Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Froome and Quintana must be huge favourites over anyone else.

It was pretty weak in comparison with previous years imo.But very enjoyable!Quintana could be better (or not).

Congrats Froome, good race!

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

The markets react. Froome reclaims favourite status for the Tour, just before Quintana. Nibali and Contador some distance back. Everyone ele astronomically unlikely to win.

They are the big favourites, but Purito, Pinot and Tejay are close.

Even if Uran is well placed after TTT and the team bet for him coud be his moment to show his potential.

Lot of things depends on luck, weather, circunstances... it is difficult to say after to see how are teams just before TTT.

One could be a favourite and to be very strong at the start, but if your team lose 2 riders before TTT you have no options.

People as Landa didnt count really before Giro start. GT are always like this.

Even Porte could win this Tour if Froome has a crash the first days.

Oh no, he can't!

 

[ray j willings]

Froome did very well today , Recovered the best from yesterday " extra nutellla" but lets be honest there was a lot of tired riders out there and TJ definitely paid for yesterdays chasing.
I do enjoy the views. Froome had a bad day and its "he's done he will never win the tour"
Froome had a good day and its " Back to his best , tour favourite"

 

[harryh]

Re: Re:

It was pretty weak in comparison with previous years imo.But very enjoyable!Quintana could be better (or not).

Well, in 2014 Dauphine stage 2, where super strong Froome almost cracked super strong Contador with his 30 secs mutant acceleration, ended in this way: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=26243

 

[argyllflyer]

Nibali has shown nothing towards the finish twice in three days with a tough day on the attack sandwiched between. Froome and TJ made more of a go of both finishes both days he either sat up or was dropped, and spent time yesterday chasing the break - TJ saying Froome was dropped from his group at one point. I don't think it's fair to give Nibali a pass and assume that Froome simply took it easy yesterday. He was well aware what was ahead today and wanted to keep something back as you can't ride full on (these days) every day. If it weren't for Sky's crap TTT he'd be in yellow. I think it is fair to say he he is not where he was in 2013 but he's always been fragile and has been blighted by spells of injury / illness for about 3 years. That he got to the 2013 in such physical condition is remarkable considering his treatment table track record.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

It was pretty weak in comparison with previous years imo.But very enjoyable!Quintana could be better (or not).

Well, in 2014 Dauphine stage 2, where super strong Froome almost cracked super strong Contador with his 30 secs mutant acceleration, ended in this way: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=26243

Froome has not the aceleration of Contador, but can put an strong pace for longer.

Contador was that day at his wheel and he coudnt drop him at the end, so froome was clearly stronger.

 

[DBotero]

Re: Re:

Froome and Quintana must be huge favourites over anyone else.

It was pretty weak in comparison with previous years imo.But very enjoyable!Quintana could be better (or not).

Congrats Froome, good race!

Quintana problem as i see it,is that he doesn't have the kick of Contador/Froome,so i'm really interested how he's gonna drop them if they are in good shape.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

Froome has not the aceleration of Contador, but can put an strong pace for longer.

This is equivalent to being the superior climber. There's a reason the debate about climbing is about w/kg sustainable for 20min or more and not about short accelerations. Though the latter are obviously useful for finishes and for gaining separation, allowing the higher pace the better climber is capable of to have full effect.

Froome may well be the better climber than the Contador of the last few years, I'm leaning that way myself, but we haven't had the sort of direct confrontation with both at their peak needed to conclude it with any degree of certainty. Indirect comparisons based on estimated power don't really allow us to conclude anyone's better than Nibali. Or Horner.

 

[harryh]

Re: Re:

It was pretty weak in comparison with previous years imo.But very enjoyable!Quintana could be better (or not).

Well, in 2014 Dauphine stage 2, where super strong Froome almost cracked super strong Contador with his 30 secs mutant acceleration, ended in this way: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=26243

Froome has not the aceleration of Contador, but can put an strong pace for longer.

Contador was that day at his wheel and he coudnt drop him at the end, so froome was clearly stronger.

I meant that some people seem to remember that in the previous years Froome was a super human or mutant who dropped everyone by minutes in every race

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Froome and Quintana must be huge favourites over anyone else.

It was pretty weak in comparison with previous years imo.But very enjoyable!Quintana could be better (or not).

Congrats Froome, good race!

