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Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

Page 289 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

Is Froome over the hill?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 26 35.1%
  • No, the GC finished 40 minutes ago but Froomie is still climbing it

    Votes: 42 56.8%
  • No he is totally winning the Vuelta

    Votes: 17 23.0%

  • Total voters
    74
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
Valv.Piti said:
But is it wrong to assume that they at least were at equal shape, not peaking, say maybe 90%, in the Dauphine?
Yes, it is wrong to assume that. We don't know at which % of their top shape either of them was. They have different build-ups with Froome always racing Romandie while Contador always has a 7-week break before the Dauphiné. It's part of the reason Froome won the Dauphiné in the years he won the Tour, and Contador didn't.

But you just assume then that Froome at that point was in better shape than Contador given that Froome in the past years had been on a higher level than Contador in June? Contador was in super good shape that whole year, so I dont think its out of bounds to assume they were even considering Froome had a poor spring where he struggled to find form compared to Alberto steamrolling all competition.
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
rick james said:
it's almost like some forget the manner that Froome has won his 2 TDF's in.
You mean losing big time in the third week? Don't worry, no one has forgotten about that.
the damage is well and truly done by then, Froome can afford to lose that time. Plus this year Froome was sick, he won TDF while being sick in the 3rd week, scary stuff if he was fully fit for that 3rd week.
 
Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
LaFlorecita said:
Valv.Piti said:
But is it wrong to assume that they at least were at equal shape, not peaking, say maybe 90%, in the Dauphine?
Yes, it is wrong to assume that. We don't know at which % of their top shape either of them was. They have different build-ups with Froome always racing Romandie while Contador always has a 7-week break before the Dauphiné. It's part of the reason Froome won the Dauphiné in the years he won the Tour, and Contador didn't.

But you just assume then that Froome at that point was in better shape than Contador given that Froome in the past years had been on a higher level than Contador in June? Contador was in super good shape that whole year, so I dont think its out of bounds to assume they were even considering Froome had a poor spring where he struggled to find form compared to Alberto steamrolling all competition.
It's about relative shape not absolute. It doesn't matter if Froome was horseshit, you can only compare them if they were at the same % of their top shape, and history has shown that that is unlikely.
 
Re: Re:

rick james said:
LaFlorecita said:
rick james said:
it's almost like some forget the manner that Froome has won his 2 TDF's in.
You mean losing big time in the third week? Don't worry, no one has forgotten about that.
the damage is well and truly done by then, Froome can afford to lose that time. Plus this year Froome was sick, he won TDF while being sick in the 3rd week, scary stuff if he was fully fit for that 3rd week.
Yes and against a Contador in top shape you can't afford to get ill in the 3rd week with only a 1-minute advantage.
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
rick james said:
LaFlorecita said:
rick james said:
it's almost like some forget the manner that Froome has won his 2 TDF's in.
You mean losing big time in the third week? Don't worry, no one has forgotten about that.
the damage is well and truly done by then, Froome can afford to lose that time. Plus this year Froome was sick, he won TDF while being sick in the 3rd week, scary stuff if he was fully fit for that 3rd week.
Yes and against a Contador in top shape you can't afford to get ill in the 3rd week with only a 1-minute advantage.

to be fair he wasn't all that in the 3rd week in the 2015 Giro, he lost something like 3 minutes to Aru.
 
Re: Re:

Singer01 said:
LaFlorecita said:
rick james said:
LaFlorecita said:
rick james said:
it's almost like some forget the manner that Froome has won his 2 TDF's in.
You mean losing big time in the third week? Don't worry, no one has forgotten about that.
the damage is well and truly done by then, Froome can afford to lose that time. Plus this year Froome was sick, he won TDF while being sick in the 3rd week, scary stuff if he was fully fit for that 3rd week.
Yes and against a Contador in top shape you can't afford to get ill in the 3rd week with only a 1-minute advantage.

to be fair he wasn't all that in the 3rd week in the 2015 Giro, he lost something like 3 minutes to Aru.
Do you seriously believe he was in top shape at the Giro? If not, your reply is irrelevant since I clearly stated "Contador in top shape".
 
