Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[rick james]

Re:

seems like froome smells the approaching end. wada verdict doesn't bode well for him, pretty much impossible to push oneself really hard in this situation. I don't think he believes he starts the Giro whatsoever.

aye that's why he's been doing massive training blocks

 

[dutchdescent]

Re: Re:

seems like froome smells the approaching end. wada verdict doesn't bode well for him, pretty much impossible to push oneself really hard in this situation. I don't think he believes he starts the Giro whatsoever.

aye that's why he's been doing massive training blocks

About those training blocks in SA. What happened to that workload? Can’t imagine the result of that massive training is his current form? Maybe I am being naïve, but I don’t see the other pros doing that much more in terms of training load, yet they’re seemingly going significantly stronger. I guess we’ll just have to wait :lol:

 

[miguelindurain111]

Re: Re:

seems like froome smells the approaching end. wada verdict doesn't bode well for him, pretty much impossible to push oneself really hard in this situation. I don't think he believes he starts the Giro whatsoever.

aye that's why he's been doing massive training blocks

About those training blocks in SA. What happened to that workload? Can’t imagine the result of that massive training is his current form? Maybe I am being naïve, but I don’t see the other pros doing that much more in terms of training load, yet they’re seemingly going significantly stronger. I guess we’ll just have to wait :lol:

Yeah, the more you train, the stronger you are right after the heavy training block

 

[dutchdescent]

Re: Re:

seems like froome smells the approaching end. wada verdict doesn't bode well for him, pretty much impossible to push oneself really hard in this situation. I don't think he believes he starts the Giro whatsoever.

aye that's why he's been doing massive training blocks

About those training blocks in SA. What happened to that workload? Can’t imagine the result of that massive training is his current form? Maybe I am being naïve, but I don’t see the other pros doing that much more in terms of training load, yet they’re seemingly going significantly stronger. I guess we’ll just have to wait :lol:

Yeah, the more you train, the stronger you are right after the heavy training block

But it’s not right after. It was over a month ago..

 

[huge]

I wouldn't be worried at all. Still 2 months to go before the Giro starts. And he is planning to do the double, therefore it's no surprise that his early season results are worse than in the past. And in any way he has never had big performances during the early months of the year.

 

[dutchdescent]

Re:

I wouldn't be worried at all. Still 2 months to go before the Giro starts. And he is planning to do the double, therefore it's no surprise that his early season results are worse than in the past. And in any way he has never had big performances during the early months of the year.

..except 2013 when he was thermonuclear all early season and first 2 weeks of le Tour. But that’s 5yrs ago and he isn’t 28 anymore so..

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't be worried at all. Still 2 months to go before the Giro starts. And he is planning to do the double, therefore it's no surprise that his early season results are worse than in the past. And in any way he has never had big performances during the early months of the year.

..except 2013 when he was thermonuclear all early season and first 2 weeks of le Tour. But that’s 5yrs ago and he isn’t 28 anymore so..

Froome - providing he will be anyway allowed to start the Giro which is a bit of a questionmark - surely doesn't plan to win the Giro-Tour double riding as he did in 2013. Most likely it will be a boring TT-oriented, 2016-2017 Tour-like style with a giant support of the team.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't be worried at all. Still 2 months to go before the Giro starts. And he is planning to do the double, therefore it's no surprise that his early season results are worse than in the past. And in any way he has never had big performances during the early months of the year.

..except 2013 when he was thermonuclear all early season and first 2 weeks of le Tour. But that’s 5yrs ago and he isn’t 28 anymore so..

Froome - providing he will be anyway allowed to start the Giro which is a bit of a questionmark - surely doesn't plan to win the Giro-Tour double riding as he did in 2013. Most likely it will be a boring TT-oriented, 2016-2017 Tour-like style with a giant support of the team.

Dumoulin might provide a huge problem in that regard in the Giro.

