Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[nick101]

CI was definitely at 5.5-6 kms out and he definitely attacked the other two he was with in the front even if he just rode off the front of the peloton a little earlier when Richie let the gap open. I also don't remember Porte doing any softening up of people as he was wearing the yellow jersey and being protected (sort of, I think CF was on the front for less than a km after Kiry had pulled off at 6.5km to go) by Froomey. Porte's attack came at 2km to go some considerable time later.

He also attacked at 4km out in the Tour last year... Would it have stuck? we'll never know.

Ok. So the situation was that a gap occurred, Froome chased the gap down at a high pace, kept that pace and essentially tt'ed to the finish. The other's just couldn't stay on his wheel for the entire time. Didn't Porte do some work for Froome on the front, or am i thinking or the other way round?

The 2012 Tour acceleration lasted only a few 100m before Sky shut it down. I noticed Pinot was immediately on his wheel as soon as he accelerated and stayed there for the duration of the acceleration. As for whether it would've worked if it had been allowed by sky, I strongly suspect it would've worked and there may even have been a yellow jersey change because of it.

In the 2012 vuelta froome came in with good form from the tour and had that Tour form in the first 2 MTF's. Although he attacked multiple times, he just couldn't drop contador and the spaniards. After the first week, things went downhill and he struggled to keep up with the spaniards

 

[wwabbit]

It will be interesting whst Sky and Froome do if Contador attacks from a long way out like the 2012 Vuelta. Will they trust him to not have enough in the tank or will Froome jump on his wheel. Really looking forward to this years tour.

In theory, the best strategy would be to use all the domestiques he has in front of him to chase as much as they can until they all peel off, before going after Contador on his own. Kind of like in Prati di Tivo. This way Froome would be totally fresh for as long as his teammates have been doing the case whereas Contador would have been in the red all the while.

 

[King Boonen]

For froome to "show who's boss" he has to win on Ax-3. Now in order for that to happen, Sky/Froome must change their tactics. Froome's current tactic's are to attack in the final km and win. On Ax-3 that won't happen; if Froome attacks on the final km of the climb, he will be chased down (there's 1km of flat after the final climb) and the stage will be decided in a sprint. With Evans, Cunego, Valverde, Rodriguez and Martin all likely to be present and all of whom can out sprint froome, I can't see how Froome can win with his current tactics. The stage could also have a similar result to Morzine-Avoriz in 2010 where a bunch of all the contenders finished in the same time and 2 riders finished 10 seconds ahead (this year Froome and Contador??).
For Froome to win the stage he must attack from at least 3kms out. Froome has never done this before, so it should be interesting to watch.

I don't agree with this. If we go on current form (a very sketchy guide I'm aware), Froome will gain time on everyone in the TTs. All he needs to do is stick on peoples wheels, exactly as Contador did to Andy when he attacked on the Madeliene (I think? I'm sure you all know the stage I mean).

I want to see attacks early, I think we all do, but Froome is focused on winning the Tour, not stages. It doesn't matter if he comes 6th in a sprint to the line and loses a couple of seconds, everyone else has to put time into him, he doesn't have to put time into everyone else.

Froome "shows who's boss" by finishing along side the other contenders and then beating them outright in the time-trials.


I'm not saying this is how it will play out, but that has to be plan A for Sky, at least until the first TT where they can gauge the level of his competitors.

 

[papafrog]

Quote from Steven Farrand's Froome feature today:

"If he can stop Alberto Contador et al, at this year's Tour de France, he will be on track to win multiple Tours, possibly become one of the greatest stage racers in the history of the sport".

Um, really? Now we are crowning him as possibly becoming of the the greatest stage racers in history before he's even won a Grand Tour??? Come on, man, stop with the Kool Aid, Cyclingnews contributors.

 

[King Boonen]

In the 2012 vuelta froome came in with good form from the tour

That's not fair at all. Froome came in knackered from a season working as a domestique, culminating in being the main guy for Wiggins in the Tour at the end of each mountain stage, followed by burning himself out for Cav in the Olympic road race and then winning a bronze in the Olympic TT.

I think taking all that into account his Vuelta performance was pretty good until he dropped off the leaders.

