Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

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Most of the examples you list are of two teammates competing for the win, not three (you could argue that Astana had four in 2009, but LL crashed out, and more to the point, no one other than Contador was ever going to challenge LA)..

As any physicist knows, the three body problem is far more complicated. If you have two leaders, one of them is usually going to gain separation at a point where the other has to yield and work for him. If you have three, though, you have the possibility of shifting alliances. We got some taste of that from 2009, where Contador in effect was contending against both LA and Klodi, since the latter would have been siding with LA in any conflict with Contador. That probably played into Contador's decision to attack on a key mountain stage, basically knocking Klodi out of contention for second or even third on the GC.

Granted, there was a lot of bad blood between LA and AC that does not appear to be the case with the three Ineos riders, but you also have the wild card situation, where at any point, any two might be fighting vs. the other, the leader. Suppose Bernal takes an early lead,. He wouldn't want either Froome or Thomas sent up the road, because they would be a challenge to him. If one of them did go up the road, I could see the other actually working to let that one go, since it would potentially improve his chances vs. Bernal. And so on. A lot of potential for chaos, it seems to me.

And again, I remind you that Froome in 2018 was less likely bothered by not winning than he would have been in any other year, having just come from an historic Giro win, and knowing how difficult the double would be. If he hadn't ridden the Giro, or worse, finished far out of contention--as had seemed likely for much of the race--I think not winning the TDF would have been a much bigger deal for him. He could afford to be magnanimous to Thomas, because he still had had a great year.
All true, of course, and the potential for a significant intra-team conflict that affects results for riders on the team negatively is definitely there. But I think that one rider is likely to emerge from the situation as the dominant player, and wind up on the podium, with the most probable position being first. And I think any team takes that, even Ineos.
 
I suspect many of the GC teams that have 2 options will take two options to the Tour this year. Ineos definitely takes Bernal and Thomas (likely Froome as long as he can prove he's recovered). JV likely takes both Roglic and Dumolin. UAE likely takes both Aru and Pogacar. Although in there case it's likely they don't know what to expect from either one. Of course we have Movistar with their new trident of Mas, Soler, and Valverde. Although I suspect Valverde is more the safety net for Mas and Soler. Now if we do get racing I do not expect Movistar's team this year to be as much of a circus as last year. However, Ineos appears to be trying to take that mantel for this year. The difference being Ineos is a more disciplined team to begin with with riders who actually listen to their DS and usually do what they are told.
 
I suspect many of the GC teams that have 2 options will take two options to the Tour this year. Ineos definitely takes Bernal and Thomas (likely Froome as long as he can prove he's recovered). JV likely takes both Roglic and Dumolin. UAE likely takes both Aru and Pogacar. Although in there case it's likely they don't know what to expect from either one. Of course we have Movistar with their new trident of Mas, Soler, and Valverde. Although I suspect Valverde is more the safety net for Mas and Soler. Now if we do get racing I do not expect Movistar's team this year to be as much of a circus as last year. However, Ineos appears to be trying to take that mantel for this year. The difference being Ineos is a more disciplined team to begin with with riders who actually listen to their DS and usually do what they are told.
It would seem Ineos is pretty consistent about their planning and historically quick to correct strategy during the race.
Jumbo-V will be a novel situation if two guys are close into the 3rd week. Generally they seem to stick to the plan.
Do you think Movistar will continue to be as aggressive as last year? Seems like they came up short on several long efforts to break the peloton down in GTs. And some of the aggressors are now protected.
 
It would seem Ineos is pretty consistent about their planning and historically quick to correct strategy during the race.
Jumbo-V will be a novel situation if two guys are close into the 3rd week. Generally they seem to stick to the plan.
Do you think Movistar will continue to be as aggressive as last year? Seems like they came up short on several long efforts to break the peloton down in GTs. And some of the aggressors are now protected.
Agree about Ineos and Jumbo-V. With Movistar I think they still need to figure out Mas and Soler's styles of racing and how they are most comfortable racing as leaders. Mas does have a GT podium, but like Pogacar last year he wasn't a favorite before that Vuelta started. So basically Movistar is going to the Tour with two unproven GC leaders and their long time leader there to help, coach, teach, support them and if all else fails act as the safety net for them. My guess is it will depend on what Mas and Soler are comfortable trying to do. I do think Movistar will be interesting to watch but for better reasons than the last couple of years. This year it will be because they have two young unproven leaders who are getting a chance to lead one of the better GC teams at the Tour.
 
It would seem Ineos is pretty consistent about their planning and historically quick to correct strategy during the race.
Jumbo-V will be a novel situation if two guys are close into the 3rd week. Generally they seem to stick to the plan.
Do you think Movistar will continue to be as aggressive as last year? Seems like they came up short on several long efforts to break the peloton down in GTs. And some of the aggressors are now protected.
IMHO Movistar was successful at breaking down the peloton, at least in last year's Tour, but neither Landa nor Quintana were strong enough to capitalize. This year will be different because they have no legitimate threat for the overall. A low-end Top 10 and/or a stage victory is about all that can be expected for Mas and Soler.

Jumbo-Visma is different. At the Tour, they only ride for minor places and seem happy with that. For example, last year they did nothing until riding in Stage 20 to protect Kruijswijk's 3rd place. If leading GC, they'll try to control. If not, they'll follow and be satisfied with a nice 3rd, 4th and 6th-type scenario.

