round to a pilot now, is than not kind proof positive that cycling is currently ahead of it?

You keep twisting your point - you were comparing testing numbers and stated that swimming have the Biological Passport. Now you are not sure?!

I'm sorry, but it patently doesn't - my limited research shows cycling tests more, test more OOC, catches more, and catches a higher rate than most but not all other sports - a simple point, and proven.

You're still trying to argue against an argument I never made. It really would be better to just accept my point was limited like i always said, and i made it stick.

I quoted your arguments - even when you tried to narrow it, I stated it was still incorrect.
You made an earlier point that is just PR guff -when you actually checked the claims it shows you were incorrect, if you want to keep making juvenile comments then stick in the Sky thread.

 

[martinvickers]

You keep twisting your point - you were comparing testing numbers and stated that swimming have the Biological Passport. Now you are not sure?!

Where did I say I wasn't sure? I'm aware of the FINA pilot - I'm also aware of a number of national programs - which bit of that isn't sure?

I quoted your arguments - even when you tried to narrow it, I stated it was still incorrect.
You made an earlier point that is just PR guff -when you actually checked the claims it shows you were incorrect, if you want to keep making juvenile comments then stick in the Sky thread.

I'm really not sure how i can help you further on this.

What did I say that was incorrect? In simple terms, please quote what I said that was incorrect?

 

[Carols]

http://nos.nl/video/446876-fuller-eist-aftreden-kopstukken-uci.html

Wow! Very strong words being used...likens the UCI to LA; intimidating, bullying. Says both riders and sponsors afraid to step forward due to UCI repercussions.

Go CCN!!!

 

[Tinman]

http://nos.nl/video/446876-fuller-eist-aftreden-kopstukken-uci.html

Thanks for the link, great interview featuring Jamie Fuller, who calls it as it is, and Ashenden also.

 

[sniper]

Be interested to hear more about the meeting.

Hajo seppelt was also there. Good sign.

Hope jaksche and vaughters got along.

Still don't know what vaughters was doing there, considering the lengths he's gone to to claim that cycling in general and sky in particular are clean, which would mean cycling is at present among the cleanest pro-sports on earth.

 

[taiwan]

Just to restate: allowing anyone in today's pro sport to attach this group to his brand is a mistake IMO. Same goes for commercial inerests like Skinz. It's not hard to see the conflict of interest: it'll just be another clean cycling tag which means little. The respected names involved did not need current DSs on board to do their work before, did they? It's compromised.

 

[hrotha]

Just to restate: allowing anyone in today's pro sport to attach this group to his brand is a mistake IMO. Same goes for commercial inerests like Skinz. It's not hard to see the conflict of interest: it'll just be another clean cycling tag which means little. The respected names involved did not need current DSs on board to do their work before, did they? It's compromised.

I tend to agree.

 

[Grandillusion]

Just to restate: allowing anyone in today's pro sport to attach this group to his brand is a mistake IMO. Same goes for commercial inerests like Skinz. It's not hard to see the conflict of interest: it'll just be another clean cycling tag which means little. The respected names involved did not need current DSs on board to do their work before, did they? It's compromised.

I would respectfully disagree Taiwan. The respected names (LeMond, Kimmage etc.) have been getting nowhere fast for years.

This movement requires mass & momentum. And it needs it now (there is desperate urgency about this, they have made that plain).

If the likes of Kimmage and LeMond, who have suffered real pain and setback, are farsighted enough to see that bringing even the fence-sitters & waverers onboard will help the cause, then they need support not cynicism.

Jamie Fuller is leading this group - there is plainly no "conflict of interest". The guy is straight-up genuine, Kimmage & LeMond know it, and they may actually stand a chance of succeeding if critical mass is attained.

As the most famous cyclist in the world at the moment, Bradley Wiggins is in an "untouchable" position right now (IMO) as far as sanction from McQuaid & the UCI. Why he doesn't put his head above the parapet & lend voice to the movement is a disgrace as far as I can see. He could bring success almost overnight if he had the balls.

 

[Aleajactaest]

. The guy is straight-up genuine, Kimmage & LeMond know it, and they may actually stand a chance of succeeding if critical mass is attained.

They have no chance with JV involved. No holier than thou former doper can be involved. Frankly, I don't think having Lemond helps either. We have no idea what his doping history is or isn't but he is a lightening rod which is not what they need.

While they desperately need this, it probably has to come from outsiders to have credibility and I have trouble finding someone who is both outside and simultaneously credible.

 

[sniper]

I would respectfully disagree Taiwan. The respected names (LeMond, Kimmage etc.) have been getting nowhere fast for years.

This movement requires mass & momentum. And it needs it now (there is desperate urgency about this, they have made that plain).

If the likes of Kimmage and LeMond, who have suffered real pain and setback, are farsighted enough to see that bringing even the fence-sitters & waverers onboard will help the cause, then they need support not cynicism.

Jamie Fuller is leading this group - there is plainly no "conflict of interest". The guy is straight-up genuine, Kimmage & LeMond know it, and they may actually stand a chance of succeeding if critical mass is attained.

As the most famous cyclist in the world at the moment, Bradley Wiggins is in an "untouchable" position right now (IMO) as far as sanction from McQuaid & the UCI. Why he doesn't put his head above the parapet & lend voice to the movement is a disgrace as far as I can see. He could bring success almost overnight if he had the balls.

If Team Sky are indeed treated beneficially by the UCI (not unlikely), that puts Walsh in an interesting position.