And Movistar will probably have the firepower in the mountains to go absolutely bollocks on those 4 very hard stages. They might lose too much in the first week, but they may make Froome lose anyway. That's all on the condition that Froome doesn't crumble cause a Giro/Tour double is that much harder than Tour/Vuelta.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

seems like froome smells the approaching end. wada verdict doesn't bode well for him, pretty much impossible to push oneself really hard in this situation. I don't think he believes he starts the Giro whatsoever.

aye that's why he's been doing massive training blocks

About those training blocks in SA. What happened to that workload? Can’t imagine the result of that massive training is his current form? Maybe I am being naïve, but I don’t see the other pros doing that much more in terms of training load, yet they’re seemingly going significantly stronger. I guess we’ll just have to wait :lol:

Most of his rivals solo training isn't as minutely detailed in the media the way Froome's is such that we know all the details of mileage, intensity of, terrain, etc... There was talk that he was training so furiously so as to release pent up anger/frustration over his plight and that he would return to competition with a vengence. Hasn't happened. At the same time, as posted earlier, with his season focus being the Giro/Tour double, it would seem that following a similar pattern of race preparation as last year's successful campaign could be the plan of action and would explain the less than dominant performance that we've seen.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

seems like froome smells the approaching end. wada verdict doesn't bode well for him, pretty much impossible to push oneself really hard in this situation. I don't think he believes he starts the Giro whatsoever.

aye that's why he's been doing massive training blocks

About those training blocks in SA. What happened to that workload? Can’t imagine the result of that massive training is his current form? Maybe I am being naïve, but I don’t see the other pros doing that much more in terms of training load, yet they’re seemingly going significantly stronger. I guess we’ll just have to wait :lol:

Most of his rivals solo training isn't as minutely detailed in the media the way Froome's is such that we know all the details of mileage, intensity of, terrain, etc... There was talk that he was training so furiously so as to release pent up anger/frustration over his plight and that he would return to competition with a vengence. Hasn't happened. At the same time, as posted earlier, with his season focus being the Giro/Tour double, it would seem that following a similar pattern of race preparation as last year's successful campaign could be the plan of action and would explain the less than dominant performance that we've seen.

Froome's most dominant GT performances have also seen his most vulnerable final weeks. It could be that the training he requires to be that strong fatigues him too much to maintain it for 3 weeks.

 

[northernsong]

Froome’s trying to pull off a very difficult thing, win a race he’s never won which is forcing him to alter his approach to the season then keep the level needed to then win the race he has historically targeted while at the same time fighting a positive drug test all at an age (32-33) where athletes typically start to tail off. He could pull it off but if the competition shows up he could be in trouble.

With the positive test, Froome’s late career is suddenly starting to feel a bit like late career Contador, a wounded champion determined to not give in. The difference is, Contador’s decline in results (TDF) was accelerated by Froome’s ascent. I’m not sure there’s anyone in the peloton (rider or team) that is quite ready to rise to the challenge. But the good news for fans is that this year it doesn’t need to be one guy. It can be one guy in the Giro and another in the Tour. Froome’s taking a huge gamble, which you have to respect (ignoring the clinic stuff for a minute). Winning the Giro-Tour double would cap his run of dominance but losing might speed up its end.

 

[dutchdescent]

Froome’s trying to pull off a very difficult thing, win a race he’s never won which is forcing him to alter his approach to the season then keep the level needed to then win the race he has historically targeted while at the same time fighting a positive drug test all at an age (32-33) where athletes typically start to tail off. He could pull it off but if the competition shows up he could be in trouble.

With the positive test, Froome’s late career is suddenly starting to feel a bit like late career Contador, a wounded champion determined to not give in. The difference is, Contador’s decline in results (TDF) was accelerated by Froome’s ascent. I’m not sure there’s anyone in the peloton (rider or team) that is quite ready to rise to the challenge. But the good news for fans is that this year it doesn’t need to be one guy. It can be one guy in the Giro and another in the Tour. Froome’s taking a huge gamble, which you have to respect (ignoring the clinic stuff for a minute). Winning the Giro-Tour double would cap his run of dominance but losing might speed up its end.

This! Well said

 

[Red Rick]

Froome’s trying to pull off a very difficult thing, win a race he’s never won which is forcing him to alter his approach to the season then keep the level needed to then win the race he has historically targeted while at the same time fighting a positive drug test all at an age (32-33) where athletes typically start to tail off. He could pull it off but if the competition shows up he could be in trouble.

