Chris Comical serves up a fresh batch of Kool-Aid (or maybe it's Hawaiian Punch?)

[Hugh Januss]

NOBODY CARES who coined the term "Chris Comical". It's funny. Having an internet pillow fight about who came up with it isn't.

I must disagree, I find it kind of entertaining.

 

[Oldman]

I must disagree, I find it kind of entertaining.

This is the silly season anyway. Everyone has potential and everyone has a shot at the big victory. As a diversion we should guess at all of the products CC will endorse, books he will write, etc. Based on prior scripts and the attentiveness of this forum we could probably figure every move he's going to make in the next 7 months.

 

[Berzin]

After seeing Berzin's posts on amateur doping, I ignore the guy.

It doesn't matter to me whether you read my posts or not, but I do find this typical of how the issue of doping is perceived here.

If a Cat 4, 5, or whatever dopes to win a local race with nothing more at stake than a plastic medal and a $20 gift certificate for a box of Powerbars, then it's OK to cast aspersions towards their overall worth as a human being. That's not fair.

I was trying to point out that people from all walks of life cheat at cycling. I've seen it. Everyone from the nicest of guys to the biggest of a-holes. It runs the gamut of the whole human personality spectrum.

And if there is anything that Armstrong and now Mark McGuire has taught us, is that many people don't care about doping. For them it's not the Holy Crusade some of you make it out to be.

This is why I don't race. I love cycling too much to be bothered with people who would stoop to taking HGH and all types of other crap just to beat me up Cat's Paw Hill in Central Park.

The point is, it's not that serious. For me, as long as Armstrong is out there doing what he does, he makes a mockery of the sport. There is no credibility to his accomplishments and it casts a shadow over the whole sport. But the reality is people adore him and he brings money to the pro cycling scene. But I have to deal with this uncomfortable fact. If we have learned anything is that cheaters are forgiven more often than not. Just look at Mark McGuire.

Listen to this guy criticizing LA, with Evgeni Berzin as his avatar.....the guy that rode with Gewiss in 94 and 95, winning LBL and the Giro, part of the Gewiss sweep in FW in 94, associated with Ferrari, etc. It's like having Tiger Woods as your avatar while preaching the virtues of monogamy.

So, should I change my avatar to that of the Pope? Would that make you feel more comfortable, or endow my opinions with a bit more self-righteous gravitas?

I like Berzin because of his form on the bike, not because he was a saint. But now that we are on the subject, name me one major player in the pro cycling scene during the mid-late '90's that did not dope, or was highly suspected of doping. I would like to read this list.

 

[BikeCentric]

Well I'm going to post on topic, right after I take credit for inventing the nickname "Chris Comical." That's right all you haters are just ripping ME off so eat it.

Anyway, what's hilarious about these latest claims is really how moronic Carmichael and Lance think the typical cycling fan is. First off, shouldn't it really be a cause for concern if in fact Lance Armstrong is flying right now for a race that's in July? Remember when Mayo stomped the **** out of him on the climbs in the Daupine in like '03 I think it was. Lance and Comical we're like "ha ha we don't care that he beat us because he's a dumbass and he's peaking almost a month before the first big mountains of the Tour and Lance is still in his build-up." And they were right then of course.

So why the F is Lance trying to get way ahead of his schedule on his threshold power numbers when he should be doing a ton of tempo riding right now to build the base? You know, like he's done every other year in the past.

Second and more obvious: if he's so fast right now then why is he finishing 50th in the TDU every day and why did he miss the split today? "Lance is such a bad *** mofo that he blew up the engine on my crappy old Vespa" but he still can't make the front group in the frickin' TDU warm-up base-training race?! In other words, Chris thinks we're all retards.

 

[BikeCentric]

It doesn't matter to me whether you read my posts or not, but I do find this typical of how the issue of doping is perceived here.

If a Cat 4, 5, or whatever dopes to win a local race with nothing more at stake than a plastic medal and a $20 gift certificate for a box of Powerbars, then it's OK to cast aspersions towards their overall worth as a human being. That's not fair.