 

[wwabbit]

Ok. So the situation was that a gap occurred, Froome chased the gap down at a high pace, kept that pace and essentially tt'ed to the finish. The other's just couldn't stay on his wheel for the entire time. Didn't Porte do some work for Froome on the front, or am i thinking or the other way round?

You should probably watch it again here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSQEpK-H0BY
What happened was Froome was leading Porte after Kiriyenka peeled off. After a few hundred meters, Froome increased his pace slowly while Porte soft pedaled, creating a gap that the peloton took a long time to react to. JCP had to put in a massive acceleration to bridge the gap to Froome, so was burnt out when Froome put in another kick after reaching Tschopp who had attacked earlier on his own.

The 2012 Tour acceleration lasted only a few 100m before Sky shut it down. I noticed Pinot was immediately on his wheel as soon as he accelerated and stayed there for the duration of the acceleration. As for whether it would've worked if it had been allowed by sky, I strongly suspect it would've worked and there may even have been a yellow jersey change because of it.

Worst that could have happened to Wiggins would have been finishing in the group of Frank Schleck, Evans and van Garderaan at 2'23 down on Rolland. Best that Froome could have done was to catch Rolland on the line. Froome was 2'07 down on Wiggins at the start of the stage, so it is plausible... but I would think highly improbable.

In the 2012 vuelta froome came in with good form from the tour and had that Tour form in the first 2 MTF's. Although he attacked multiple times, he just couldn't drop contador and the spaniards. After the first week, things went downhill and he struggled to keep up with the spaniards

Well he did eventually succeed in Stage 6 to drop Valverde and Contador, but Rodriguez was still way stronger.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Quote from Steven Farrand's Froome feature today:

"If he can stop Alberto Contador et al, at this year's Tour de France, he will be on track to win multiple Tours, possibly become one of the greatest stage racers in the history of the sport".

Um, really? Now we are crowning him as possibly becoming of the the greatest stage racers in history before he's even won a Grand Tour??? Come on, man, stop with the Kool Aid, Cyclingnews contributors.

Lol yeah it's pretty ridiculous.

 

[Froome19]

Lol yeah it's pretty ridiculous.

He is certainly OTT, but he has got a point. If Froome proves he can win against the best in the world a GT. Well considering his skill set you would think he can go on to win many more.

 

[wwabbit]

Quote from Steven Farrand's Froome feature today:

"If he can stop Alberto Contador et al, at this year's Tour de France, he will be on track to win multiple Tours, possibly become one of the greatest stage racers in the history of the sport".

Um, really? Now we are crowning him as possibly becoming of the the greatest stage racers in history before he's even won a Grand Tour??? Come on, man, stop with the Kool Aid, Cyclingnews contributors.

You must be severely misreading what he wrote if you think Farrand was "crowning him as possibly becoming of the the greatest stage racers in history".

What Farrand wrote meant that in the context of Froome's ambition to content for multiple Tour de France victories, if Froome wins this year's Tour de France, that would be step 1 achieved.

 

[King Boonen]

Quote from Steven Farrand's Froome feature today:

"If he can stop Alberto Contador et al, at this year's Tour de France, he will be on track to win multiple Tours, possibly become one of the greatest stage racers in the history of the sport".

Um, really? Now we are crowning him as possibly becoming of the the greatest stage racers in history before he's even won a Grand Tour??? Come on, man, stop with the Kool Aid, Cyclingnews contributors.

nothing wrong with it. I am possibly one of the greatest stage racers ever, but the chances are vanishingly small. With Froome's attributes it isn't unreasonable to say that if he can beat the best in this Tour, one that less suited to him than last years, he has all the right attributes to go on and win a lot of GTs.

The possibly in the quote seems like enough of a qualifier.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Quote from Steven Farrand's Froome feature today:

"If he can stop Alberto Contador et al, at this year's Tour de France, he will be on track to win multiple Tours, possibly become one of the greatest stage racers in the history of the sport".

Um, really? Now we are crowning him as possibly becoming of the the greatest stage racers in history before he's even won a Grand Tour??? Come on, man, stop with the Kool Aid, Cyclingnews contributors.

Froome will be busy piling on the wins quickly in that case.
Hes already behind schedule.

