Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[Hayabusa]

Re: Re:

Contador's not an active GT star. He's a former GT star that happens to be active. He'll never win another GT and isn't worth discussing in the realms of potential winner.

Porte, Quintana, Nibali, Dumoulin and Aru are examples of riders that are worth discussing.

:lol:[/quote]

You don't think that Porte is worthy of discussion? Barring bad luck last year, he'd have podiumed and he's been the strongest week long stage racer this year.

Edit: Actually 2nd best, Alejandro being #1

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

And maybe it hasn't got anything to do with having a heart for the sport, but more with a resentment for whiny Giromantics, by far the most annoying kind of cyclingfan on the planet? OK, maybe not, he doesn't strike me as that kind of person. But I could sympathize with that.

You are allowed your opinion but please then also consider that to many cycling fans Tour de France fanboys are by far the most annoying fans. It doesn't go one way.

And with the least knowledge about cycling!

I'd gladly read any serious argument on why giromantics are more knowledgeable and profound cycling fans than moronic annoying july fans.

 

[Parker]

Re: Re:

Yes, that was the statement that started this discussion.
This generation

This "generation" and "all active riders" is not the same. I believe the original discussion question plainly stated "all active riders" or something to that effect. Contador career is split between Froome's generation (or what likely is conveniently when Froome came to prominence) and the one before it.

It started with all active riders. Though indeed their peaks were clearly different time, I have hard times to say riders with only 2,5 years age difference are from different "generation".

Andy Schleck is a few weeks younger than Froome, yet his last win came before Froome's first, so generations don't really work.
"Eras" are a better thing to talk in terms of. 2007-his ban was the Contador era. Since then has been the Froome/Sky era.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Contador's not an active GT star. He's a former GT star that happens to be active. He'll never win another GT and isn't worth discussing in the realms of potential winner.

Porte, Quintana, Nibali, Dumoulin and Aru are examples of riders that are worth discussing.

:lol:

You don't think that Porte is worthy of discussion? Barring bad luck last year, he'd have podiumed and he's been the strongest week long stage racer this year.

Edit: Actually 2nd best, Alejandro being #1[/quote]

Well for Porte to participate in discussion about best GT rider, he would need to win one first, or at least podium.
As for stage races concerns, he's the man, I agree. But it's a long way from great stage racer to great GT rider. Many have failed on that way.

 

[Hayabusa]

Re: Re:

Contador's not an active GT star. He's a former GT star that happens to be active. He'll never win another GT and isn't worth discussing in the realms of potential winner.

Porte, Quintana, Nibali, Dumoulin and Aru are examples of riders that are worth discussing.

:lol:

You don't think that Porte is worthy of discussion? Barring bad luck last year, he'd have podiumed and he's been the strongest week long stage racer this year.

Edit: Actually 2nd best, Alejandro being #1

Well for Porte to participate in discussion about best GT rider, he would need to win one first, or at least podium.
As for stage races concerns, he's the man, I agree. But it's a long way from great stage racer to great GT rider. Many have failed on that way.

I wasn't discussing Porte being in the discussion about best GT rider, but just that he could be in the discussion for winning the Tour whereas Contador could not..

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Yes, that was the statement that started this discussion.
This generation

This "generation" and "all active riders" is not the same. I believe the original discussion question plainly stated "all active riders" or something to that effect. Contador career is split between Froome's generation (or what likely is conveniently when Froome came to prominence) and the one before it.

It started with all active riders. Though indeed their peaks were clearly different time, I have hard times to say riders with only 2,5 years age difference are from different "generation".

Andy Schleck is a few weeks younger than Froome, yet his last win came before Froome's first, so gernerations don't really work.
"Eras" are a better thing to talk in terms of. 2007-his ban was the Contador era. Since then has been the Froome/Sky era.

True, different persons have their in sports career at different point of age, that's how it has always been. They do still belong to same generation as that term is normally used in relation to their age.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Contador's not an active GT star. He's a former GT star that happens to be active. He'll never win another GT and isn't worth discussing in the realms of potential winner.

Porte, Quintana, Nibali, Dumoulin and Aru are examples of riders that are worth discussing.

