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- Sep 25, 2009
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...thought it is time to resuscitate this thread.
today starts a world championship match between a norwegian and a russian, carlsen vs karjakin.
they will play 12 games. most predict that carlsen should win w/o much effort since his rating is much higher.
both are 26, both were prodigies with kajakin becoming the youngest ever grand master at the age of 12 and 7 months... fisher for instance got his gm at 15. there are some curious details, both technical and political, that may interfere.
on the technical level, carlsen leads their personal score 5:1 in full-length games (with 15 or 16 draws). he also is considered irresistible when the position acquires clarity rendering itself to his superior analytical machinery. otoh, i believe karjakin leads magnus in their rapid chess score. he is also considered slightly superior (by some) when the game is still complex and full of options and uncertainties. as always at their level, the home preparation in terms of surprise openings will play a huge role. in that regard, thier support staff will be important. that's where the political dimension may play out.
if i am not mistaken, kasparov (who hates everything putin) is the member of the carlsen staff. on the other hand, per reuters, serhey was born in the part of ukraine (the crimea) that become russia 2 yo and he reportedly was very enthusiastic about the fact. also and incomprehensibly, b/c of the us sanctions, the current president of fide (a russian) could NOT be present in nyc at the opening.
i need to do more reading on who else is the member of each team.
i understand, one can follow the match live, i plan to, including a visit to the seaport district
http://nyc2016.fide.com/
today starts a world championship match between a norwegian and a russian, carlsen vs karjakin.
they will play 12 games. most predict that carlsen should win w/o much effort since his rating is much higher.
both are 26, both were prodigies with kajakin becoming the youngest ever grand master at the age of 12 and 7 months... fisher for instance got his gm at 15. there are some curious details, both technical and political, that may interfere.
on the technical level, carlsen leads their personal score 5:1 in full-length games (with 15 or 16 draws). he also is considered irresistible when the position acquires clarity rendering itself to his superior analytical machinery. otoh, i believe karjakin leads magnus in their rapid chess score. he is also considered slightly superior (by some) when the game is still complex and full of options and uncertainties. as always at their level, the home preparation in terms of surprise openings will play a huge role. in that regard, thier support staff will be important. that's where the political dimension may play out.
if i am not mistaken, kasparov (who hates everything putin) is the member of the carlsen staff. on the other hand, per reuters, serhey was born in the part of ukraine (the crimea) that become russia 2 yo and he reportedly was very enthusiastic about the fact. also and incomprehensibly, b/c of the us sanctions, the current president of fide (a russian) could NOT be present in nyc at the opening.
i need to do more reading on who else is the member of each team.
i understand, one can follow the match live, i plan to, including a visit to the seaport district
http://nyc2016.fide.com/
- Sep 25, 2009
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Re:
here's the most excellent, balanced and well referenced analysis, prediction and some history. well worth the read. the author's injection of the history parallels is just fascinating.
https://en.chessbase.com/post/speelman-how-will-karjakin-fare-against-carlsen
the absolute majority of the professionals predict carlsen will not take all 12 games to win...while i love chess and played competitively one time, i simply dont have the base to predict on my own analysis.kingjr said:
here's the most excellent, balanced and well referenced analysis, prediction and some history. well worth the read. the author's injection of the history parallels is just fascinating.
https://en.chessbase.com/post/speelman-how-will-karjakin-fare-against-carlsen
- Sep 25, 2009
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...1st game ended about 20 minutes ago. a draw. carlsen was white. was aggressive from the get-go. the commentary i saw called his position sharper thrugh the middle of the game. at some point he was also considerably ahead on the clock. but karjakin was defending stubbornly. i followed live only last 10 or so moves. it was clearly a psychological war. such a clearly drawn position would produce a hand shake as an official draw well before it did. the players were waiting for WHO will offer a draw or who will indicate it by repeating the moves 3 times. when carlsen indicated he'd agree to a repetition draw the russian declined forcing carlsen to offer an explicit draw.
a draw with blacks and forcing carlsen to offer a draw is a good start for karjakin. tomorrow he plays white. one of only 6 attacking possibilities. he is very likely to produce a surprise opening prepared at home with the help of supercomputers and his team analysts. magnus, historically, has often been slow getting up to speed in terms of getting his best game. if he defends well tomorrow, i say he's a clear fave.
a draw with blacks and forcing carlsen to offer a draw is a good start for karjakin. tomorrow he plays white. one of only 6 attacking possibilities. he is very likely to produce a surprise opening prepared at home with the help of supercomputers and his team analysts. magnus, historically, has often been slow getting up to speed in terms of getting his best game. if he defends well tomorrow, i say he's a clear fave.