With the positive test, Froome’s late career is suddenly starting to feel a bit like late career Contador, a wounded champion determined to not give in. The difference is, Contador’s decline in results (TDF) was accelerated by Froome’s ascent. I’m not sure there’s anyone in the peloton (rider or team) that is quite ready to rise to the challenge. But the good news for fans is that this year it doesn’t need to be one guy. It can be one guy in the Giro and another in the Tour. Froome’s taking a huge gamble, which you have to respect (ignoring the clinic stuff for a minute). Winning the Giro-Tour double would cap his run of dominance but losing might speed up its end.

Contador's decline in results in the Tour isn't even due to the rise of Froome. It's due to his own decline and due crashing in every Tour. As for Froome's decline, it's not like he has any margin to play with, and as soon as Sky have better options, I don't think he'll get to lead the team anymore. Sky saved his behind a number of times, and I don't think we can blindly assume Froome can do what an ageing Contador could on a weak team. The last 3 GTs Froome has won, he's also been greatly aided by main opponents missing their peak entirely, cause it's not like he's had the top climbing performances of the year in either 2016 or 2017.

It's not certain Froome can still handle peak Quintana, who's not declining any time soon. Egan Bernal might set the new standard in a year or 2. Tom Dumoulin has quickly become a superior TT'er with great climbing ability in top shape. It's not like there's nobody to wack Froome of his spot.

 

[MuskyOurSaviour]

Sky quite often finished Tour with 8 man, I think that experience will certainly help them a lot

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Sky quite often finished Tour with 8 man, I think that experience will certainly help them a lot

True.

But now if they have someone crashing out they're down to 7.

 

[Jspear]

So plenty think he’s declining (at least slowly)...so now he plans the double? That doesn’t seem logical and sky seem to only ride big races for the win. I think, in Froomes mind at least, he’ll be in great form.

 

[northernsong]

Froome’s trying to pull off a very difficult thing, win a race he’s never won which is forcing him to alter his approach to the season then keep the level needed to then win the race he has historically targeted while at the same time fighting a positive drug test all at an age (32-33) where athletes typically start to tail off. He could pull it off but if the competition shows up he could be in trouble.

With the positive test, Froome’s late career is suddenly starting to feel a bit like late career Contador, a wounded champion determined to not give in. The difference is, Contador’s decline in results (TDF) was accelerated by Froome’s ascent. I’m not sure there’s anyone in the peloton (rider or team) that is quite ready to rise to the challenge. But the good news for fans is that this year it doesn’t need to be one guy. It can be one guy in the Giro and another in the Tour. Froome’s taking a huge gamble, which you have to respect (ignoring the clinic stuff for a minute). Winning the Giro-Tour double would cap his run of dominance but losing might speed up its end.

Contadors decline in results in the Tour isn't even due to the rise of Froome. It's due to his own decline and due crashing in every Tour. As for Froome's decline, it's not like he has any margin to play with, and as soon as Sky have better options, I don't think he'll get to lead the team anymore. Sky saved his behind a number of times, and I don't think we can blindly assume Froome can do what an ageing Contador could on a weak team. The last 3 GTs Froome has won, he's also been greatly aided by main opponents missing their peak entirely, cause it's not like he's had the top climbing performances of the year in either 2016 or 2017.

It's not certain Froome can still handle peak Quintana, who's not declining any time soon. Egan Bernal might set the new standard in a year or 2. Tom Dumoulin has quickly become a superior TT'er with great climbing ability in top shape. Grand Tours will start with smaller teams from now on, and that's not gonna help team Sky. It's not like there's nobody to wack Froome of his spot.

Contador didn't do himself any favors with the crashes and you can't rewrite history but without Froome in the picture Contador would have continued to be the more or less undisputed top GT rider with maybe some push from Nibali and Quintana. Post-ban Contador always seemed to be pressing in a way that he wasn't pre-ban. I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that he knew he was below Froome and Sky's level when it counted. Since his rise, Froome is yet to ride a meaningful GT that was not his to lose. And in his mind, I'm sure he thinks he (and Sky) can continue that dynamic by managing to his skills even as they diminish. But like Mike Tyson said, everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Question is, who's going to connect with that punch. You've got some good names there and there are others lurking, which is why the next few months could get interesting.

