Change in route for Milan-San Remo??

[Hugo Koblet]

It never was ...

LOL

LOL ²

Lombardy has a bigger tradition of bunch sprints than Sanremo. See 1983 and 1985 results ...

What are you talking about? And Kelly won in '83 and '85. The same Kelly who won MSR in '86 and '92. What's your point?

 

[Echoes]

In Lombardy 1983, Kelly wins in a bunch of 18 men:

http://www.cyclingrevealed.com/Top_20_Clsscs/top20Cl_6.htm

Lombardy 1985 was a parody of a classic, with finish back in Milan, with Ghisallo as last climb 50km far from finish. More than 15-man bunch.


In Milan-Sanremo 1986, Kelly outsprinted allrounder LeMond and pure climber Mario Beccia, the rest is far behind !

http://www.milansanremo.co.uk/1986result.htm


My point is that Milan-Sanremo is not a sprinter race. Was not in the past and is not at the present time, either. I don't know what more you need to accept that fact.

 

[goggalor]

Steeper Cipressa sounds good to me. Leave the Poggio how it is, and finish on Via Roma. Makes it a bit harder, makes the Cipressa more realistic as a platform for attacking on (rather than just being the fulcrum for a secondary pointless break of the day), but doesn't fundamentally change the race, other than to let Echoes have a whine about people disrespecting the race by saying that sprinters can - and do - win it.

Absolutely. This year the racing onto Cipressa was manic, but then Agnoli rode tempo most of the way up, with the only attacks coming from no-hopers like Hoogerland. It split up a little on the descent, with Cancellara already making an appearance off the front, but came back together quickly. Make it a little harder and you could get a proper split with a good group. Especially if there are still pure sprinters in the race, unlike this year.

Actually, I wouldn't mind if they found some steeper pitches on the Poggio either, but I don't know the topography well enough to know if that's even possible.

 

[roundabout]

It was very close to being a sprinter race on Saturday. Without the 2 crashes there would have been more people chasing Cancellara than Geschke, Gatto, Paolini and Florencio.

 

[roundabout]

Absolutely. This year the racing onto Cipressa was manic, but then Agnoli rode tempo most of the way up, with the only attacks coming from no-hopers like Hoogerland. It split up a little on the descent, with Cancellara already making an appearance off the front, but came back together quickly. Make it a little harder and you could get a proper split with a good group. Especially if there are still pure sprinters in the race, unlike this year.

Actually, I wouldn't mind if they found some steeper pitches on the Poggio either, but I don't know the topography well enough to know if that's even possible.

Cipressa is too easy and attacking there is tactical suicide unless one is loaded like a mule as Colombo was in 1996. The best use of the climb is for the remaining helpers to make the race hard for the remaining sprinters

 

[Eshnar]

Absolutely. This year the racing onto Cipressa was manic, but then Agnoli rode tempo most of the way up, with the only attacks coming from no-hopers like Hoogerland. It split up a little on the descent, with Cancellara already making an appearance off the front, but came back together quickly. Make it a little harder and you could get a proper split with a good group. Especially if there are still pure sprinters in the race, unlike this year.

Actually, I wouldn't mind if they found some steeper pitches on the Poggio either, but I don't know the topography well enough to know if that's even possible.

well it IS possìble, but I really think Poggio shoud stay as it is.

 

[rgmerk]

Parcours worked OK this year

There's always room to tweak race routes over time.

But this year's race had a podium made up of a three-man escape, including a quality puncheur who's been in excellent form, an all-time champion roleur/TTer, and a GT winner. Almost within touching distance you had a small bunch of hardmen/sprinters charging home, led home by one of the most exciting young talents in world cycling.

Doesn't seem like there's anything radically wrong with the parcours to me.

 

[Froome19]

There's always room to tweak race routes over time.

But this year's race had a podium made up of a three-man escape, including a quality puncheur who's been in excellent form, an all-time champion roleur/TTer, and a GT winner. Almost within touching distance you had a small bunch of hardmen/sprinters charging home, led home by one of the most exciting young talents in world cycling.

