Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[Bardamu]

Froome getting into form in the third week vs the rest of the peloton being dead by now.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Everyone here is giving him way too much credit re tactics. Today was just pure, brute, demoralising, crushing strength. It's very easy to attack from 80km when you then gain 30-40 seconds on the way to Finestre. And Sestriere.

Nonsense. For a start, he gained a third of his final advantage on a descent. That's nothing to do with brute, crushing strength.

And it's absolute bs to say its 'easy to attack from 80 kms'. It was a massive gamble - his team were in control of the stage at the time - he could have continued to grind it out for much further. But the gamble paid off and one which most other riders wouldn't have the balls to take.

The lengths to which some posters are going to disparage one of the all time great rides is bizarre to see. I'd have thought even the biggest Dumoulin fanboys could appreciate the drama on that stage.

 

[YavorD]

Legendary stuff... you gotta have some big balls to do it...
In all fairness, ever since Finestre it was mainly mano-a-mano Froome against Dumoulin (well, Reichenbach took some pulls but he was really wasted), so surviving 80 km alone was doable.. Still, this is far from over, after that insane stage and effort we have really hard stage tomorrow, everything could happen.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Froome getting into form in the third week vs the rest of the peloton being dead by now.

He climbed Finestre in 1:04 - 75km from the finish. Froome's in incredible shape.

 

[Arked]

Re:

Froome getting into form in the third week vs the rest of the peloton being dead by now.

I think that's exactly what happened here. Froome power numbers didn't look inhuman too. Just riding high tempo. It's nothing he didn't do in training before (famous >40km/h avg in mountains strava training ride).

 

[dacooley]

only a man forged in steel can deliver suchlike perfomances. chapeau.

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

Re:

Froome getting into form in the third week vs the rest of the peloton being dead by now.

Thats and Dumoulain being massively overrated and everyone getting amnesia about the already well-rated Yates, Pozz, et al

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Everyone here is giving him way too much credit re tactics. Today was just pure, brute, demoralising, crushing strength. It's very easy to attack from 80km when you then gain 30-40 seconds on the way to Finestre. And Sestriere.

Nonsense. For a start, he gained a third of his final advantage on a descent. That's nothing to do with brute, crushing strength.

And it's absolute bs to say its 'easy to attack from 80 kms'. It was a massive gamble - his team were in control of the stage at the time - he could have continued to grind it out for much further. But the gamble paid off and one which most other riders wouldn't have the balls to take.

The lengths to which some posters are going to disparage one of the all time great rides is bizarre to see. I'd have thought even the biggest Dumoulin fanboys could appreciate the drama on that stage.

Considering Dumoulin did the bulk of the work, Froome essentially put three minutes into Tom ! Not a bad days work for any GC rider I would think..........

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Everyone here is giving him way too much credit re tactics. Today was just pure, brute, demoralising, crushing strength. It's very easy to attack from 80km when you then gain 30-40 seconds on the way to Finestre. And Sestriere.

Nonsense. For a start, he gained a third of his final advantage on a descent. That's nothing to do with brute, crushing strength.

And it's absolute bs to say its 'easy to attack from 80 kms'. It was a massive gamble - his team were in control of the stage at the time - he could have continued to grind it out for much further. But the gamble paid off and one which most other riders wouldn't have the balls to take.

The lengths to which some posters are going to disparage one of the all time great rides is bizarre to see. I'd have thought even the biggest Dumoulin fanboys could appreciate the drama on that stage.

It was barely a gamble. He needed three minutes, had nothing to lose and couldn't attack on Sestriere. He gained 50 seconds on a descent, yes, but never at any point, despite being alone for 80km, lost any time, apart from the final 600m. It was a very, very calculated risk, and one with minimal negative return. I don't think I'm disparaging it. It was the best ride, without doubt, since Landis. But that was down to legs, not tactics. Which doesn't make it any better or worse.

 

[Taxus4a]

If was clear in this Giro everything could change today.

Usually we have 2 or 3 stages this way.. this year just this one, and a little bit tomoroow and Zoncolan, but the only really big climb to climb and down was this one. Froome was improving day by day after his crash, and he was predicted to be at his best at the end of the Giro,

He is bad on the rain, so he payed Zoncolan effort on the rain, but he did a good ITT, close to Doumpulin and he is the best GC contender and the best climber in this Giro. We dont have here Landa or Quintana (in his best version, no last year Giro), so in a climb as Finestre he is able to blow up everything. And after a clib like that, eberybody is destroyed. we saw how Basso drop to his wheel Simoni in Aprica, or Landa droping as well Contador...there werent lot of domestiques to attack, it was just 1 agaings 3, with a climb as Sestriere, so he was gaining more time on the flat, but he get his main gap descending Finestre.

It is an historic victory, but yu just need to have the stronger with time lost at the end of a GT and a steg with this king of profile, Finestre in the second part of the stage, but quite far form the finish, and the rest not too flat. Froome has never needed to do something like that in this situation, but froome is not like Contador, who has a stronger attack but he is fadding later slowly, Froome can hang an attack from far, he is a diesel, but with a big engine. Domoulin as well, but Froome is a better climber.