I was trying to point out that people from all walks of life cheat at cycling. I've seen it. Everyone from the nicest of guys to the biggest of a-holes. It runs the gamut of the whole human personality spectrum.

And if there is anything that Armstrong and now Mark McGuire has taught us, is that many people don't care about doping. For them it's not the Holy Crusade some of you make it out to be.

This is why I don't race. I love cycling too much to be bothered with people who would stoop to taking HGH and all types of other crap just to beat me up Cat's Paw Hill in Central Park.

The point is, it's not that serious. For me, as long as Armstrong is out there doing what he does, he makes a mockery of the sport. There is no credibility to his accomplishments and it casts a shadow over the whole sport. But the reality is people adore him and he brings money to the pro cycling scene. But I have to deal with this uncomfortable fact. If we have learned anything is that cheaters are forgiven more often than not. Just look at Mark McGuire.




So, should I change my avatar to that of the Pope? Would that make you feel more comfortable, or endow my opinions with a bit more self-righteous gravitas?

I like Berzin because of his form on the bike, not because he was a saint. But now that we are on the subject, name me one major player in the pro cycling scene during the mid-late '90's that did not dope, or was highly suspected of doping. I would like to read this list.

Look, to break my "constant cynicism" mode for a minute I'm going to tell you something that's true (in my experience):

As long as you aren't really unlucky and have very, very poor athletic genetic gifts pretty much anyone can do pretty darn well in amateur bicycle racing as long as they are willing to be in a number of years (probably 3+) of smart, quality, training (8+ hours per week) NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE OUT THERE IS TAKING.

I'm not saying this is the case for you, but I am saying that if there is anyone out there who doesn't race because they worry they'll have to race against dopers I say don't let that stop you. I've said it before and I'll say it again: amateurs are primarily limited by time available to train. If you can make the time and get it done, you will do pretty well as long as you are at least a somewhat average athlete.

 

[Oldman]

Look, to break my "constant cynicism" mode for a minute I'm going to tell you something that's true (in my experience):

As long as you aren't really unlucky and have very, very poor athletic genetic gifts pretty much anyone can do pretty darn well in amateur bicycle racing as long as they are willing to be in a number of years (probably 3+) of smart, quality, training (8+ hours per week) NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE OUT THERE IS TAKING.

I'm not saying this is the case for you, but I am saying that if there is anyone out there who doesn't race because they worry they'll have to race against dopers I say don't let that stop you. I've said it before and I'll say it again: amateurs are primarily limited by time available to train. If you can make the time and get it done, you will do pretty well as long as you are at least a somewhat average athlete.

A-frickn'-men. And if you are genetically blessed and train 15 hrs a week; you'll probably beat everyone including the dopers. You'll only face the worst of it when you move past your region so race your bike and enjoy it. Otherwise, the terrorists win!

 

[Oldman]

[/color]

A-frickn'-men. And if you are genetically blessed and train 15 hrs a week; you'll probably beat everyone including the dopers. You'll only face the worst of it when you move past your region so race your bike and enjoy it. Otherwise, the terrorists win!

PS-don't give money to charlatan coaches and don't spend money on supplements promising the moon.

Otherwise-this is fun debunking the gamesmanship and snake-oil peddling of these two guys.

 

[Anonymous]

Well I'm going to post on topic, right after I take credit for inventing the nickname "Chris Comical." That's right all you haters are just ripping ME off so eat it.

Anyway, what's hilarious about these latest claims is really how moronic Carmichael and Lance think the typical cycling fan is. First off, shouldn't it really be a cause for concern if in fact Lance Armstrong is flying right now for a race that's in July? Remember when Mayo stomped the **** out of him on the climbs in the Daupine in like '03 I think it was. Lance and Comical we're like "ha ha we don't care that he beat us because he's a dumbass and he's peaking almost a month before the first big mountains of the Tour and Lance is still in his build-up." And they were right then of course.

So why the F is Lance trying to get way ahead of his schedule on his threshold power numbers when he should be doing a ton of tempo riding right now to build the base? You know, like he's done every other year in the past.

Second and more obvious: if he's so fast right now then why is he finishing 50th in the TDU every day and why did he miss the split today? "Lance is such a bad *** mofo that he blew up the engine on my crappy old Vespa" but he still can't make the front group in the frickin' TDU warm-up base-training race?! In other words, Chris thinks we're all retards.

