Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

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Dan Martin, like Valverde, is a puncheur. Puncheur's do not make for good climbing helpers. They are great for getting stage wins, but very poor as helpers. The type of climbs they are great at are the type that helpers aren't useful. Puncheurs are in their playground on very steep varied gradient climbs where it's everyone for themselves. They aren't as good good on the long steady climbers where the helpers are the most important. The best way D Martin could be used as a help is being there in the final selection and attacking. A puncheur is likely to make a better helper in a sprint train than they will make as a climbing helper.
And this of course is not true at all!
Both Valverde and Dan Martin are not exclusively puncheurs, but also very good climbers, specially Valverde who during his career won on more than 20 mountain tops.
Valverde is also vey good in mountain ITT's,, so he can pace himself pretty good on the climbs.
Both Valverde and Dan Martin are much, much better as mountain doms than in the sprint train, although Valverde can be very useful there too, but he's a special case.
But let's get back on main topic of this thread.
 
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And this of course is not true at all!
Both Valverde and Dan Martin are not exclusively puncheurs, but also very good climbers, specially Valverde who during his career won on more than 20 mountain tops.
Valverde is also vey good in mountain ITT's,, so he can pace himself pretty good on the climbs.
Both Valverde and Dan Martin are much, much better as mountain doms than in the sprint train, although Valverde can be very useful there too, but he's a special case.
But let's get back on main topic of this thread.
Being able to pace yourself and being a helper are not the same thing.

ISU will need more climbing helpers or Froome would just have to latch onto another team's train. Pointed out, ISU doesn't exactly have any openings on their roster currently to add Froome let along climbing helpers without firing/moving to people somewhere else.
 
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Being able to pace yourself and being a helper are not the same thing.

ISU will need more climbing helpers or Froome would just have to latch onto another team's train. Pointed out, ISU doesn't exactly have any openings on their roster currently to add Froome let along climbing helpers without firing/moving to people somewhere else.
If froome is really going to isu, probably he have the guarantee that they will buy some climbers. The most important thing is that froome recovers from is injurys, and returns to is best shape, that s the most difficult thing, but if that happens, no one is at their level, and a couple of climbers, like martin, navarro and maybe nivel, is the enough to win the tour, even if ineos or jumbo have better team.
 
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If froome is really going to isu, probably he have the guarantee that they will buy some climbers. The most important thing is that froome recovers from is injurys, and returns to is best shape, that s the most difficult thing, but if that happens, no one is at their level, and a couple of climbers, like martin, navarro and maybe nivel, is the enough to win the tour, even if ineos or jumbo have better team.
Nieve*
 
If froome is really going to isu, probably he have the guarantee that they will buy some climbers. The most important thing is that froome recovers from is injurys, and returns to is best shape, that s the most difficult thing, but if that happens, no one is at their level, and a couple of climbers, like martin, navarro and maybe nivel, is the enough to win the tour, even if ineos or jumbo have better team.
It's unlikely he can fully recover physically because it's an injury that no one has and that includes people who are much younger having similar injuries. They never got back to their previous levels. This is the exact reason I don't think it makes sense to offer him a contract until he has raced to prove where his level now is. Also as mentioned somewhere ISU is currently at their max for riders. They might be able to move 1 person around this year to bring him in, but it's unlikely they could bring in anyone else this year. Next year sure. Froome hasn't raced since before the Duaphine last year, so he's had a full year off. That's also going to affect racing level.
 
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It's unlikely he can fully recover physically because it's an injury that no one has and that includes people who are much younger having similar injuries. They never got back to their previous levels. This is the exact reason I don't think it makes sense to offer him a contract until he has raced to prove where his level now is. Also as mentioned somewhere ISU is currently at their max for riders. They might be able to move 1 person around this year to bring him in, but it's unlikely they could bring in anyone else this year. Next year sure. Froome hasn't raced since before the Duaphine last year, so he's had a full year off. That's also going to affect racing level.
It's unlikely he can fully recover physically because it's an injury that no one has and that includes people who are much younger having similar injuries. They never got back to their previous levels. This is the exact reason I don't think it makes sense to offer him a contract until he has raced to prove where his level now is. Also as mentioned somewhere ISU is currently at their max for riders. They might be able to move 1 person around this year to bring him in, but it's unlikely they could bring in anyone else this year. Next year sure. Froome hasn't raced since before the Duaphine last year, so he's had a full year off. That's also going to affect racing level.
Yeah, that s risky move by isu. And i agree that the most difficult thing in this situation is froome recover, because if he can do that, in my opinion, i think that he doesn t need a great team by is side to win the tour.
 
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It's unlikely he can fully recover physically because it's an injury that no one has and that includes people who are much younger having similar injuries. They never got back to their previous levels. This is the exact reason I don't think it makes sense to offer him a contract until he has raced to prove where his level now is. Also as mentioned somewhere ISU is currently at their max for riders. They might be able to move 1 person around this year to bring him in, but it's unlikely they could bring in anyone else this year. Next year sure. Froome hasn't raced since before the Duaphine last year, so he's had a full year off. That's also going to affect racing level.
Well, he did ride UAE. :)

Rui, why would you think so? If there's one thing Skyneos has shown, it's the worth of a strong team. (And that of a team that knows what else to do to win a Tour.) Froome has never shown he can do it without them. But they have shown they can win it without him.
(I'm more in favor of Froome as a person than Ineos as a team, but that's what I make of the facts.)
 
Well, he did ride UAE. :)

Rui, why would you think so? If there's one thing Skyneos has shown, it's the worth of a strong team. (And that of a team that knows what else to do to win a Tour.) Froome has never shown he can do it without them. But they have shown they can win it without him.
(I'm more in favor of Froome as a person than Ineos as a team, but that's what I make of the facts.)