Doesn't seem like there's anything radically wrong with the parcours to me.

Yeh exactly.
Imo the whole point of MSR is to provide a balance between the sprinters and the punchers/climbers. Which this year epitomised brilliantly by allowing 3 not sprinters to go and succed to the finish it showed it was a selective enough race but yet the sprinters were still in with a very good chance.

I see the point that I think the race directors understand that never wasnt much option for someone like Cancellara to win even though he was the strongest but I think the public understand that and appreciate the race for what it is. By changing it it become another Lombardia etc which is nice but I think that it is good to be unique.
Also the whole essence of MSR is that a whole array of riders from Nibali - Cav can challenge in it and i think that to take that away would be pretty sad.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Yeh exactly.
Imo the whole point of MSR is to provide a balance between the sprinters and the punchers/climbers. Which this year epitomised brilliantly by allowing 3 not sprinters to go and succed to the finish it showed it was a selective enough race but yet the sprinters were still in with a very good chance.

I see the point that I think the race directors understand that never wasnt much option for someone like Cancellara to win even though he was the strongest but I think the public understand that and appreciate the race for what it is. By changing it it become another Lombardia etc which is nice but I think that it is good to be unique.
Also the whole essence of MSR is that a whole array of riders from Nibali - Cav can challenge in it and i think that to take that away would be pretty sad.

Completely agree with this

 

[palmerq]

the last 2 races have been pretty good, I didnt see 2010... If they can make the cipressa climb a bit steeper I think that would be pretty good and make it more interesting maybe having the finish closer to the bottom of the poggio too, not right at the bottom but closeish.. although I dont think it really needs much done to it at all.

 

[Climbing]

As I said before in other threads, I would cut in half the flat after Poggio descent, so if you want to win solo you need to punch up the Poggio, descend well and have enough energy left to resist 1.5 Km of flat.
Sounds good, doesn't it?

 

[gilbertador]

I completely agree with what is being said by the organisers, we are not talking drastic changes, 3km of flat solo IS TO HARD from a peloton and is very rarely done the Via Roma is simply a bit closer to tilt the balance a tiny bit, the Cipressa change wouldnt be massive, its not gona turn into the muur de huy it will be marginally tougher again. Its good they are thinking outside the box to de rail the sprinters teams

For me with le manie it is the perfect race, 2 pelotons fighting one of pure sprinter the other a mix of sprinters and domestiques before a nerve racking finale which every rider has the chance to win. Personally its the classic i look forward to most after lbl and lombardia

 

[Panda Claws]

As I said before in other threads, I would cut in half the flat after Poggio descent, so if you want to win solo you need to punch up the Poggio, descend well and have enough energy left to resist 1.5 Km of flat.
Sounds good, doesn't it?

Too much of an advantage to the very explosive types, e.g. Gilbert.

 

[Froome19]

Too much of an advantage to the very explosive types, e.g. Gilbert.

On the other hand its better than some of the rumours of finishing on top of the Poggio!

 

[swuzzlebubble]

No problem with the proposed changes. Gerrans would have won anyway

 

[Froome19]

No problem with the proposed changes. Gerrans would have won anyway

Won what? .....
.....The race for second behind Cancellara?

 

[Panda Claws]

On the other hand its better than some of the rumours of finishing on top of the Poggio!

That would completely change MSR.

And thus suck.

 

[danjo007]

Won what? .....
.....The race for second behind Cancellara?

obviously you are still living in fantasy-land. this is what really happened [its true, i have proof] - gerrans beat cancellara

 

[Froome19]

obviously you are still living in fantasy-land. this is what really happened [its true, i have proof] - gerrans beat cancellara

Obviously you havent read the last couple of posts, otherwise you would have understood that i was referring to what would have happened if MSR finished on the Poggio..

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Obviously you havent read the last couple of posts, otherwise you would have understood that i was referring to what would have happened if MSR finished on the Poggio..

Well you did reply to me and I was referring to finish at bottom of Poggio...obviously.