Quintana problem as i see it,is that he doesn't have the kick of Contador/Froome,so i'm really interested how he's gonna drop them if they are in good shape.

Good point! I pointed it out few times here in previous months and I still dont know the solution.On steep climbs its not a problem because there is not a aero advantage when you wheelsuck rider like Quintana who tries to drop you by constant pace, but on Tour this is a big problem (there arent steep climbs lol)

I dont know, he needs to tire them out by domestics and then do his own high pace to drop them, it will be harder for him but I think he can do it if he will be in better form than 2013.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Froome and Quintana must be huge favourites over anyone else.

It was pretty weak in comparison with previous years imo.But very enjoyable!Quintana could be better (or not).

Congrats Froome, good race!

Quintana problem as i see it,is that he doesn't have the kick of Contador/Froome,so i'm really interested how he's gonna drop them if they are in good shape.

Good point! I pointed it out few times here in previous months and I still dont know the solution.On steep climbs its not a problem because there is not a aero advantage when you wheelsuck rider like Quintana who tries to drop you by constant pace, but on Tour this is a big problem (there arent steep climbs lol)

I dont know, he needs to tire them out by domestics and then do his own high pace to drop them, it will be harder for him but I think he can do it if he will be in better form than 2013.

Dropping good shape AC and CF only on pace? Are you kidding?

It would take Robobasso 06' to do that and still. Quintana isn't anywhere near that level.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Froome has not the aceleration of Contador, but can put an strong pace for longer.

Froome may well be the better climber than the Contador of the last few years

Again, last few years = 2013. Good job.

Vuelta 12', Vuelta 14' and the whole 2014 season + AC's shape at the Tour say hi.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Froome has not the aceleration of Contador, but can put an strong pace for longer.

This is equivalent to being the superior climber. There's a reason the debate about climbing is about w/kg sustainable for 20min or more and not about short accelerations. Though the latter are obviously useful for finishes and for gaining separation, allowing the higher pace the better climber is capable of to have full effect.

Froome may well be the better climber than the Contador of the last few years, I'm leaning that way myself, but we haven't had the sort of direct confrontation with both at their peak needed to conclude it with any degree of certainty. Indirect comparisons based on estimated power don't really allow us to conclude anyone's better than Nibali. Or Horner.

In this era Verbier performances are not posible, maybe in the future, so of course Froome is not so big climber as Contador was, or as Pantani was, or as Poulnikov was,....

If you dont have that aceleration of Contador that allows you to drop in the moment... it is a problem, becouse if someone such your wheel you must stop. IMO froome was stronger than contador in ancares, but Contador pur to him 15 seconds at the end in just 1 km. Just in climbs as zoncolan or Angliru (Ancares has 3 kms with even flat close to the end) That is not important. or in hard climbs as the last one in Andalucia or La Camperona when froome was able to drop Contador. and if you are stronger, onces you put 2 meters, you are goint to put big time.

But Froome is not as good in that slopes than in slopes about 6-7 %. It is more difficult drop people in this ones, but he was able today to drop everybody.

Contador has really strong attack and really strong 10 minutes attack (2-4 Km). Later he starting to fade slowly. In a second effort, he is not so strong.

But if you a complete rider with good recovery as him as him with that you can win a lot of races, especially if nobody knows how to put you in problems. It is not easy do it, anyway.

With a long ITT in wich Froome put time on contador it is not a big problem for him, but if he need to attack, it would be difficult if you use always the same tactic... strong team pace and attack at 5 km to the end. He must look the coun ter attack of contador from far, and later attack again. That is the way.

Respect Quintana, I think he can follow him in the longer climbs.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

Froome has not the aceleration of Contador, but can put an strong pace for longer.

Froome may well be the better climber than the Contador of the last few years

Again, last few years = 2013. Good job.

Vuelta 12', Vuelta 14' and the whole 2014 season + AC's shape at the Tour say hi.

Is this a joke?

Vuelta -12 saw a subpar Froome. Drop in the Tour -12 Froome and he easily wins that race. Do you seriously debate that?

Vuelta 14 wasn't really a good indicator since both crashed at the Tour. Contador was better in the race but that does not say that he is the better climber.

The whole 2014 season?
Never saw Contador do what Froome did during the Dauphine (save his performance in the Dauphine and even then, Froome was the stronger one until his crash).