:lol:

You don't think that Porte is worthy of discussion? Barring bad luck last year, he'd have podiumed and he's been the strongest week long stage racer this year.

Edit: Actually 2nd best, Alejandro being #1

Well for Porte to participate in discussion about best GT rider, he would need to win one first, or at least podium.
As for stage races concerns, he's the man, I agree. But it's a long way from great stage racer to great GT rider. Many have failed on that way.

I wasn't discussing Porte being in the discussion about best GT rider, but just that he could be in the discussion for winning the Tour whereas Contador could not..

That wasn't really the discussion we have had in the last 3 pages or so pages though

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Don't see why so much focus is on discussing Contador in the Froome thread, doesn't he have his own thread? The guy hasn't been the top GT rider for 5 years....

now you know what we feel like when Froome fanbots come to the Contador thread to annoy and troll.

So you accept that you came here to troll then?

that's not what I wrote
You don't think Contador should be discussed when there's a discussion about where Froome ranks compared to the other still active GT stars?
That's why I posted here. Not my fault fanbots then started derailing the discussion with subjective claims.

Contador's not an active GT star. He's a former GT star that happens to be active. He'll never win another GT and isn't worth discussing in the realms of potential winner.

Porte, Quintana, Nibali, Dumoulin and Aru are examples of riders that are worth discussing.

Just for clarification, the statement in bold is simply someone's opinion and definitely not fact as some folks here seem to be having a hard time understanding the difference between the two.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Yes, that was the statement that started this discussion.
This generation

This "generation" and "all active riders" is not the same. I believe the original discussion question plainly stated "all active riders" or something to that effect. Contador career is split between Froome's generation (or what likely is conveniently when Froome came to prominence) and the one before it.

It started with all active riders. Though indeed their peaks were clearly different time, I have hard times to say riders with only 2,5 years age difference are from different "generation".

Andy Schleck is a few weeks younger than Froome, yet his last win came before Froome's first, so gernerations don't really work.
"Eras" are a better thing to talk in terms of. 2007-his ban was the Contador era. Since then has been the Froome/Sky era.

True, different persons have their in sports career at different point of age, that's how it has always been. They do still belong to same generation as that term is normally used in relation to their age.

This gets confusing? Armstrong overlapped with Contador, who overlapped with Froome. Does that make Armstrong the best rider of Froome's generation?

 

[Hayabusa]

Re: Re:

That wasn't really the discussion we have had in the last 3 pages or so pages though

To be fair most of the discussion the last 3 pages were two people arguing with eachother that the other was a troll

My point is that Contador should be discussed in the Contador thread, he is of no concern to Froome.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

And maybe it hasn't got anything to do with having a heart for the sport, but more with a resentment for whiny Giromantics, by far the most annoying kind of cyclingfan on the planet? OK, maybe not, he doesn't strike me as that kind of person. But I could sympathize with that.

You are allowed your opinion but please then also consider that to many cycling fans Tour de France fanboys are by far the most annoying fans. It doesn't go one way.

And with the least knowledge about cycling!

I'd gladly read any serious argument on why giromantics are more knowledgeable and profound cycling fans than moronic annoying july fans.

The thing is some young cycling fans only become this because this is how they want to be seen in places such as these: more knowledgeable and profound. It's like the 15 year old Beatles-fan who goes on Youtube-videos, telling everybody his age to highlight how much superior his taste is to his peers. Not all are like that of course, but a portion, I believe

 

[Hayabusa]

Re: Re:

Just for clarification, the statement in bold is simply someone's opinion and definitely not fact as some folks here seem to be having a hard time understanding the difference between the two.

Ofcourse it's not a fact. It'll just become one when Alberto retires at the end of next season with no more GT wins

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

And maybe it hasn't got anything to do with having a heart for the sport, but more with a resentment for whiny Giromantics, by far the most annoying kind of cyclingfan on the planet? OK, maybe not, he doesn't strike me as that kind of person. But I could sympathize with that.

You are allowed your opinion but please then also consider that to many cycling fans Tour de France fanboys are by far the most annoying fans. It doesn't go one way.

And with the least knowledge about cycling!

I'd gladly read any serious argument on why giromantics are more knowledgeable and profound cycling fans than moronic annoying july fans.