- Sep 25, 2009
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the 2nd game was not exciting at all, as both stuck to safe lines avoiding risk and uncertainty. while carlsen playing black was understandably trying to equalize the position before taking over the initiative, i was surprised
why karjakin did not resort to any sharp swerves from the book earlier. carlsen never stepped on a home prepped mine, b/c....there was none. perhaps karjakin will use one later, but for now he wasted one of his 6 best opportunities. today they are off to resume on monday...
i did try to follow the game with several portals, but found the following one superior.
https://chess24.com/en/wcc2016
2 young grand masters provide both the live as-they-play commentary and a post-game detailed analysis. and it is free. another good live commentary is by polgar. she's even funny sometimes.
---
here's susan polgar for a variety..
https://chessdailynews.com/karjakin-carlsen-gm-2-live-commentary/
why karjakin did not resort to any sharp swerves from the book earlier. carlsen never stepped on a home prepped mine, b/c....there was none. perhaps karjakin will use one later, but for now he wasted one of his 6 best opportunities. today they are off to resume on monday...
i did try to follow the game with several portals, but found the following one superior.
https://chess24.com/en/wcc2016
2 young grand masters provide both the live as-they-play commentary and a post-game detailed analysis. and it is free. another good live commentary is by polgar. she's even funny sometimes.
---
here's susan polgar for a variety..
https://chessdailynews.com/karjakin-carlsen-gm-2-live-commentary/
- Sep 25, 2009
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they are on a 3d game as i type...looks like the most tense game so far.
2:45 into the game, 25 moves made and karjakin is already taking about 20 min to make his 25 th move (black). he may get into a time trouble if he does not move soon. he is under pressure...
the position is theoretically equal with the initiative is strongly in the hands of carlsen. the portal i follow (chess24.com) leans towards carlsen advantage, but no clear path seen to a win. while i was typing they made 4 moves...
2:45 into the game, 25 moves made and karjakin is already taking about 20 min to make his 25 th move (black). he may get into a time trouble if he does not move soon. he is under pressure...
the position is theoretically equal with the initiative is strongly in the hands of carlsen. the portal i follow (chess24.com) leans towards carlsen advantage, but no clear path seen to a win. while i was typing they made 4 moves...
- Sep 25, 2009
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karjakin made the time control but he's in trouble. his problem is being down a (passing) pawn. if the material exchanges were allowed by carlsen earlier, it would be a theoretical draw...but he did not. he left the rooks and his knight vs the bishop intact. which is a theoretical win for whites, provided he moves around carefully allowing his pawn to move into an unopposed final horizontal w/o being traded. the carlsen win is as probable as 9/1 now.
- Sep 25, 2009
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i dont recall a world championship game lasting 7+h..
i don't recall a world championship game ending in a draw after it was predicted an 80% win for the whites by BOTH the experts and computers.
glad we saw a game played by the humans, not computers, where a stoic defense against a tired offense produced what was the logical thing to produce - a draw.
i do like the rule forcing the players into a faster-paced game in stead of the old custom of adjourning.
karjakin was a moral winner today b/c he absolutely proved the per-match notion i read on more responsible media - he's a an incredibly tenacious defender.
i don't recall a world championship game ending in a draw after it was predicted an 80% win for the whites by BOTH the experts and computers.
glad we saw a game played by the humans, not computers, where a stoic defense against a tired offense produced what was the logical thing to produce - a draw.
i do like the rule forcing the players into a faster-paced game in stead of the old custom of adjourning.
karjakin was a moral winner today b/c he absolutely proved the per-match notion i read on more responsible media - he's a an incredibly tenacious defender.
- Apr 30, 2011
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At the very end instead of what began the draw, so move 77. (after that move the draw was inevitable, right?)