Completely agree. This is what I don't get about it. Why are they coming out with this toss? If it is to try to get into Contador's head, it's the biggest fail since Sarah Palin on CBS. Anyone who knows anything about racing knows about training peaks and bases etc etc, so they won't be fooling AC one bit. The only people that will be fooled are the LA fans who know nothing about cycling. Or it's part of his way of psyching himself up. Either way, it's just making him look insecure. As David Millar said last week, LA knows AC is better than he ever was and he can't handle it. I just hope he juices up so much he finally gets caught and the entire myth is exposed.

 

[MacRoadie]

NOBODY CARES who coined the term "Chris Comical". It's funny. Having an internet pillow fight about who came up with it isn't.

Yeah, had I only known...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

It doesn't matter to me whether you read my posts or not, but I do find this typical of how the issue of doping is perceived here.

If a Cat 4, 5, or whatever dopes to win a local race with nothing more at stake than a plastic medal and a $20 gift certificate for a box of Powerbars, then it's OK to cast aspersions towards their overall worth as a human being. That's not fair.

I was trying to point out that people from all walks of life cheat at cycling. I've seen it. Everyone from the nicest of guys to the biggest of a-holes. It runs the gamut of the whole human personality spectrum.

And if there is anything that Armstrong and now Mark McGuire has taught us, is that many people don't care about doping. For them it's not the Holy Crusade some of you make it out to be.

This is why I don't race. I love cycling too much to be bothered with people who would stoop to taking HGH and all types of other crap just to beat me up Cat's Paw Hill in Central Park.

The point is, it's not that serious. For me, as long as Armstrong is out there doing what he does, he makes a mockery of the sport. There is no credibility to his accomplishments and it casts a shadow over the whole sport. But the reality is people adore him and he brings money to the pro cycling scene. But I have to deal with this uncomfortable fact. If we have learned anything is that cheaters are forgiven more often than not. Just look at Mark McGuire.




So, should I change my avatar to that of the Pope? Would that make you feel more comfortable, or endow my opinions with a bit more self-righteous gravitas?

I like Berzin because of his form on the bike, not because he was a saint. But now that we are on the subject, name me one major player in the pro cycling scene during the mid-late '90's that did not dope, or was highly suspected of doping. I would like to read this list.

Look, I don't disagree with 99% of what you posted above. All I am saying is that people who cheat give certain impressions about their overall worth as human beings. And if they cheat to win that $5 plastic medal, you know they're probably the kind of people that will cheat at a lot more than that. Whether people cheat at other things is irrelevant. So what? Just because a lot of others do it, doesn't mean it's ok for the next person to do it.

 

[Wallace]

The ridiculous thing about amateurs doping is that there's really nothing at stake. A lot of the European pros are guys who would be working in factories or fields if they weren't on bikes--it's a job (as in, bike riding is their profession, hence the term professional). If a drug helps them recover quicker so they can be a more effective domestique,or if they're one of the lucky few who have a chance at winning something that will win them a little fame, that increases their salary, long and short term. I don't have much sympathy for Rasmussen, but I remember when the whole thing broke about him trying to trick a friend into smuggling some drugs in a shoebox, the chicken's ex-friend quoted Rasmussen as saying something like: "you have career options. I don't. I didn't go to college. All I know how to do is ride a bike." While I'm glad Rasmussen got caught, etc. I see his line of thought. And a lot of the Euro Pros are in the exact same position, no college, no other skills, the short career span of a racer (10 years, 15 if they're really, really lucky). In a concrete way, it makes sense for them to dope.

But for some guy who races on weekends and is ultimately in it to see how far he can go with a passionate hobby to dope--that's just inexcusably lame.

 

[ravens]

Time to roll out Chris Comical and his annual "Lance's numbers are equal to or better than any he had during his Tour de France run" script. This time with the caveat that 2004 was better, but only because he "was on a rampage".

Once again, Lance is "months ahead" of his old schedule. Kinda makes you wonder what they were doing wrong all that time, doesn't it?