 

[airstream]

Froome attacked from more than 1km to СI, TR, Dauphine. He did 3-4 attacks on Gallina. He failed, but he would've destroyed those guys if he'd been in the Tour form IMO. To count kms and say Froome can not attack from 2-3-5km to go is not very smart, given how this guy rides any TT which implies his ability to keep his rhythm. So I wouldn't delude myself if I were you.

 

[papafrog]

You must be severely misreading what he wrote if you think Farrand was "crowning him as possibly becoming of the the greatest stage racers in history".

What Farrand wrote meant that in the context of Froome's ambition to content for multiple Tour de France victories, if Froome wins this year's Tour de France, that would be step 1 achieved.

No, I didn't misread it, the full quote is:

"If he can stop Alberto Contador et al, at this year's Tour de France, he will be on track to win multiple Tours, possibly become one of the greatest stage racers in the history of the sport and earn the salary to match."

You're reading into it what you believe, not what it actually says.

 

[wwabbit]

No, I didn't misread it, the full quote is:

"If he can stop Alberto Contador et al, at this year's Tour de France, he will be on track to win multiple Tours, possibly become one of the greatest stage racers in the history of the sport and earn the salary to match."

You're reading into it what you believe, not what it actually says.

Again, you should read what you quoted. Where is the "crowning" bit? What I see is "on track to" which means something totally different.
You've pretty much twisted the words of a reasonably worded article to make it seem absurd, then attacked the author for writing the absurd version. Well done.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Again, you should read what you quoted. Where is the "crowning" bit? What I see is "on track to" which means something totally different.
You've pretty much twisted the words of a reasonably worded article to make it seem absurd, then attacked the author for writing the absurd version. Well done.

Can you tell us then why we should read it the way you suggest?

To even mention "one of the greatest stage racers ever" in the same sentence as Froome is ridiculous.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Are froome and contador the same generation?

 

[Alpechraxler]

How does Froome handle long distance ? Do we have some refernces from him on long stages 240 km and more ? I know he got second last year in the tour and got second in the vuelta 2011. He also dominated romandie and dauphine but were there some really long stages ?

 

[Froome19]

How does Froome handle long distance ? Do we have some refernces from him on long stages 240 km and more ? I know he got second last year in the tour and got second in the vuelta 2011. He also dominated romandie and dauphine but were there some really long stages ?

Personally I have read interviews where has explicitly stated he excels the longer the distance.. Anyways with his palmares he should be fine and the only stage he has to worry about is Ventoux. Which doesn't present any real problems until the last 20km.

 

[Cimber]

I am not worried on his behalf regarding long distances. I am more intrigued by how he feels in the 3rd week. He looked great in the 3rd week in the 2012 Tour, but as he himself have stated they got it "easy" in that Tour and since he was sticking with Wiggo all the time he was maybe performing only 90% compared to if he really dug in.

In the Vuelta he melted in the 3rd week after guys like JRod and Bertie attacking all the time, but that might be explained cos of fatigue after the Tour.

Will be interesting to see.

 

[Froome19]

I am not worried on his behalf regarding long distances. I am more intrigued by how he feels in the 3rd week. He looked great in the 3rd week in the 2012 Tour, but as he himself have stated they got it "easy" in that Tour and since he was sticking with Wiggo all the time he was maybe performing only 90% compared to if he really dug in.

In the Vuelta he melted in the 3rd week after guys like JRod and Bertie attacking all the time, but that might be explained cos of fatigue after the Tour.

Will be interesting to see.

And remember he excelled in the 3rd week of the Vuelta 2011, unfortunately there wasn't much opportunity to make time up there.

But though I am pretty sure he will be fine come the 3rd week there is always a possibility he will struggle.

 

[Netserk]

And remember he excelled in the 3rd week of the Vuelta 2011, unfortunately there wasn't much opportunity to make time up there.

But though I am pretty sure he will be fine come the 3rd week there is always a possibility he will struggle.

There was only one meaningful climb in that 3rd week, so I don't know how much we can take from that.

Or does Mollema have great recovery?

 

[Jelantik]

I don't agree with this. If we go on current form (a very sketchy guide I'm aware), Froome will gain time on everyone in the TTs. All he needs to do is stick on peoples wheels, exactly as Contador did to Andy when he attacked on the Madeliene (I think? I'm sure you all know the stage I mean).