 

[dacooley]

no one declines purely due to dropping his own capacity. it's always a combo of factors involving both inability to reach your own peak form and chief rivals getting stronger. the first makes the second more likely and other way round. granted, not certain whether froome can handle a tip top form quintana as well as uncertain whether perfectly fit quintana would beat froome. in a gt with a soft amount of time trialing, their level is very close. details determine a winner.

 

[miguelindurain111]

Re: Re:

seems like froome smells the approaching end. wada verdict doesn't bode well for him, pretty much impossible to push oneself really hard in this situation. I don't think he believes he starts the Giro whatsoever.

aye that's why he's been doing massive training blocks

About those training blocks in SA. What happened to that workload? Can’t imagine the result of that massive training is his current form? Maybe I am being naïve, but I don’t see the other pros doing that much more in terms of training load, yet they’re seemingly going significantly stronger. I guess we’ll just have to wait :lol:

Yeah, the more you train, the stronger you are right after the heavy training block

But it’s not right after. It was over a month ago..

Nearly 140 hours of training in January, 50 hours in February before Ruta del Sol, then a training camp in Teide before T-A.

 

[Amazinmets87]

Froome’s trying to pull off a very difficult thing, win a race he’s never won which is forcing him to alter his approach to the season then keep the level needed to then win the race he has historically targeted while at the same time fighting a positive drug test all at an age (32-33) where athletes typically start to tail off. He could pull it off but if the competition shows up he could be in trouble.

With the positive test, Froome’s late career is suddenly starting to feel a bit like late career Contador, a wounded champion determined to not give in. The difference is, Contador’s decline in results (TDF) was accelerated by Froome’s ascent. I’m not sure there’s anyone in the peloton (rider or team) that is quite ready to rise to the challenge. But the good news for fans is that this year it doesn’t need to be one guy. It can be one guy in the Giro and another in the Tour. Froome’s taking a huge gamble, which you have to respect (ignoring the clinic stuff for a minute). Winning the Giro-Tour double would cap his run of dominance but losing might speed up its end.

Contador's decline in results in the Tour isn't even due to the rise of Froome. It's due to his own decline and due crashing in every Tour. As for Froome's decline, it's not like he has any margin to play with, and as soon as Sky have better options, I don't think he'll get to lead the team anymore. Sky saved his behind a number of times, and I don't think we can blindly assume Froome can do what an ageing Contador could on a weak team. The last 3 GTs Froome has won, he's also been greatly aided by main opponents missing their peak entirely, cause it's not like he's had the top climbing performances of the year in either 2016 or 2017.

It's not certain Froome can still handle peak Quintana, who's not declining any time soon. Egan Bernal might set the new standard in a year or 2. Tom Dumoulin has quickly become a superior TT'er with great climbing ability in top shape. It's not like there's nobody to wack Froome of his spot.

Really? I still say Contador had strong probability of winning the '13 Tour if not for Froome's participation. Agree on all other post ban Tours

 

[Red Rick]

Froome’s trying to pull off a very difficult thing, win a race he’s never won which is forcing him to alter his approach to the season then keep the level needed to then win the race he has historically targeted while at the same time fighting a positive drug test all at an age (32-33) where athletes typically start to tail off. He could pull it off but if the competition shows up he could be in trouble.

With the positive test, Froome’s late career is suddenly starting to feel a bit like late career Contador, a wounded champion determined to not give in. The difference is, Contador’s decline in results (TDF) was accelerated by Froome’s ascent. I’m not sure there’s anyone in the peloton (rider or team) that is quite ready to rise to the challenge. But the good news for fans is that this year it doesn’t need to be one guy. It can be one guy in the Giro and another in the Tour. Froome’s taking a huge gamble, which you have to respect (ignoring the clinic stuff for a minute). Winning the Giro-Tour double would cap his run of dominance but losing might speed up its end.