With the idea of it to lead to this:
http://www.apronus.com/chess/puzzle...0_1&c=&w=&h=<h1>(header missing)</h1>&N=0&m=1
With the idea of it to lead to this:
http://www.apronus.com/chess/puzzle...0_1&c=&w=&h=<h1>(header missing)</h1>&N=0&m=1
- Sep 25, 2009
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a suggestion: when communicating chess via the net, clarity with the moves sequence is a must...
the position after after 76. Knight c4 ... is similar to the one in the link, except the black pawn was still at h4
http://www.agnes-bruckner.com/apronus_images/chess/onepixel.gif
karjakin advanced while taking the pawn to safety: 76. ...h3.
the suggestion was : 77. Knight d2 h2 instead of what was actually played: 77. Rook h4 King g3
then, 78. Knight e4+ King f3, 79. Knight g3.
at that point the black would: 79. ...Rook g1 pinning the knight and the rook...
there were many ways it was a draw as the black king was closer and would outpace the white king in a race for the b pawn.
the position after after 76. Knight c4 ... is similar to the one in the link, except the black pawn was still at h4
http://www.agnes-bruckner.com/apronus_images/chess/onepixel.gif
karjakin advanced while taking the pawn to safety: 76. ...h3.
the suggestion was : 77. Knight d2 h2 instead of what was actually played: 77. Rook h4 King g3
then, 78. Knight e4+ King f3, 79. Knight g3.
at that point the black would: 79. ...Rook g1 pinning the knight and the rook...
there were many ways it was a draw as the black king was closer and would outpace the white king in a race for the b pawn.
- Sep 25, 2009
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game 4.
strangely, in stead of having put pressure on carlsen with his whites, serhey had found himself in a positional weakness after barely 20 moves. the experts, reasonably imo, are speculating karjakin is not prepared as well as he was thought to be re. the surprise openings... the game for him is now that of survival. like last night. what i see he should survive given the exceptionally stoic attitude we saw yesterday. but ...they've played now for 3,5 hours and i will not follow the rest of the game.
if i learn tomorrow morning that korjakin survived again, i will question if the luck is going to end soon.
strangely, in stead of having put pressure on carlsen with his whites, serhey had found himself in a positional weakness after barely 20 moves. the experts, reasonably imo, are speculating karjakin is not prepared as well as he was thought to be re. the surprise openings... the game for him is now that of survival. like last night. what i see he should survive given the exceptionally stoic attitude we saw yesterday. but ...they've played now for 3,5 hours and i will not follow the rest of the game.
if i learn tomorrow morning that korjakin survived again, i will question if the luck is going to end soon.
- Sep 25, 2009
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...just finished reviewing the game 4 starting where i left off last night...indeed karjakin is a true houdini. another almost 7 hour torture and he's still alive. all commentators are unanimous that against the carlsen murder record and his suffocating, incremental style it was quite incredible. not that carlson played perfectly (45…f4?), but he did not commit a blunder like korjakin earlier (19.Bxc4? allowing an end game with the classic advantage of 2 bishops).
the last games were very technical, where the skill and intuition counted for more than a pure calculation power.
the last games were very technical, where the skill and intuition counted for more than a pure calculation power.
- Sep 25, 2009
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game 5...
the 1st control was just passed...
in my judgement, magnus, despite deviating from the italian opening mains with the whites early enough, had not been able to produce a positional or a tempo advantage he's so eager and capable of. in fact, after the 1st control
the position is either even or per the gm svindler assessment slightly towards the black...sussan polgar put it as a 99% draw.
then after the 1st control (40 moves in 100 min) she sees carlsen under pressure in his own positional game with the whites. this is crazy b/c the opposite was said when carlsen outplayed karj with both the whites and the balck...he seems outplaying magnus as i type at his own game but not necessarily accumulating the odds for wining this particular game.,
both queens are still very much in play (which bodes for a showdown). i see the edge for the black but will retire now to attend the none-chess matters
the 1st control was just passed...
in my judgement, magnus, despite deviating from the italian opening mains with the whites early enough, had not been able to produce a positional or a tempo advantage he's so eager and capable of. in fact, after the 1st control
the position is either even or per the gm svindler assessment slightly towards the black...sussan polgar put it as a 99% draw.
then after the 1st control (40 moves in 100 min) she sees carlsen under pressure in his own positional game with the whites. this is crazy b/c the opposite was said when carlsen outplayed karj with both the whites and the balck...he seems outplaying magnus as i type at his own game but not necessarily accumulating the odds for wining this particular game.,
both queens are still very much in play (which bodes for a showdown). i see the edge for the black but will retire now to attend the none-chess matters
- Sep 25, 2009
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...not sure what happened to my post i place right after the game 8...