With sunny days, stronger team and without crashes, he would have won this Giro quite easy, becouse he is the best of this race (with more ITT and nomal climbs Domoulin is as strong), but of course is better this way, a champion of his level is better to be remembered with a day as today, no with the sensation of the team is his main gun.

 

[Bardamu]

Re:

I said once that Froome was maybe the greatest roleur in the world but he was never really tested. That was and is still overstating it.

But still, all the guys saying over the years that Quintana should attack him over the valleys got a taste of what that would've looked like.

For being such a great TT'er, I don't have the impression that Dumoulin is a great rouleur.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Everyone here is giving him way too much credit re tactics. Today was just pure, brute, demoralising, crushing strength. It's very easy to attack from 80km when you then gain 30-40 seconds on the way to Finestre. And Sestriere.

Nonsense. For a start, he gained a third of his final advantage on a descent. That's nothing to do with brute, crushing strength.

And it's absolute bs to say its 'easy to attack from 80 kms'. It was a massive gamble - his team were in control of the stage at the time - he could have continued to grind it out for much further. But the gamble paid off and one which most other riders wouldn't have the balls to take.

The lengths to which some posters are going to disparage one of the all time great rides is bizarre to see. I'd have thought even the biggest Dumoulin fanboys could appreciate the drama on that stage.

It is not a question of 50, 60, 80 or 100 Km...it is a question of profile of the stage and race situation. The best moment was that... if you try at the end of Finestre is not enough climb to make damage, in Sestriere you cant drope to everybody even with Finestre on the legs.. and the final climb was hard but not to put more than one minute even with people exausted.

He tried to have domestiques on the break...De la Cruz and Henao were there, but they were caught just before Finestre, so the second option to win the Giro was to put a high pace in Finestre and to try alone..if anybody follow him, he must try alone. He is going to be tired, but after a climb as Finestre at the end of the Giro, everybdy is tired.. to be 3 againts 1 with another climb quite easy but quite close as Sestriere is not necessary enough to figh againts a stronger rider...

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

I said once that Froome was maybe the greatest roleur in the world but he was never really tested. That was and is still overstating it.

But still, all the guys saying over the years that Quintana should attack him over the valleys got a taste of what that would've looked like.

For being such a great TT'er, I don't have the impression that Dumoulin is a great rouleur.

Of course not after a big climb- Finestre is not a normal climb, is a clib for climbers..if you give everything in the finestre, you cant be at your best for the flat...and he must save something to Jaffreau.

 

[Taxus4a]

If he do the double again this year, it would be 4 GT in a row, historic. But this year in the Tour he will face 2 superclimbers in the same team....but there is a long flat forst week much better for him. Froome will put in this first week and the first mountain stage big time to the climbers.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Actually I have less respect for him after today, and anything else I have to say only belongs in the clinic section of the boards.

Although you are not wrong, the irony is strong coming from the biggest Valverde fan of this forum.

My problem with Froome's performance today is that I now have more respect for Lance as a racer (not person, totally different issue) than I did before today.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Re:

If he do the double again this year, it would be 4 GT in a row, historic. But this year in the Tour he will face 2 superclimbers in the same team....but there is a long flat forst week much better for him. Froome will put in this first week and the first mountain stage big time to the climbers.

I don't think he'll win the Tour - the Giro was too hard and there'll be fresh competitors in this very mountainous Tour.
That being said, if he wins Giro tomorrow he'll make great history: non-calendar slam of all 3 GT - has there ever been a rider who was current winner of all 3 GT at some time?

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

If he do the double again this year, it would be 4 GT in a row, historic. But this year in the Tour he will face 2 superclimbers in the same team....but there is a long flat forst week much better for him. Froome will put in this first week and the first mountain stage big time to the climbers.

Well, the other double, or the first double, except it'll be his second...
Are the Giro-Tour and the Tour-Vuelta doubles considered equal?

 

[rlntlssly]

Re: Re:

If he do the double again this year, it would be 4 GT in a row, historic. But this year in the Tour he will face 2 superclimbers in the same team....but there is a long flat forst week much better for him. Froome will put in this first week and the first mountain stage big time to the climbers.

I don't think he'll win the Tour - the Giro was too hard and there'll be fresh competitors in this very mountainous Tour.
That being said, if he wins Giro tomorrow he'll make great history: non-calendar slam of all 3 GT - has there ever been a rider who was current winner of all 3 GT at some time?

Yes, Merckx (72-73) and Hinault (82-83). None since the Vuelta moved to later in the year.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Actually I have less respect for him after today, and anything else I have to say only belongs in the clinic section of the boards.

Although you are not wrong, the irony is strong coming from the biggest Valverde fan of this forum.

My problem with Froome's performance today is that I now have more respect for Lance as a racer (not person, totally different issue) than I did before today.

Froome and Sky already went through the Lance playbook in 2013 and 2015 - utterly crushing everyone into the ground in both the TTs and the mountains.

This Giro it looks like he's been digging out his old Coppi or Bartali showreels for inspiration. This is much more entertaining.