"AC's shape at the Tour" - Care to elaborate?

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Froome and Quintana must be huge favourites over anyone else.

It was pretty weak in comparison with previous years imo.But very enjoyable!Quintana could be better (or not).

Congrats Froome, good race!

Quintana problem as i see it,is that he doesn't have the kick of Contador/Froome,so i'm really interested how he's gonna drop them if they are in good shape.

Good point! I pointed it out few times here in previous months and I still dont know the solution.On steep climbs its not a problem because there is not a aero advantage when you wheelsuck rider like Quintana who tries to drop you by constant pace, but on Tour this is a big problem (there arent steep climbs lol)

I dont know, he needs to tire them out by domestics and then do his own high pace to drop them, it will be harder for him but I think he can do it if he will be in better form than 2013.

Dropping good shape AC and CF only on pace? Are you kidding?

It would take Robobasso 06' to do that and still. Quintana isn't anywhere near that level.

Nonsense, dopped Basso would have smoked them easily.

We will see, but I think you underestimate Quintana's climbing

 

[SeriousSam]

Blurry thinks I have some insidious agenda against Contador being a good climber or something, so he's always at the ready to let everyone know he thinks Ac is da best, listing races he thinks demonstrate that.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

Froome has not the aceleration of Contador, but can put an strong pace for longer.

This is equivalent to being the superior climber. There's a reason the debate about climbing is about w/kg sustainable for 20min or more and not about short accelerations. Though the latter are obviously useful for finishes and for gaining separation, allowing the higher pace the better climber is capable of to have full effect.

Froome may well be the better climber than the Contador of the last few years, I'm leaning that way myself, but we haven't had the sort of direct confrontation with both at their peak needed to conclude it with any degree of certainty. Indirect comparisons based on estimated power don't really allow us to conclude anyone's better than Nibali. Or Horner.

In this era Verbier performances are not posible, maybe in the future, so of course Froome is not so big climber as Contador was, or as Pantani was, or as Poulnikov was,....

If you dont have that aceleration of Contador that allows you to drop in the moment... it is a problem, becouse if someone such your wheel you must stop. IMO froome was stronger than contador in ancares, but Contador pur to him 15 seconds at the end in just 1 km. Just in climbs as zoncolan or Angliru (Ancares has 3 kms with even flat close to the end) That is not important. or in hard climbs as the last one in Andalucia or La Camperona when froome was able to drop Contador. and if you are stronger, onces you put 2 meters, you are goint to put big time.

But Froome is not as good in that slopes than in slopes about 6-7 %. It is more difficult drop people in this ones, but he was able today to drop everybody.

Contador has really strong attack and really strong 10 minutes attack (2-4 Km). Later he starting to fade slowly. In a second effort, he is not so strong.

But if you a complete rider with good recovery as him as him with that you can win a lot of races, especially if nobody knows how to put you in problems. It is not easy do it, anyway.

With a long ITT in wich Froome put time on contador it is not a big problem for him, but if he need to attack, it would be difficult if you use always the same tactic... strong team pace and attack at 5 km to the end. He must look the coun ter attack of contador from far, and later attack again. That is the way.

Respect Quintana, I think he can follow him in the longer climbs.

The best way of looking at it is probably the (length of effort, w/kg) curve. Could be that someone has the edge for efforts lasting <20min but not for efforts lasting 40 min, but it's not particularly likely as I understand it, because the anaerobic component is small for efforts of that duration anyway. Beyond a certain duration (maybe 15 min after a hard day of racing in a stage race?), if one rider's curve lies above the others, that's not going to change as we increase the duration.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Froome has not the aceleration of Contador, but can put an strong pace for longer.

Froome may well be the better climber than the Contador of the last few years

Again, last few years = 2013. Good job.

Vuelta 12', Vuelta 14' and the whole 2014 season + AC's shape at the Tour say hi.

Is this a joke?

Vuelta -12 saw a subpar Froome. Drop in the Tour -12 Froome and he easily wins that race. Do you seriously debate that?

Vuelta 14 wasn't really a good indicator since both crashed at the Tour. Contador was better in the race but that does not say that he is the better climber.

The whole 2014 season?
Never saw Contador do what Froome did during the Dauphine (save his performance in the Dauphine and even then, Froome was the stronger one until his crash).