I want to see attacks early, I think we all do, but Froome is focused on winning the Tour, not stages. It doesn't matter if he comes 6th in a sprint to the line and loses a couple of seconds, everyone else has to put time into him, he doesn't have to put time into everyone else.

Froome "shows who's boss" by finishing along side the other contenders and then beating them outright in the time-trials.


I'm not saying this is how it will play out, but that has to be plan A for Sky, at least until the first TT where they can gauge the level of his competitors.

The only things that will force Froome to attack some 3km to go, is if he is behind in first TT. (who knows? crash, puncture, lost rhythm etc.) then we'll see how Froome is actually made off, because he would be entering unfamiliar territory of 'attack', 'attack'!!!!. Contador on the other hand, whether he is ahead or behind in ITT, he only knows one word 'attack'. In a way, I hope something disaster happens for froome in ITT, so he'll be behind a bit (not much, to keep it interesting). So once in for all, we can finally get the answer of our debate who is the strongest in the mountain? Froome or Contador.

 

[Afrank]

How? we all know Froome didn't want Wiggin's in a similar leadership position at Sky as Wiggins could've threatened his leadership position. Yes Wiggins certainly was unlucky at the Giro, but he didn't deserve the result he got. Your attitude appears similar to the Italians, who were cheering when Wiggins crashed and booed him when he was racing. To demote a recent Tour winner completely out of any leadership is just stupidity. Sure Froome deserves a high leadership position at Sky and this years Tour leadership, but Wiggins didn't deserve to be treated that way.

The result Wiggins got was due to his own lack of motivation and commitment. Yes Froome most likely didn't want Wiggins in a position where he could threaten his leadership. But all Froome really did was reassert that he should be leader like he was promised. While Wiggins tried to make claims to take Froomes leadership away from him.

If Wiggins had stopped whining and complaining about last years Tour, had actually done the work he needed to do to get himself in shape, and approached the Giro with the same commitment he had the 2012 Tour, then he wouldn't find himself in the position he is in now.

And no, I didn't cheer Wiggins crashing (although I can't say I wouldn't boo him ). I would have preferred to see Wiggins race the whole Giro, because it could have made Nibali attack more. And given us better racing.

 

[nick101]

The result Wiggins got was due to his own lack of motivation and commitment. Yes Froome most likely didn't want Wiggins in a position where he could threaten his leadership. But all Froome really did was reassert that he should be leader like he was promised. While Wiggins tried to make claims to take Froomes leadership away from him.

If Wiggins had stopped whining and complaining about last years Tour, had actually done the work he needed to do to get himself in shape, and approached the Giro with the same commitment he had the 2012 Tour, then he wouldn't find himself in the position he is in now.

And no, I didn't cheer Wiggins crashing (although I can't say I wouldn't boo him ). I would have preferred to see Wiggins race the whole Giro, because it could have made Nibali attack more. And given us better racing.

To assert his positon Froome thought demoting Wiggins was neccessary. Maybe from my viewpoint it wasn't, but from his it was. Ok how do you know Wiggins didn't prepare well for the Giro and was whining?? I'm not saying you're wrong btw. Not sure whether Nibali would've attacked more, maybe different places i.e on a descent. Nibali was climbing better than Wiggin's would've been so I actually doubt he would've changed anything about his attacks. Interestingly he beat Di Luca's record on Tre Cimi Laveredo from the far from clean 2007 Giro

 

[Afrank]

Ok how do you know Wiggins didn't prepare well for the Giro and was whining?? I'm not saying you're wrong btw. Not sure whether Nibali would've attacked more, maybe different places i.e on a descent. Nibali was climbing better than Wiggin's would've been so I actually doubt he would've changed anything about his attacks. Interestingly he beat Di Luca's record on Tre Cimi Laveredo from the far from clean 2007 Giro

I know he didn't prepare well because he was dropped on climbs and descents and everywhere in between. The Wiggins we saw that Giro was definitely not the same one we saw in 2012. iirc, there was also something in the news about him picking and choosing what team training camps to go to. Plus he didn't race much before it, not sure if that affected anything, but it may have.

As for the whining, he was continuing to complain about Froome riding away from him last year in practically every interview he did it seemed. He came across more than a few times as someone that couldn't let go of the past.