The only thing good about this is that they won't roll him out again until just before California...I hope.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/01/news/carmichael-armstrong-months-ahead-of-old-schedule_102597



Yes Chris, quite telling indeed.

These quotes by all of them each season are getting tediouser and tediouser. Someone needs to see their numbers go off the chart and say, "I can't believe how crappy my numbers are. I got passed by a kid on training wheels yesterday."

 

[skidmark]

Wow, a Lance-related thread has spun off into 2 off-topic conversations. That's a refreshing first.

 

[ChrisE]

So, should I change my avatar to that of the Pope? Would that make you feel more comfortable, or endow my opinions with a bit more self-righteous gravitas?

I like Berzin because of his form on the bike, not because he was a saint. But now that we are on the subject, name me one major player in the pro cycling scene during the mid-late '90's that did not dope, or was highly suspected of doping. I would like to read this list.

Berzin doped. He is your hero and you slam LA. If you can't figure out the asshat irony here then you have more "issues" than you want to believe.

 

[ChrisE]

Yeah, had I only known...

Again, I'm sorry about the placenta thing. Let's move on.

 

[Berzin]

Berzin doped. He is your hero and you slam LA. If you can't figure out the asshat irony here then you have more "issues" than you want to believe.

I never said Berzin didn't dope and have never held him up as a bastion of clean riding. I do enjoy watching him ride a bike, he has nice form. I hope that clarifies it for you.

And he's not my hero. Never said he was. Two assumptions you've taken to left field just to call me names.

As for me having issues, I never liked Armstrong even before he began winning tours, and when he started doing so I knew something was up.

There have been many dopers in cycling, but Armstrong has made a mockery of the sport in almost every way imaginable. The harm he's done cannot compare to what Berzin or any other of his teammates were doing back when they were riding.

 

[ChrisE]

I never said Berzin didn't dope and have never held him up as a bastion of clean riding. I do enjoy watching him ride a bike, he has nice form. I hope that clarifies it for you.

And he's not my hero. Never said he was. Two assumptions you've taken to left field just to call me names.

As for me having issues, I never liked Armstrong even before he began winning tours, and when he started doing so I knew something was up.

There have been many dopers in cycling, but Armstrong has made a mockery of the sport in almost every way imaginable. The harm he's done cannot compare to what Berzin or any other of his teammates were doing back when they were riding.

Regardless of what you want to say about LA, to say he has "harmed" the sport is misguided IMO in a general sense. He has brought alot of attention to the sport and outside of a few bicycle forums most of the general public either doesn't care or is unaware of PED use.

I would also think drug use is less prevalent today than it was in the mid 90's. Hey, no offense and I am a smarta$$ at times. I just found it funny you have Berzin username and avatar in a doping forum complaining about LA doping.

 

[Race Radio]

Regardless of what you want to say about LA, to say he has "harmed" the sport is misguided IMO in a general sense. He has brought alot of attention to the sport and outside of a few bicycle forums most of the general public either doesn't care or is unaware of PED use.

I would also think drug use is less prevalent today than it was in the mid 90's. Hey, no offense and I am a smarta$$ at times. I just found it funny you have Berzin username and avatar in a doping forum complaining about LA doping.

Lance is one of many riders and DS's whose blatant doping has harmed the sport. This was enabled by the UCI.

I agree that use is less prevalent but that is more due to the fact that the UCI no longer controls testing and the criminalization of doping by many countries.

 

[ChrisE]

Lance is one of many riders and DS's whose blatant doping has harmed the sport. This was enabled by the UCI.

I agree that use is less prevalent but that is more due to the fact that the UCI no longer controls testing and the criminalization of doping by many countries.

If LA hadn't had returned would there still be as much doping in the peloton? Taking your points at face value I'm not sure what that has to do with my response.

I seem to remember OP, Vino, FL, JU, Basso, oil for drugs, etc. happened after 2005. I'm not of the opinion that things have gotten more lax since his return. The sport was doing a good job of harming itself when he was retired, and before 1999.