Re:

rick james said:
really, Bertie has his own thread, keep talk of him over there, we don't need a Froome thread polluted by Bertie talk
Oh cry me a river. Let me remind you who started this discussion:

rick james said:
ray j willings said:
harryh said:
I believe he will be at least as fast as in 2013: https://twitter.com/chrisfroome/status/685890864846094337


He will need to be at his very best at the tour if all the main contenders are in shape.
This will be a big year for his TT. The likes Of Aru will be very aggressive and then if Bertie is in shape, Froome is going to loose time in the Mountains and maybe even Quintana will be more aggressive and learnt for his very conservative tactics at last years tour and the could be a surprise contender as well . Now JV has his hands on Rolland he said there is more to come
http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/01/news/vaughters-on-rolland-he-was-training-like-someone-was-training-in-1975_392667


Ok, Very good, a fully fit Froome won't worry about "bertie" or anyone else, it's almost like you've never seen Froome race a bike
 
The problem with all these arguments is the following " my guy is better because he beat him in this race and wasn't in top shape when he lost in that race." That leaves me with what were the stated goals for a rider at the beginning of the year? He trained with a goal of being in top form for that Race. What were his results?
Everything else is preparation trying to achieve that goal or trying to salvage something from missing that goal. While it may show the strength and character of a rider it doesn't prove he's the best.
 
Re: Re:

Do you seriously believe he was in top shape at the Giro? If not said:
You can't ignore the fact that Contador in top shape (by that I mean beating Froome that hasn't just crashed or came from injury) is just a pigment of your imagination.
The facts are that Froome has won the Tour in 2013 and 2015, both comfortably by destroying everyone on first MTF and then never being in danger of losing the lead, and that he is at the level in Tour that everyone aspires to be (top podium place). Whether others can step up their game? We will see in july. And I dont see Aru as a contender to be honest. 3rd strongest climber in Astana before Landa left, and not an exceptional TTer
 
Re: Re:

damian13ster said:
Do you seriously believe he was in top shape at the Giro? If not said:
You can't ignore the fact that Contador in top shape (by that I mean beating Froome that hasn't just crashed or came from injury) is just a pigment of your imagination.
The facts are that Froome has won the Tour in 2013 and 2015, both comfortably by destroying everyone on first MTF and then never being in danger of losing the lead, and that he is at the level in Tour that everyone aspires to be (top podium place). Whether others can step up their game? We will see in july. And I dont see Aru as a contender to be honest. 3rd strongest climber in Astana before Landa left, and not an exceptional TTer
Stop putting words into my mouth.
 
since 2010 with a stated goal of winning the Tour at the beginning of the year
CF 2 wins
AC 1
Nibs 1
Andy1
Cadel 1

Don't talk about form accidents or other goals. the Tour is THE Goal for any GC contender. Anyone of them would lose every other race in the year in exchange for a Tour win. This is what they train for from now until July
 
cantpedal said:
since 2010 with a stated goal of winning the Tour at the beginning of the year
CF 2 wins
AC 1
Nibs 1
Andy1
Cadel 1

Don't talk about form accidents or other goals. the Tour is THE Goal for any GC contender. Anyone of them would lose every other race in the year in exchange for a Tour win. This is what they train for from now until July

Why can't we compare them starting at 2007? :rolleyes:

Edit: Also your numbers don't make sense. Have Andy and AC both won a Tour since 2010?
 
Re:

cantpedal said:
The problem with all these arguments is the following " my guy is better because he beat him in this race and wasn't in top shape when he lost in that race." That leaves me with what were the stated goals for a rider at the beginning of the year? He trained with a goal of being in top form for that Race. What were his results?
Everything else is preparation trying to achieve that goal or trying to salvage something from missing that goal. While it may show the strength and character of a rider it doesn't prove he's the best.

+++1

It is so annoying ..the 'my guy didn't beat your guy because he wasn't in top shape' bull. No one knows on here whether someone was in top form or not when they crashed out or earlier/later in the season or a GT, etc. And frankly it has no bearing because being in form for a targeted event and not crashing all part of the performance, every bit as much as sprinting or time trialing

The results are all that matter..That is all anyone can be judged by...Because you can take it to the umpteen level and say the guy in 10th place could have won if he was on a better team or trained harder ,or had a few more days to reach top form. etc.Its the worst kind of speculation...finding excuses for the results or someone's performance. Coming up with arbitrary figures on fitness and weight to justify bias opinions without any real credible evidence. Its pathetic really.No one goes on and says if Manchester United were in better form they would have beaten Chelsea in the premiership in previous years..or if Andy Murray was in better from he would have won more Wimbledon, etc, etc . sportsmanship says the best man won and that is accepted.