Contador's decline in results in the Tour isn't even due to the rise of Froome. It's due to his own decline and due crashing in every Tour. As for Froome's decline, it's not like he has any margin to play with, and as soon as Sky have better options, I don't think he'll get to lead the team anymore. Sky saved his behind a number of times, and I don't think we can blindly assume Froome can do what an ageing Contador could on a weak team. The last 3 GTs Froome has won, he's also been greatly aided by main opponents missing their peak entirely, cause it's not like he's had the top climbing performances of the year in either 2016 or 2017.

It's not certain Froome can still handle peak Quintana, who's not declining any time soon. Egan Bernal might set the new standard in a year or 2. Tom Dumoulin has quickly become a superior TT'er with great climbing ability in top shape. It's not like there's nobody to wack Froome of his spot.

Really? I still say Contador had strong probability of winning the '13 Tour if not for Froome's participation. Agree on all other post ban Tours

Contador was very weak in '13. He got 4th and apart from the top 4 that field wasn't great either. If Froome and Sky hadn't destroyed him, Movistar and Quintana would have anyway.

2014 will always be the Tour that never was.

 

[Amazinmets87]

Froome’s trying to pull off a very difficult thing, win a race he’s never won which is forcing him to alter his approach to the season then keep the level needed to then win the race he has historically targeted while at the same time fighting a positive drug test all at an age (32-33) where athletes typically start to tail off. He could pull it off but if the competition shows up he could be in trouble.

With the positive test, Froome’s late career is suddenly starting to feel a bit like late career Contador, a wounded champion determined to not give in. The difference is, Contador’s decline in results (TDF) was accelerated by Froome’s ascent. I’m not sure there’s anyone in the peloton (rider or team) that is quite ready to rise to the challenge. But the good news for fans is that this year it doesn’t need to be one guy. It can be one guy in the Giro and another in the Tour. Froome’s taking a huge gamble, which you have to respect (ignoring the clinic stuff for a minute). Winning the Giro-Tour double would cap his run of dominance but losing might speed up its end.

Contador's decline in results in the Tour isn't even due to the rise of Froome. It's due to his own decline and due crashing in every Tour. As for Froome's decline, it's not like he has any margin to play with, and as soon as Sky have better options, I don't think he'll get to lead the team anymore. Sky saved his behind a number of times, and I don't think we can blindly assume Froome can do what an ageing Contador could on a weak team. The last 3 GTs Froome has won, he's also been greatly aided by main opponents missing their peak entirely, cause it's not like he's had the top climbing performances of the year in either 2016 or 2017.

It's not certain Froome can still handle peak Quintana, who's not declining any time soon. Egan Bernal might set the new standard in a year or 2. Tom Dumoulin has quickly become a superior TT'er with great climbing ability in top shape. It's not like there's nobody to wack Froome of his spot.

Really? I still say Contador had strong probability of winning the '13 Tour if not for Froome's participation. Agree on all other post ban Tours

Contador was very weak in '13. He got 4th and apart from the top 4 that field wasn't great either. If Froome and Sky hadn't destroyed him, Movistar and Quintana would have anyway.

2014 will always be the Tour that never was.

Contador started the final competitive GT stage in 2nd place. It's safe to assume that if not for Froome he would have been in yellow.

 

[Red Rick]

Froome’s trying to pull off a very difficult thing, win a race he’s never won which is forcing him to alter his approach to the season then keep the level needed to then win the race he has historically targeted while at the same time fighting a positive drug test all at an age (32-33) where athletes typically start to tail off. He could pull it off but if the competition shows up he could be in trouble.

With the positive test, Froome’s late career is suddenly starting to feel a bit like late career Contador, a wounded champion determined to not give in. The difference is, Contador’s decline in results (TDF) was accelerated by Froome’s ascent. I’m not sure there’s anyone in the peloton (rider or team) that is quite ready to rise to the challenge. But the good news for fans is that this year it doesn’t need to be one guy. It can be one guy in the Giro and another in the Tour. Froome’s taking a huge gamble, which you have to respect (ignoring the clinic stuff for a minute). Winning the Giro-Tour double would cap his run of dominance but losing might speed up its end.