It's simple. July fans only care about the Tour, they don't know much about cycling history, they think Tour is everything. We had that situation with Americans 15 years ago, and now we have similar one...
Giro fans, on the other hand, are in love with this sport. You will not find a Giro fan who knows nothing about other races and doesn't care about them. They're passionate about the sport, who loves Giro, he loves cycling!

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Contador's not an active GT star. He's a former GT star that happens to be active. He'll never win another GT and isn't worth discussing in the realms of potential winner.

Porte, Quintana, Nibali, Dumoulin and Aru are examples of riders that are worth discussing.

:lol:

You don't think that Porte is worthy of discussion? Barring bad luck last year, he'd have podiumed and he's been the strongest week long stage racer this year.

Edit: Actually 2nd best, Alejandro being #1[/quote]

How can Porte be considered more worthy than Contador when he has yet to even podium a grand tour at the grand old age of 32? All of this "if not for this crash" is useless as history has shown that Porte's peak is 5th (with a 7th being next best finish) placement in the final gc of grand tours. I detect the stench of a most foul agenda here!

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

That wasn't really the discussion we have had in the last 3 pages or so pages though

To be fair most of the discussion the last 3 pages were two people arguing with eachother that the other was a troll

My point is that Contador should be discussed in the Contador thread, he is of no concern to Froome.

Then should Contador attack at any point this weekend we can anticipate Froome/Sky simply letting him go on his merry way as they don't see him as a threat at all.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

And maybe it hasn't got anything to do with having a heart for the sport, but more with a resentment for whiny Giromantics, by far the most annoying kind of cyclingfan on the planet? OK, maybe not, he doesn't strike me as that kind of person. But I could sympathize with that.

You are allowed your opinion but please then also consider that to many cycling fans Tour de France fanboys are by far the most annoying fans. It doesn't go one way.

And with the least knowledge about cycling!

I'd gladly read any serious argument on why giromantics are more knowledgeable and profound cycling fans than moronic annoying july fans.

The thing is some young cycling fans only become this because this is how they want to be seen in places such as these: more knowledgeable and profound. It's like the 15 year old Beatles-fan who goes on Youtube-videos, telling everybody his age to highlight how much superior his taste is to his peers. Not all are like that of course, but a portion, I believe

I have come to the conclusion that over time after reading the posts of kingjr, dacooley, and rick james that they are related in some way or maybe they are conjoined tripletts with adjacent keyboards! Notice the lower case forum names. The similar love of all things Sky/Froome. I think I'm on to something here!

 

[Singer01]

Why can't you accept that more than one person can be awesome?
Contador has 2x5 year periods which most others would absolutely kill for -
first period 2007-2001 = 6 GT wins consecutively before the sucky 5th at the Tour
second period 2012 - 2016 = 3 GT wins, 2 4th places and a 5th.
That being said although Froome has only won the same number of GT's in this period, his other results are much better, and even if they wern't 3 TDF trumps Contadors 3 GT's by a significant margin based on prestige, competition and level of dominance.
You can go on about the romance of the Giro all you want, but the FA cup is romantic, and the world cup is a corporate whores wet dream, what do you think most people would rather win?

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

And maybe it hasn't got anything to do with having a heart for the sport, but more with a resentment for whiny Giromantics, by far the most annoying kind of cyclingfan on the planet? OK, maybe not, he doesn't strike me as that kind of person. But I could sympathize with that.

You are allowed your opinion but please then also consider that to many cycling fans Tour de France fanboys are by far the most annoying fans. It doesn't go one way.

And with the least knowledge about cycling!

I'd gladly read any serious argument on why giromantics are more knowledgeable and profound cycling fans than moronic annoying july fans.

It's simple. July fans only care about the Tour, they don't know much about cycling history, they think Tour is everything. We had that situation with Americans 15 years ago, and now we have similar one...
Giro fans, on the other hand, are in love with this sport. You will not find a Giro fan who knows nothing about other races and doesn't care about them. They're passionate about the sport, who loves Giro, he loves cycling!

Are Tour fans bound to be "July fans"?

 

[Netserk]

Re:

There has been a clear line of succession of the top GT riders and it has always been the person winning three or more Tours.