 

[Grandillusion]

They have no chance with JV involved. No holier than thou former doper can be involved. Frankly, I don't think having Lemond helps either. We have no idea what his doping history is or isn't but he is a lightening rod which is not what they need.

While they desperately need this, it probably has to come from outsiders to have credibility and I have trouble finding someone who is both outside and simultaneously credible.

You've got to be kidding me? So you don't even trust Greg LeMond?! Well who do you trust then?

Get real, this is not a joke. The credibility of your whole sport lies in the balance, these are serious times (although obviously not Gaza or Syria )

 

[sniper]

There are two overlapping, but principally different objectives:

1. throw Phat and McDrug'm overboard
2. create long-term clean cycling environment

Arguably, as Grandillusion suggests, you need the critical mass (i.e. the more members the better) to achieve the first objective.
However, to achieve the 2nd objective, the group would arguably have better chances with only a hard core of people with no direct strings into the peloton (Walsh, Kimmage, Fuller, Ashenden, and perhaps Lemond).

 

[martinvickers]

If Team Sky are indeed treated beneficially by the UCI (not unlikely), that puts Walsh in an interesting position.

Presumably TeamSky/Britich Cycling can offer two things to Pat.

1) money
2) the Cookson vote

Is there any real sign of either? The UCI olympic payout is IOC administered on the basis of a set formula - BC have nothing to do with it. Are we alleging basic bribery?

And cookson seems to have been - and i emphasise seems -one of the more strident voices in the recent bruhaha - indeed, if I was to speculate, the heavily Anglo-centric nature of the commission rather points to Pat having to bend over backwards to satisfy Cookson in particular. But I readily accept there's a fair heap of idle conjecture in there...

 

[Grandillusion]

If Team Sky are indeed treated beneficially by the UCI (not unlikely), that puts Walsh in an interesting position.

Whole other level of potential duplicity & complicity there Sniper - my brain hurts

 

[hiero2]

There are two overlapping, but principally different objectives:

1. throw Phat and McDrug'm overboard
2. create long-term clean cycling environment

Arguably, as Grandillusion suggests, you need the critical mass (i.e. the more members the better) to achieve the first objective.
However, to achieve the 2nd objective, the group would arguably have better chances with only a hardcore of founding members (Walsh, Kimmage, Fuller, Ashenden, and perhaps Lemond).

I am of another opinion - I think history will tell us that having JV in was a GOOD thing for achieving #2.

You already know that. Just saying, for the record, so we get a little balance here in ye olde Clinic.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Just to restate: allowing anyone in today's pro sport to attach this group to his brand is a mistake IMO. Same goes for commercial inerests like Skinz. It's not hard to see the conflict of interest: it'll just be another clean cycling tag which means little. The respected names involved did not need current DSs on board to do their work before, did they? It's compromised.

I agree with you. It is compromised. What a load of crap to have JV involved. Fish Hacks leading the charge? No thanks.

 

[martinvickers]

There are two overlapping, but principally different objectives:

1. throw Phat and McDrug'm overboard
2. create long-term clean cycling environment

Arguably, as Grandillusion suggests, you need the critical mass (i.e. the more members the better) to achieve the first objective.
However, to achieve the 2nd objective, the group would arguably have better chances with only a hard core of people with no direct strings into the peloton (Walsh, Kimmage, Fuller, Ashenden, and perhaps Lemond).

The aim is laudable, but I hesitate on the list of names - all absolutely impeccable people, but not necessarily with the skill set to run these various organisation - Fuller, yes, but has he the time - but a cyclist, two journos and a scientist won't automatically have the administrative skill set to run a large expensive world operation.

Not least because running these revolutionised orgs will require some heavy duty post-apocolyptic dimplomacy with sponsors, national feds, races and media - and really, do you see Greg or Paul as diplomats? I see the opposite.

anger can be a purifying emotion - vitally necessary to clean the stables - but it can be a bit of a burden when trying to educate and entice new sponsors, for example...

I suppose, in my long winded way I'm saying the new org has to be absolutely clean - that is an absoltely necessary ore-condition - but it's not enough that it's clean, it also has to be operationally effective.

Lemond, in my view, would make a great new "honourary president" - a figure head for the sport all but above suspicion, but without getting bogged down in running a company. plus the irony in his replacing Hein is delicious. then let the president operate as a basic chief executive - Quite like the **** Pound idea.

Ideally, first order of business is looking at how to structure the whole sport to prevent cosy cabals in the future - properly separate dope control, from basic rules body (somebody has to set out tyre widths!), from race organisers internal and external, especially from 'pro league' side, from financial side

Place those other guys mentioned on the "board of trustees", to operate parallel to the UCI committee or committees, with an oversight function - keep the attack dogs nice and hungry, and keep the nat feds and other chancers in line. That way you use the natural skill set of people like Paul and Walsh to continue to do good...

 

[Grandillusion]

Greg's going to run for UCI presidency!

 

[sniper]

I'm gonna go get me a popcorn refill.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Greg's going to run for UCI presidency!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-to-run-for-uci-presidency

Now or never...

 

[frenchfry]

I agree with you. It is compromised. What a load of crap to have JV involved. Fish Hacks leading the charge? No thanks.

Fish hacks aren't people?

Would you rather see a bunch of lawyers leading the movement? Accountants?

 

[Carols]

Greg's going to run for UCI presidency!

If Pat won't resign than oust him!!!! Go CCN!

 

[hiero2]

They need to be above reproach.Better off without the Skins dude.

Huh? I must have missed something - Jaimie Fuller is THE man behind this, getting it rolling. Jaimie Fuller is also "the Skins dude". He's just an entrepreneur. What's YOUR beef about him?