His presence in the sport brings exposure, and means I can watch the TdF on Versus this year. Regardless of what we think in here, he is an inspiration for millions around the world and that is a good thing for the sport IMO. My response to Berzin was more along those terms; I'm not looking at it solely from a doping POV.

 

[Race Radio]

If LA hadn't had returned would there still be as much doping in the peloton? Taking your points at face value I'm not sure what that has to do with my response.

I seem to remember OP, Vino, FL, JU, Basso, oil for drugs, etc. happened after 2005. I'm not of the opinion that things have gotten more lax since his return. The sport was doing a good job of harming itself when he was retired, and before 1999.

His presence in the sport brings exposure, and means I can watch the TdF on Versus this year. Regardless of what we think in here, he is an inspiration for millions around the world and that is a good thing for the sport IMO. My response to Berzin was more along those terms; I'm not looking at it solely from a doping POV.

I get your point, it is valid. Since the return the visibility has been a positive thing. However Cycling would not have been in such a huge hole if riders like Armstrong and DS's like The Hog had not blatantly ignore the rules for decades.

 

[buckwheat]

Also, not sure why Carmichael's claims are in the doping forum.

Being dubious about Carmichael's connection with doping, is like questioning Charles Manson's ties with murder.

 

[buckwheat]

If LA hadn't had returned would there still be as much doping in the peloton?

Probably not. Everyone knows he's doped and almost untouchable by the authorities so how can the new breed compete?

His presence in the sport brings exposure, and means I can watch the TdF on Versus this year.

Haven't the Germans decided to keep this pornography off their TV?

Regardless of what we think in here, he is an inspiration for millions around the world and that is a good thing for the sport IMO..

Sarah Palin is also an inspiration for millions, so what? Advancing lies is never a good thing for any endeavor.

My response to Berzin was more along those terms; I'm not looking at it solely from a doping POV.

My brain is able to weigh more than one very simple idea at a time. His return is complete and utter bs.

 

[Berzin]

Being dubious about Carmichael's connection with doping, is like questioning Charles Manson's ties with murder.

Chris Carmichael is nothing but Armstrong's accordion monkey. He is the sporting equivalent of a shell company used to hide corporate profits. In and of itself his influence is minimal at best in how Armstrong trains and "prepares".

The true manipulators behind the scenes are Dr. Ferarri, Bruyneel and whomever the team doctor is.

His presence in the sport brings exposure, and means I can watch the TdF on Versus this year. Regardless of what we think in here, he is an inspiration for millions around the world and that is a good thing for the sport IMO.

Prostitutes bring much attention to whichever street corner they work and will create more revenue for the local businesses-that doesn't mean it's good for the neighborhood.

He is an inspiration to millions, but he is a bully and a thug. He's Al Capone without the tax evasion convictions.

My response to Berzin was more along those terms; I'm not looking at it solely from a doping POV.

Neither am I. He should not be a hero. You cannot validate his status in society as a hero to millions when he was a recipient of the most successful doping program the cycling world has and will probably ever see. An athlete created in a lab is in direct contrast to what sport is supposed to be about.

You cannot extricate the hero from the manner in which he perpetrated his athletic feats. If the process was executed with no regard to sporting fair play, then said feats cannot be held in the high regard you mention by the general public. Those who believe are just fooling themselves, and all it does is create a model where cheating and lying become the underlying ethic in athletics.

 

[ChrisE]

OK guys. I agree LA is the devil in the myopic world of buckwheat and Berzin.

BTW, I think prostitution should be legal so maybe I am starting with a moral deficit in this argument.

 

[ravens]

Look, to break my "constant cynicism" mode for a minute I'm going to tell you something that's true (in my experience):

As long as you aren't really unlucky and have very, very poor athletic genetic gifts pretty much anyone can do pretty darn well in amateur bicycle racing as long as they are willing to be in a number of years (probably 3+) of smart, quality, training (8+ hours per week) NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE OUT THERE IS TAKING.

I'm not saying this is the case for you, but I am saying that if there is anyone out there who doesn't race because they worry they'll have to race against dopers I say don't let that stop you. I've said it before and I'll say it again: amateurs are primarily limited by time available to train. If you can make the time and get it done, you will do pretty well as long as you are at least a somewhat average athlete.

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