"AC's shape at the Tour" - Care to elaborate?

What? Oh yeah, let's just drop in Tour 12' Froome in the Vuelta 12' lmao, what the *** are you talking about? Contador just had no preparation races before that Vuelta, as far as I know Froome ended up 10 minutes off despite taking it easy the whole season and not pushing it at the Tour either.

Vuelta 14', pretty much equal terms, AC dropped his ass. Look at the numbers on Farrapona and Ancares, it's on par with Froome Tour 13' and Contador toyed with him despite crashing later in the Tour with a worse injury.

What did Froome do at the Dauphiné? Win a MTF by 0 second against AC who returning after 8 weeks without racing?
And then Poor Froome can't take a crash like AC in the Giro, starts losing minutes because of it.

I saw however AC dropping him 4 times at the Vuelta during that 2014 season.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re:

Blurry thinks I have some insidious agenda against Contador being a good climber or something, so he's always at the ready to let everyone know he thinks Ac is da best, listing races he thinks demonstrate that.

Thing is, I give facts, what do you do? Just throw your meaningless opinion out there "oh but I think Froome is the better climber' .

Okay cool, apart from 13', anything else to back it up?

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

Froome has not the aceleration of Contador, but can put an strong pace for longer.

Froome may well be the better climber than the Contador of the last few years

Again, last few years = 2013. Good job.

Vuelta 12', Vuelta 14' and the whole 2014 season + AC's shape at the Tour say hi.

Is this a joke?

Vuelta -12 saw a subpar Froome. Drop in the Tour -12 Froome and he easily wins that race. Do you seriously debate that?

Vuelta 14 wasn't really a good indicator since both crashed at the Tour. Contador was better in the race but that does not say that he is the better climber.

The whole 2014 season?
Never saw Contador do what Froome did during the Dauphine (save his performance in the Dauphine and even then, Froome was the stronger one until his crash).


"AC's shape at the Tour" - Care to elaborate?

What? Oh yeah, let's just drop in Tour 12' Froome in the Vuelta 12' lmao, what the **** are you talking about? Contador just had no preparation races before that Vuelta, as far as I know Froome ended up 10 minutes off despite taking it easy the whole season and not pushing it at the Tour either.

Vuelta 14', pretty much equal terms, AC dropped his ass. Look at the numbers on Farrapona and Ancares, it's on par with Froome Tour 13' and Contador toyed with him despite crashing later in the Tour with a worse injury.

What did Froome do at the Dauphiné? Win a MTF by 0 second against AC who returning after 8 weeks without racing?
And then Poor Froome can't take a crash like AC in the Giro, starts losing minutes because of it.

I saw however AC dropping him 4 times at the Vuelta during that 2014 season.

Can't get myself to care enough to argue with fanboys, sorry, didn't know you were one of those, my bad.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

[quote="ILovecycling

Nonsense, dopped Basso would have smoked them easily.

We will see, but I think you underestimate Quintana's climbing

I'm not underestimating it, all I'm saying is that Quintana ain't dropping them on pace. If you think so then you're deluded. Of course, it depends on the form, but if they're both in good form, it's not happening.

 

[LaFlorecita]

WTF how was Contador not impressive in the 2014 season.
He absolutely killed Quintana on Lanciano, he slaughtered Piti in Pais Vasco on a short steep climb, about a week and a half before Piti crushed everyone on Mur de Huy. He went on a rampage trying to save his Dauphine leader's jersey. How was ANYTHING Froome did at the Dauphiné better than that.

 

[SeriousSam]

Blurry, as I explained the last time you chimed in rattling off the list of races and years where AC beat Froome, that misses the point. It's ok though, I'm not attempting to convince you, of all people, of anything, and surely you're not attempting to convince me. But if you want to show what I'm saying to be wrong for the benefit of others, you'd do well to first understand what I'm saying.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re:

Blurry, as I explained the last time you chimed in rattling off the list of races and years where AC beat Froome, that misses the point.

Good, so let's go straight to the main point, please, would you have the decency to explain what makes you think Froome is the better climber?

Apart from just saying it, or relying on the markets odds, what backs it up?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Can't get myself to care enough to argue with fanboys, sorry, didn't know you were one of those, my bad.

Don't be a hypocrite. You are just as biased as these fanboys you talk about, only you hate Contador while they love him.