Contador's decline in results in the Tour isn't even due to the rise of Froome. It's due to his own decline and due crashing in every Tour. As for Froome's decline, it's not like he has any margin to play with, and as soon as Sky have better options, I don't think he'll get to lead the team anymore. Sky saved his behind a number of times, and I don't think we can blindly assume Froome can do what an ageing Contador could on a weak team. The last 3 GTs Froome has won, he's also been greatly aided by main opponents missing their peak entirely, cause it's not like he's had the top climbing performances of the year in either 2016 or 2017.

It's not certain Froome can still handle peak Quintana, who's not declining any time soon. Egan Bernal might set the new standard in a year or 2. Tom Dumoulin has quickly become a superior TT'er with great climbing ability in top shape. It's not like there's nobody to wack Froome of his spot.

Really? I still say Contador had strong probability of winning the '13 Tour if not for Froome's participation. Agree on all other post ban Tours

Contador was very weak in '13. He got 4th and apart from the top 4 that field wasn't great either. If Froome and Sky hadn't destroyed him, Movistar and Quintana would have anyway.

2014 will always be the Tour that never was.

Contador started the final competitive GT stage in 2nd place. It's safe to assume that if not for Froome he would have been in yellow.

That's not a safe assumption by any stretch of the imagination. In any case, the race would've been 100% different from the first mountain stage onwards. Tactical decisions are very likely to be completely different from that point on.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Hmm, Contador was horrible on the MTFs. Truly horrible by his standards. He had a great time trial and did some stuff in the crosswinds (he had an extremely strong team, probably stronger than Sky's), but it didn't matter since he was dirt. Again, by his lofty standards.

Contador definitely wouldn't have won that race had Froome not been there. He would maybe have been in yellow going into the last stage, who knows, but Quintana and Purito were not only one, but two levels above him in the Alps.

 

[movingtarget]

Froome’s trying to pull off a very difficult thing, win a race he’s never won which is forcing him to alter his approach to the season then keep the level needed to then win the race he has historically targeted while at the same time fighting a positive drug test all at an age (32-33) where athletes typically start to tail off. He could pull it off but if the competition shows up he could be in trouble.

With the positive test, Froome’s late career is suddenly starting to feel a bit like late career Contador, a wounded champion determined to not give in. The difference is, Contador’s decline in results (TDF) was accelerated by Froome’s ascent. I’m not sure there’s anyone in the peloton (rider or team) that is quite ready to rise to the challenge. But the good news for fans is that this year it doesn’t need to be one guy. It can be one guy in the Giro and another in the Tour. Froome’s taking a huge gamble, which you have to respect (ignoring the clinic stuff for a minute). Winning the Giro-Tour double would cap his run of dominance but losing might speed up its end.

Contador's decline in results in the Tour isn't even due to the rise of Froome. It's due to his own decline and due crashing in every Tour. As for Froome's decline, it's not like he has any margin to play with, and as soon as Sky have better options, I don't think he'll get to lead the team anymore. Sky saved his behind a number of times, and I don't think we can blindly assume Froome can do what an ageing Contador could on a weak team. The last 3 GTs Froome has won, he's also been greatly aided by main opponents missing their peak entirely, cause it's not like he's had the top climbing performances of the year in either 2016 or 2017.

It's not certain Froome can still handle peak Quintana, who's not declining any time soon. Egan Bernal might set the new standard in a year or 2. Tom Dumoulin has quickly become a superior TT'er with great climbing ability in top shape. It's not like there's nobody to wack Froome of his spot.

i was shocked at how mediocre Quintana was in the Giro by his own standards re 2013-15. That looks like decline to me or poor preparation. The only thing on his side is his age. It was a stupid idea to target two GTs last year especially when Froome was far from convincing in the 2016 Tour. He should have had only one thing on his mind last year.

Contador's bike handling ability has to be questioned later in his career as many of the crashes he was involved in were self inflicted. I think his climbing deteriorated and even his TT wasn't what it was. He seemed to change his style with his climbing also and wasn't spinning so much. Of course the crashes added to the problems but ask Gesink and many others about crashes, it's part of the sport. The crash Evans had in 2008 definitely didn't help him. The way Contador rode in the Vuelta I think he retired a bit early but with him it was all about winning and I think the Tour debacle re post 2010 probably affected him. Oddly he never such issues in the other two GTs.