Bobet-Anquetil-Merckx-Hinault-LeMond-Indurain-Armstrong*-Contador*-Froome. I doubt the next one will be Quintana.

Who was better - Contador or Froome - will have to wait until they've both retired. My guess is it will be Froome.


(*Officially haven't won three, of course)

Fignon > LeMond

 

[Parker]

Re: Re:

There has been a clear line of succession of the top GT riders and it has always been the person winning three or more Tours.

Bobet-Anquetil-Merckx-Hinault-LeMond-Indurain-Armstrong*-Contador*-Froome. I doubt the next one will be Quintana.

Who was better - Contador or Froome - will have to wait until they've both retired. My guess is it will be Froome.


(*Officially haven't won three, of course)

Fignon > LeMond

Not for me, I'm afraid. Fignon had two good years and then a good 1989. LeMond won three times in five years despite almost dying (and like Froome came second behind a teammate)

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

There has been a clear line of succession of the top GT riders and it has always been the person winning three or more Tours.

Bobet-Anquetil-Merckx-Hinault-LeMond-Indurain-Armstrong*-Contador*-Froome. I doubt the next one will be Quintana.

Who was better - Contador or Froome - will have to wait until they've both retired. My guess is it will be Froome.


(*Officially haven't won three, of course)

Fignon > LeMond

That is highly debatable. It's pretty darn close!
Lemond: 3 Tour wins (with 5 stage wins), 2 WCRR golds, 2 WCRR silvers, 2 Tour and 1 Giro podium (1 stage win)
Fignon: 2 Tour wins (with 9 stage wins), 1 Giro win (3 stages wins), add single podium at all three grand tours, not counting the overall wins (2 stage wins), 2 Milan San Remo's, 1 Fleche Wallone

Along with Pedro Delgado, they were the one's that really got me passionate about the sport. I've been riding seriously off and on ever since. Looking at their birthdates they're only a year younger than me!

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

And maybe it hasn't got anything to do with having a heart for the sport, but more with a resentment for whiny Giromantics, by far the most annoying kind of cyclingfan on the planet? OK, maybe not, he doesn't strike me as that kind of person. But I could sympathize with that.

You are allowed your opinion but please then also consider that to many cycling fans Tour de France fanboys are by far the most annoying fans. It doesn't go one way.

I'd gladly read any serious argument on why giromantics are more knowledgeable and profound cycling fans than moronic annoying july fans.

It's simple. July fans only care about the Tour, they don't know much about cycling history, they think Tour is everything. We had that situation with Americans 15 years ago, and now we have similar one...
Giro fans, on the other hand, are in love with this sport. You will not find a Giro fan who knows nothing about other races and doesn't care about them. They're passionate about the sport, who loves Giro, he loves cycling!

Are Tour fans bound to be "July fans"?

No, of course.

 

[ferryman]

Serious Sam must be purring away in his little corner given the number of bites his latest fishing trip has given him. It's just a pity for him he had to deviate from his usual sleekit way of posting to get so many bites.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Serious Sam must be purring away in his little corner given the number of bites his latest fishing trip has given him. It's just a pity for him he had to deviate from his usual sleekit way of posting to get so many bites.

Yup, I know. I'm guilty of taking the bait.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

And maybe it hasn't got anything to do with having a heart for the sport, but more with a resentment for whiny Giromantics, by far the most annoying kind of cyclingfan on the planet? OK, maybe not, he doesn't strike me as that kind of person. But I could sympathize with that.

You are allowed your opinion but please then also consider that to many cycling fans Tour de France fanboys are by far the most annoying fans. It doesn't go one way.

And with the least knowledge about cycling!

I'd gladly read any serious argument on why giromantics are more knowledgeable and profound cycling fans than moronic annoying july fans.

It's simple. July fans only care about the Tour, they don't know much about cycling history, they think Tour is everything. We had that situation with Americans 15 years ago, and now we have similar one...
Giro fans, on the other hand, are in love with this sport. You will not find a Giro fan who knows nothing about other races and doesn't care about them. They're passionate about the sport, who loves Giro, he loves cycling!

labeling froome supporters as annoying july fans and fanbots is classless and nauseating in any event.