anyways, it was a dramatic game. never before carlsen was behind in a match. he was visibly shaken refusing to stay at a mandatory press conference and even refusing his domestic channel the nrk any comments. he stormed out like a hurt baby. i think it is understandable, but he had signed a contract with the fide and now stands to be fined for btwn 40-60K euros. that's a lot of money for most grandmasters, but perhaps not for magnus. i personally don't think a player that lost should be compelled to stay. its a personal micro tragedy and forcing salt in a would seems to me cruel, disrespectful. neither magnus deserves to be treated harshly as for all i know - very much unlike his compatriots in a sport i consider my 1st, the xc skiing - magnus is a friendly person. but rule are rules...
btw, the norwegian media which i read daily is not whining nor is arrogant... something i constantly come across in the xc ski coverage. the nrk and VG commentators give credit to karjakin and criticize magnus for playing too aggressively.
all in all, both players made several mistakes not appropriate for their level. but both played in a severe time deficit which may explain some. curiously, and i dont recall any commentator noting this, karjaking is regularly upsetting magnus playing ...black. he got his 1st initiative here in the game 5 where he was black and he also won his only previous classic game with carlsen playing black. also, if i am not mistaken he won 2 games playing black in rapid chess (i dont know how many blitz games they played). i'd be interested to find out if there is any player on this planet who could boast a similar score against the best ever positional geniuos calsen.
4 games to go with the psychological and math advantage to karjakin.
anyways, it was a dramatic game. never before carlsen was behind in a match. he was visibly shaken refusing to stay at a mandatory press conference and even refusing his domestic channel the nrk any comments. he stormed out like a hurt baby. i think it is understandable, but he had signed a contract with the fide and now stands to be fined for btwn 40-60K euros. that's a lot of money for most grandmasters, but perhaps not for magnus. i personally don't think a player that lost should be compelled to stay. its a personal micro tragedy and forcing salt in a would seems to me cruel, disrespectful. neither magnus deserves to be treated harshly as for all i know - very much unlike his compatriots in a sport i consider my 1st, the xc skiing - magnus is a friendly person. but rule are rules...
btw, the norwegian media which i read daily is not whining nor is arrogant... something i constantly come across in the xc ski coverage. the nrk and VG commentators give credit to karjakin and criticize magnus for playing too aggressively.
all in all, both players made several mistakes not appropriate for their level. but both played in a severe time deficit which may explain some. curiously, and i dont recall any commentator noting this, karjaking is regularly upsetting magnus playing ...black. he got his 1st initiative here in the game 5 where he was black and he also won his only previous classic game with carlsen playing black. also, if i am not mistaken he won 2 games playing black in rapid chess (i dont know how many blitz games they played). i'd be interested to find out if there is any player on this planet who could boast a similar score against the best ever positional geniuos calsen.
4 games to go with the psychological and math advantage to karjakin.
- Jun 9, 2014
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- Sep 25, 2009
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the game 9 is still on. the position is drawish.
many predicted that after a defeat in the game 8 magnus will tonight come back mad and swinging ...
it was never to be seen. the opening was breathtakingly fast...means neither carlsen nor his opponent had a mine to detonate. then, the game descended into a positional trickery where magnus was never in control or ahead. he is still a pawn down defending for his life. i guess the only reason karjakin is till playing a drawn position is to convey a psycho message of his superiority. something magnus never failed to assert.... which is real enough but i doubt will make a difference tonight.
there are 3 games left and magnus has not yet showed the brilliance that made him the world's no 1. or was it that he was not allowed to be brilliant ?
many predicted that after a defeat in the game 8 magnus will tonight come back mad and swinging ...
it was never to be seen. the opening was breathtakingly fast...means neither carlsen nor his opponent had a mine to detonate. then, the game descended into a positional trickery where magnus was never in control or ahead. he is still a pawn down defending for his life. i guess the only reason karjakin is till playing a drawn position is to convey a psycho message of his superiority. something magnus never failed to assert.... which is real enough but i doubt will make a difference tonight.
there are 3 games left and magnus has not yet showed the brilliance that made him the world's no 1. or was it that he was not allowed to be brilliant ?
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