As you stated, Ineos is consistent, will only care about winning the overall and won't care with who. I can potentially see Bernal or (if strong enough) Froome in some conflict if they both think they can win. But, like last year, will manage it within the context of the team's overall goal.
 
IMHO Movistar was successful at breaking down the peloton, at least in last year's Tour, but neither Landa nor Quintana were strong enough to capitalize. This year will be different because they have no legitimate threat for the overall. A low-end Top 10 and/or a stage victory is about all that can be expected for Mas and Soler.

Jumbo-Visma is different. At the Tour, they only ride for minor places and seem happy with that. For example, last year they did nothing until riding in Stage 20 to protect Kruijswijk's 3rd place. If leading GC, they'll try to control. If not, they'll follow and be satisfied with a nice 3rd, 4th and 6th-type scenario.

As you stated, Ineos is consistent, will only care about winning the overall and won't care with who. I can potentially see Bernal or (if strong enough) Froome in some conflict if they both think they can win. But, like last year, will manage it within the context of the team's overall goal.
Pretty much spot on. The change will be with JV fully armed. Roglic won the Vuelta against lesser competition and team assistance than he'll face in the Tour. He'll have Dumoulin and between them Ineos could have their hands full. Neither Primoz or Tom are afraid to get after it and attack.
 
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Pretty much spot on. The change will be with JV fully armed. Roglic won the Vuelta against lesser competition and team assistance than he'll face in the Tour. He'll have Dumoulin and between them Ineos could have their hands full. Neither Primoz or Tom are afraid to get after it and attack.
Hopefully Tom is fully recovered from his knee issues at this point. He and Roglic could be very good co leaders.
 
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I may be quite a bit late to the party here, but I just finished reading his autobiography (which was written after his first Tour win back in 2013). Man, that was a good one. Much better than I had thought it would be.

He really didn't sugarcoat how awkward and tough things were with Bradley Wiggins and how unsatisfied he was with Dave B at times.

And his African origin story is just sheer and utter craziness. Many people may not like him but it's hard to find a more fascinating way into professional sports than his.

One thing I wonder, though; he seemed to be really, really good friends with Richie Porte back then, so it seems quite baffling that he was willing to throw that friendship down the drain in the 2017 Dauphiné. Or maybe he just didn't imagine that Porte would take his trying to win the race by racing on Porte so personally.

But the book really does give a great insight into all his biggest races through the 2013 Tour.
 
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wow crazy news. not surprising really. froome would be mad to turn down $5M per year for 3 years and the opportunity to serve as sole leader IMO. i think his odds go down slightly at winning overall, but i dont think they were very high to begin with with bernal and gt on his team and clearly believing more in them, and thus likely backing them even if they dont outright say it
 
It looks even crazier to me from Froome's point of view, even if they pay a lot of money. One would think that Froome is not so interested in money at this point. In my opinion his chances of a tour podium (which I rated already very low, okay, but obviously he wants to go for it, otherwise he'd be okay with being Bernal's domestique) drop close to zero if he joins Israel. Is his ego hurt? Is his position at Ineos so low right now that he's not going to take it anymore? Does he believe he does not need a strong team to win? Does he think this is the best chance he has got to compete? Is it really money? o_O
 
In any case this doesn't sound like Ineos is very confident about him. Like, even at this salary, could you have seen froome suddenly leaving Ineos Like that before his injury? I also think, If this story and the offer are true, this is unbelievably stupid by Israel
 
Froome going to Israel Cycling!
Woah he must really feel he can win and Ineos don't/ can't match that offer. Fair enough.
Lets see how it goes. Either we'd be back in a few months calling Israel Cycling the biggest fools or the biggest geniuses. I hope its the latter.
 
In any case this doesn't sound like Ineos is very confident about him. Like, even at this salary, could you have seen froome suddenly leaving Ineos Like that before his injury? I also think, If this story and the offer are true, this is unbelievably stupid by Israel
I’m not clear enough about their strategy to know if it’s stupid, but in general, since the stated goal of their sponsor is to promote the growth of cycling in Israel, then this is certainly going to get them A LOT more media coverage and screen time even if he doesn’t podium. I’m not saying it’s a good idea though-seems like the team will look foolish if he bombs out.
 
I think the amount of money for the salary Israel cycling are offering is stupid because Froome hasn't proven he's recovered from the injuries. However, trying to sign him for media coverage to advance their goal of cycling growth would definitely be helped. On the Ineos side, it sounds like they haven't even offered him a contract at any price range. It also appears Froome is number 3 for the Tour. This would lead one to believe Inoes doesn't have much confidence in him.
 
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It would be pretty bonkers if this were to happen. I just don't really understand why Ineos would go with it. I mean, okay, they don't have to pay his salary for five months but why risk getting such a potentially big rival for the Tour? Nobody really knows at what level he will be able to compete but if he can get close to his best, Ineos would look pretty dumb. Imagine if they lose the Tour because of having let him go!
 
It would be pretty bonkers if this were to happen. I just don't really understand why Ineos would go with it. I mean, okay, they don't have to pay his salary for five months but why risk getting such a potentially big rival for the Tour? Nobody really knows at what level he will be able to compete but if he can get close to his best, Ineos would look pretty dumb. Imagine if they lose the Tour because of having let him go!
What I read, was that Israel Cycling would also buy him out so it's not only the 5 months of salary. Having an unhappy Froome at the start of the Tour could also have its disadvantages if he starts riding against instead of with Bernal and Thomas.
 
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