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

Re: Re:

If he do the double again this year, it would be 4 GT in a row, historic. But this year in the Tour he will face 2 superclimbers in the same team....but there is a long flat forst week much better for him. Froome will put in this first week and the first mountain stage big time to the climbers.

I don't think he'll win the Tour - the Giro was too hard and there'll be fresh competitors in this very mountainous Tour.
That being said, if he wins Giro tomorrow he'll make great history: non-calendar slam of all 3 GT - has there ever been a rider who was current winner of all 3 GT at some time?

Mercx and Hinault but the season calendar looked very different back then

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

If he do the double again this year, it would be 4 GT in a row, historic. But this year in the Tour he will face 2 superclimbers in the same team....but there is a long flat forst week much better for him. Froome will put in this first week and the first mountain stage big time to the climbers.

I don't think he'll win the Tour - the Giro was too hard and there'll be fresh competitors in this very mountainous Tour.
That being said, if he wins Giro tomorrow he'll make great history: non-calendar slam of all 3 GT - has there ever been a rider who was current winner of all 3 GT at some time?

He didnt star the Giro at his best....he is not tired this year. He had showed he can do 2 GT in a row very strong in both of them. Landa did lats year. He showed legs to have won both Giro and Tour.

The Tour is good for climbers, but the long forst week with cobbles is a big challenge for them.

He first have to win tomorrow the Giro, Domoulin is close, but Froome has a good recover and he is improving his shape. He has not a superteam, but he has a good team. Rain his is only treat for tomorrow IMO, at it was the day after Zoncolan, but the kind of climbs for tomorrow are very good for him, longs, hards but no superstep.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Re: Re:

If he do the double again this year, it would be 4 GT in a row, historic. But this year in the Tour he will face 2 superclimbers in the same team....but there is a long flat forst week much better for him. Froome will put in this first week and the first mountain stage big time to the climbers.

I don't think he'll win the Tour - the Giro was too hard and there'll be fresh competitors in this very mountainous Tour.
That being said, if he wins Giro tomorrow he'll make great history: non-calendar slam of all 3 GT - has there ever been a rider who was current winner of all 3 GT at some time?

He didnt star the Giro at his best....he is not tired this year. He had showed he can do 2 GT in a row very strong in both of them. Landa did lats year. He showed legs to have won both Giro and Tour.

The Tour is good for climbers, but the long forst week with cobbles is a big challenge for them.

He first have to win tomorrow the Giro, Domoulin is close, but Froome has a good recover and he is improving his shape. He has not a superteam, but he has a good team. Rain his is only treat for tomorrow IMO, at it was the day after Zoncolan, but the kind of climbs for tomorrow are very good for him, longs, hards but no superstep.

Giro-Tour double is incredibly hard because of two factors:
-very hard Giro parcours
-highest level of competition at the Tour
These are reasons why the likes of Contador and Quintana couldn't do this double and it hasn't been done for 20 years. Froome will be very tired after this Giro - today's effort alone was worth 2-3 conventional mountain stages (hiding behind Sky train most of the time) plus crashes never influence rider's physical form well as one struggles during stages. I just can't see him beating an in-form Quintana on this route having done such a hard Giro. Not only that: he'll probably lose to a few other riders as well. I'll believe his tour victory when I see it.

 

[Netserk]

While I didn't like him one bit the first couple of years after his transformation, I now often have wildly varying feelings towards him, but today was quite clear. What a ride. What a champion. This was so, so impressive. A miraculous comeback, and a mighty determination. It is the hope of witnessing such displays that is a large part of why I watch cycling.

Probably the strongest will in today's cycling.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

While I didn't like him one bit the first couple of years after his transformation, I now often have wildly varying feelings towards him, but today was quite clear. What a ride. What a champion. This was so, so impressive. A miraculous comeback, and a mighty determination. It is the hope of witnessing such displays that is a large part of why I watch cycling.

Probably the strongest will in today's cycling.

Well, I still don't like him as a person tbh. But I don't hate him by any means, and even if I did, Im sure I would be able to appreciate his effort today. Because if you don't, IMO, you are really not a real cycling fan. Because what he did today was amazing and something that happens very, very rarely. Of course the situation was perfect today, but still, not many had tried to go solo, its wildly different to what we have seen from Contador, Quintana and Nibali in the past where they have caught teammates in valleys etc and laid the foundations to victory. None of that happened today.

What a ride, and yes, what a champion.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

While I didn't like him one bit the first couple of years after his transformation, I now often have wildly varying feelings towards him, but today was quite clear. What a ride. What a champion. This was so, so impressive. A miraculous comeback, and a mighty determination. It is the hope of witnessing such displays that is a large part of why I watch cycling.

Probably the strongest will in today's cycling.

This. I haven't been a fan of him either, but this kind of show is surely why everyone watches cycling. At least for those who are a fan of the sport itself primarily, rather than of individual personalities.

All the snide clinic references and comments that this is bad for cycling are way misplaced imo. This is exactly the kind of action and drama that cycling needs. Dumoulin trudging his way along to a 3 minute win, despite never animating the race would have been bad for the sport and almost instantly forgotten. Like Wiggins 2012. This performance by Froome has elevated the whole Giro to legendary status.