The truth is that Chris Froome has won the Tour in 2013 and 2015 and was the strongest rider in the race
He remains in 2016 along with team SKY the ones to beat whether he is stronger in the first or last week is neither here nor there . and what is more the riders themselves know this
 
the bottom line is if you are a big fan of bertie the temptation to consider froome's tour wins flukes caused by nonoptimal shape of contador himself is very very big on emotional level, as nibali and quintana are still admittedly regarded as weaker riders, but froome tends to be assessed like an equal opponent at least over the last years period. any discussions about different riders in top form are absolutely senseless. when talking about bertie's shape, most people just imply the 2014 season when he was destroying the entire field, of course bertie at the peak of the 2014 season form is unbeatable if other riders hit the scene in their 2014 shape under the 2014 circumstances. however it's life, not a cycling simulator game and you will never be able to replay the scripts from the past. they were and they ended. a thing i'm all for in suchlike situations is debate without excuses. :d froome was nobody prior the 2011 vuelta and that's his problem. bertie messed up his 2013 prep - it was entirely up to him, no excuses. froome was remorselessly beaten by contador over the whole 2014 season - fair and square. contador got defeated in the 2015 tour and the giro cannot be ascribed as an excuse as i think the probability to be shelled like on psm after the giro was quite big and bertie realized it like no one else, and so on. if nairiro smashes them both in this year's tour, it will be fair too.
 
cantpedal said:
since 2010 with a stated goal of winning the Tour at the beginning of the year
CF 2 wins
AC 1
Nibs 1
Andy1
Cadel 1

Don't talk about form accidents or other goals. the Tour is THE Goal for any GC contender. Anyone of them would lose every other race in the year in exchange for a Tour win. This is what they train for from now until July

agree 100%
the narrative "the Giro is a nicer race, the Giro is more exciting, has better climbs, is less boring" is fine for the fans.
the Tour is THE race for any GT racer who has the strenght to try and win it. full stop.
 
Jspear said:
cantpedal said:
since 2010 with a stated goal of winning the Tour at the beginning of the year
CF 2 wins
AC 1
Nibs 1
Andy1
Cadel 1

Don't talk about form accidents or other goals. the Tour is THE Goal for any GC contender. Anyone of them would lose every other race in the year in exchange for a Tour win. This is what they train for from now until July

Why can't we compare them starting at 2007? :rolleyes:

Edit: Also your numbers don't make sense. Have Andy and AC both won a Tour since 2010?
Clearly this guy is clueless. Maybe he already counted the 2016 edition as a win for Alberto :rolleyes:
Also this "since 2010 with a stated goal of winning the Tour at the beginning of the year" doesn't make any sense either, I don't see that stated anywhere, I only see how many times each of them won since 2010.
 
Re: Re:

HelloDolly said:
cantpedal said:
The problem with all these arguments is the following " my guy is better because he beat him in this race and wasn't in top shape when he lost in that race." That leaves me with what were the stated goals for a rider at the beginning of the year? He trained with a goal of being in top form for that Race. What were his results?
Everything else is preparation trying to achieve that goal or trying to salvage something from missing that goal. While it may show the strength and character of a rider it doesn't prove he's the best.

+++1

It is so annoying ..the 'my guy didn't beat your guy because he wasn't in top shape' bull. No one knows on here whether someone was in top form or not when they crashed out or earlier/later in the season or a GT, etc. And frankly it has no bearing because being in form for a targeted event and not crashing all part of the performance, every bit as much as sprinting or time trialing

The results are all that matter..That is all anyone can be judged by...Because you can take it to the umpteen level and say the guy in 10th place could have won if he was on a better team or trained harder ,or had a few more days to reach top form. etc.Its the worst kind of speculation...finding excuses for the results or someone's performance. Coming up with arbitrary figures on fitness and weight to justify bias opinions without any real credible evidence. Its pathetic really.No one goes on and says if Manchester United were in better form they would have beaten Chelsea in the premiership in previous years..or if Andy Murray was in better from he would have won more Wimbledon, etc, etc . sportsmanship says the best man won and that is accepted.

The truth is that Chris Froome has won the Tour in 2013 and 2015 and was the strongest rider in the race
He remains in 2016 along with team SKY the ones to beat whether he is stronger in the first or last week is neither here nor there . and what is more the riders themselves know this
What if I tell you some of us have followed certain riders for years and can tell when they are feeling well and when they aren't?
 
pastronef said:
cantpedal said:
since 2010 with a stated goal of winning the Tour at the beginning of the year
CF 2 wins
AC 1
Nibs 1
Andy1
Cadel 1

Don't talk about form accidents or other goals. the Tour is THE Goal for any GC contender. Anyone of them would lose every other race in the year in exchange for a Tour win. This is what they train for from now until July

agree 100%
the narrative "the Giro is a nicer race, the Giro is more exciting, has better climbs, is less boring" is fine for the fans.
the Tour is THE race for any GT racer who has the strenght to try and win it. full stop.
Not all riders are obsessed with the Bore de France and I thank the lord for that.
 

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