He didn't exactly show anything there. I actually forgot he even raced it. Granted the entire race being stopped at everyone stuck there for at least a week is the most memorable part of the entire race so there's that as well.
 
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Well, he did ride UAE. :)

Rui, why would you think so? If there's one thing Skyneos has shown, it's the worth of a strong team. (And that of a team that knows what else to do to win a Tour.) Froome has never shown he can do it without them. But they have shown they can win it without him.
(I'm more in favor of Froome as a person than Ineos as a team, but that's what I make of the facts.)
In my opinion, it s important to have a good team surrounding a leader at the tour, but at the end of day, the best rider in best shape always win, because if a rider is not on his best shape, it s irrelevant that he is surrounding by a great team.
 
I heard ISU wants to sign GVA. I don't see how he helps Froome. If you're already full to the point where you need to remove someone to make room for Froome, it seems to me the last thing you would want to do is sign someone who doesn't fit into a GC team, but is mostly valued for stage wins. You're paying $5 million a year for Froome, then presumably a large chunk of cash for someone who is extraneous from the point of view of building a team around Froome.

The one factor I think is in Froome's favor on a new team without the Sky train, is that he climbs, or can climb, at his own pace. We've seen that in recent years, when he seems to yo-yo off and on the back of select MTF groups, not because he slows down and speeds up, but because the group does. Froome seems comfortable riding at his own pace, confident that any riders ahead of him will burn out and be catchable. It seems to me that the most important thing ISU would need to do is ensure that Froome is completely protected on flat or hilly stages, and let him worry about the climbs.
 
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I heard ISU wants to sign GVA. I don't see how he helps Froome. If you're already full to the point where you need to remove someone to make room for Froome, it seems to me the last thing you would want to do is sign someone who doesn't fit into a GC team, but is mostly valued for stage wins. You're paying $5 million a year for Froome, then presumably a large chunk of cash for someone who is extraneous from the point of view of building a team around Froome.

The one factor I think is in Froome's favor on a new team without the Sky train, is that he climbs, or can climb, at his own pace. We've seen that in recent years, when he seems to yo-yo off and on the back of select MTF groups, not because he slows down and speeds up, but because the group does. Froome seems comfortable riding at his own pace, confident that any riders ahead of him will burn out and be catchable. It seems to me that the most important thing ISU would need to do is ensure that Froome is completely protected on flat or hilly stages, and let him worry about the climbs.
And he doesnt need to attack in the mountains, or take the yellow jersey in the first mountain stages, he just need to follow the best climbers, and wait to take the yellow jersey in the itt.
 
What I don’t understand about this deal is the amount of money (reportedly) involved. Because of his age, and the accident, Froome is a gamble, surely everyone accepts that. I can understand a team thinking, OK, we’ll be able to pay a discount because of this, and maybe we’ll hit the jackpot. But 5 million euros a year is not a discount. Froome is being offered what a team would ordinarily pay a rider in his prime, late 20s, and considered the favorite to win the TDF for several years to come. I believe the only rider who makes more than five million (barely) is Sagan. Bernal makes about half of that. If you were a new team, and could sign anyone you wanted, wouldn't you easily take Bernal over Froome at this point?

To make the risk even worse, there might not even be a Tour this year, which means one year is wasted, and Froome starts all over next year, a year older.
 
What I don’t understand about this deal is the amount of money (reportedly) involved. Because of his age, and the accident, Froome is a gamble, surely everyone accepts that. I can understand a team thinking, OK, we’ll be able to pay a discount because of this, and maybe we’ll hit the jackpot. But 5 million euros a year is not a discount. Froome is being offered what a team would ordinarily pay a rider in his prime, late 20s, and considered the favorite to win the TDF for several years to come. I believe the only rider who makes more than five million (barely) is Sagan. Bernal makes about half of that. If you were a new team, and could sign anyone you wanted, wouldn't you easily take Bernal over Froome at this point?

To make the risk even worse, there might not even be a Tour this year, which means one year is wasted, and Froome starts all over next year, a year older.
I can only assume their reasoning is that them attracting Froome might be worth it from a marketing point of view alone, regardless of his results. It can also serve as a statement of intent, and might help interesting riders to consider joining in the future.
 
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I can only assume their reasoning is that them attracting Froome might be worth it from a marketing point of view alone, regardless of his results. It can also serve as a statement of intent, and might help interesting riders to consider joining in the future.
I can't think of any other reason a team would even consider paying him that amount until he proves he's recovered from the injury AND is still capable of winning Grand Tours. Even publicity can't be fully worth that kind of money.
 
Gotta love Sylvan Adams, a UCI World Masters Track Cycling Champion himself, for building a world-class velodrome in Israel. And if he now wants to pay the TopDawg many millions over three years I commend him for trying to drag cycling out of the bargain basement of professional sports. Of course the fans of the low budget teams that never compensate their riders properly will try to find fault.
 
According to today's article, Froome is telling teammates he'll be with Ineos for the Tour this year. Now signing him for next year for ISU makes more sense. Plus as they will have riders out of contract that means they'll have room to sign him and a few mountain helpers as well.
 
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According to today's article, Froome is telling teammates he'll be with Ineos for the Tour this year. Now signing him for next year for ISU makes more sense. Plus as they will have riders out of contract that means they'll have room to sign him and a few mountain helpers as well.
Yeah.....makes more sense. Probably nieve could go to ISU next year. Nieve and martin helping froome sounds good.
 
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