 

[ultimobici]

In Lombardy 1983, Kelly wins in a bunch of 18 men:

http://www.cyclingrevealed.com/Top_20_Clsscs/top20Cl_6.htm

Lombardy 1985 was a parody of a classic, with finish back in Milan, with Ghisallo as last climb 50km far from finish. More than 15-man bunch.


In Milan-Sanremo 1986, Kelly outsprinted allrounder LeMond and pure climber Mario Beccia, the rest is far behind !

http://www.milansanremo.co.uk/1986result.htm


My point is that Milan-Sanremo is not a sprinter race. Was not in the past and is not at the present time, either. I don't know what more you need to accept that fact.

To call the 83 Lombardia a bunch sprint is misleading. Of the 18 riders in the break none were field sprinters. Kelly had already shown he had developed into something more than a sprinter with his victories in Paris Nice

The winning break also had most of the major teams represented by two riders, more than enough disincentive to chase.

1 Kelly Sean Sem - Mavic - France Loire 6h27'36'
2 Lemond Greg Renault - Elf m.t.
3 Van Der Poel Adri J.Aernoudt - Rossin - Campagnolo m.t.
4 Kuiper Hennie J.Aernoudt - Rossin - Campagnolo m.t.
5 Moser Francesco Gis Gelati - Campagnolo m.t.
6 Glaus Gilbert Cilo - Aufina m.t.
7 Ferretti Antonio Cilo - Aufina m.t.
8 Anderson Phil Peugeot - Shell - Michelin m.t.
9 Contini Silvano Bianchi Piaggio m.t.
10 Chinetti Alfredo Inoxpran - Pentole Posale m.t.
11 Lejarreta Marino Alfa Lum - Olmo m.t.
12 Seiz Hubert Cilo - Aufina m.t.
13 Ruperez Faustino Zor - Gemeaz Cusin m.t.
14 Criquelion Claude Splendor - Wickes Bouwmark m.t.
15 Mottet Charly Renault - Elf m.t.
16 Pedersen Dag-Erik Bianchi Piaggio m.t.
17 Munoz Machin Rodriguez Pedro Zor - Gemeaz Cusin m.t.
18 Roche Stephen Peugeot - Shell - Michelin m.t.
19 Panizza Wladimiro Atala - Campagnolo 1.03.
20 Pozzi Alessandro m.t.

Looking at the 85 result, it tells a similar tale. Bottom line is neither were bunch sprints like the kind we've seen at San Remo in the last 10 years or so.

 

[karlboss]

I thought this edition of the race was good, almost perfect. When Cavendish was dropped, the group being pushed by SKY was slowly clawing back time and I was thrilled by the prospect of what may happen if they got back, but then the race settles back into the same pattern when it was clear Cavendish was gone. We'd just culled half the peloton. Going over the Cipressa there wasn't any action, and we waited for the inevitable fire works on the Poggio which we got. Then an entertaining decent, and 3 holding off 7 holding of 30 or something. the 7 could have been 40 if not for the crash, which may have brought everything back together, however this is ok.
Like a few others if the Cipressa were more difficult I think this race would be close to perfect. I'd like to see the early break with a chance, the climbers, the puncheurs, and the sprinters, if they and their teams are good enough. The climbers should have their chance on the Cipressa and then try to hold an advatage to the end, but it's not tough enough, 5.7 km is fine, but 4.1% just isn't steep enough.

 

[greatking88]

Sean Kelly's view on the possible changes, could make it more exciting to finish the race where his 92 victory took place, 1km after the descent of the Poggio..

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...-proposed-changes-to-Milan-Sanremo-route.aspx

 

[The Hitch]

IMo if the race finished on the Poggio it would become what AGR has been last 2 years.

Obvious Gilbert win.

 

[Panda Claws]

IMo if the race finished on the Poggio it would become what AGR has been last 2 years.

Obvious Gilbert win.

Exactly, as much as I like Gilbert there is no need for more races like that.

Part of the reason why Gilbert is so good because there are much more stages that end like this than there used to be.