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Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

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Is Froome over the hill?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 26 34.7%
  • No, the GC finished 40 minutes ago but Froomie is still climbing it

    Votes: 42 56.0%
  • No he is totally winning the Vuelta

    Votes: 18 24.0%

  • Total voters
    75
Pennino said:
huge said:
No Giro in 2018 once again.

Even if I understand the variety of reasons behind the choice, he will always look an incomplete rider to me.
A true champion must give a serious go at all 3 GTs!

Merckx, Anquetil, Hinault... the ones he is proud to be mentioned with in the same sentence... they wouldn't have become the legends they are without their results in Giro and the Vuelta.
And to that category, in modern cycling, only Nibali and Contador can be included.

Is Froome the best GC rider of the present era?
I don't know. I can only say he is the best Tour rider of the present era. And that in no way makes him the best GC rider overall.

Not to mention that massive, enormous advantage of having a team like Team Sky supporting him.

Would he have won 4 Tours if in a different team?
Definitely not this year, in my opinion.

How does that compare with, for example, Contador winning 2015 Giro without a team?
I consider that a much bigger feat than this year Froome's win. Despite of it still being an enormous achievement.

Agree with everything you wrote. And it's not only about Team Sky the team as in personal assistance on the road, but even more about Team Sky The Project, without which the world almost surely would have never heard of the Kenian cyclist Christopher Froome. And for me, that ruins everything.
Do you seriously think Froome wouldn't have beaten anti-timetrialists from Team Astana even not having a strong team?
 
miguelindurain111 said:
Pennino said:
huge said:
No Giro in 2018 once again.

Even if I understand the variety of reasons behind the choice, he will always look an incomplete rider to me.
A true champion must give a serious go at all 3 GTs!

Merckx, Anquetil, Hinault... the ones he is proud to be mentioned with in the same sentence... they wouldn't have become the legends they are without their results in Giro and the Vuelta.
And to that category, in modern cycling, only Nibali and Contador can be included.

Is Froome the best GC rider of the present era?
I don't know. I can only say he is the best Tour rider of the present era. And that in no way makes him the best GC rider overall.

Not to mention that massive, enormous advantage of having a team like Team Sky supporting him.

Would he have won 4 Tours if in a different team?
Definitely not this year, in my opinion.

How does that compare with, for example, Contador winning 2015 Giro without a team?
I consider that a much bigger feat than this year Froome's win. Despite of it still being an enormous achievement.

Agree with everything you wrote. And it's not only about Team Sky the team as in personal assistance on the road, but even more about Team Sky The Project, without which the world almost surely would have never heard of the Kenian cyclist Christopher Froome. And for me, that ruins everything.
sb3dvq.jpg
 
I don't think you can fault Froome in terms of GT riding when he's been trying for years to win the Vuelta after the Tour. He doesn't stand comparison to other 5-time Tour winners but then neither did Indurain, who was often rebuked for not targeting the monuments.
 
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I wonder when he will stop going for the Tour. Let's hope he gets the hint after 2 years of not winning and doesn't go into a 8 year loop of "my numbers are up there" / crash / burn / drop / fail..
 
Re:

hazaran said:
I wonder when he will stop going for the Tour. Let's hope he gets the hint after 2 years of not winning and doesn't go into a 8 year loop of "my numbers are up there" / crash / burn / drop / fail..
Looking at Froome's climbing this Tour I think that if he drops off from this he's winning neither the Tour nor the Giro.
 
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Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
hazaran said:
I wonder when he will stop going for the Tour. Let's hope he gets the hint after 2 years of not winning and doesn't go into a 8 year loop of "my numbers are up there" / crash / burn / drop / fail..
Looking at Froome's climbing this Tour I think that if he drops off from this he's winning neither the Tour nor the Giro.

Froomes climbing in this tour was very much superior to Dumoulins performance while TTs are equal. Given that Froome is not about to have a poo incident and Skys Giro squad is still 3 Sunwebs his climbing form can drop off *a lot*...

He could have snoozed through that Giro edition (so could have Dumoulin without that incident and a better team). I mean, he pretty much snoozed through this Tour safe for the mechanicals, and I'm sure that was enough bad luck to last him through a Vuelta incident free.
 
When there is no a long flat first week without mountain Froome cant have that day he drop everybody on the mountains, like this year route or last year route, by he showe his usual level on the ITT and as strong as always at the end of the Tour on the mountains, so he has showed he can win a Tour with this route antiFroome, it has a big merit, he is an amazing rider and person.
 
Yes, because following the great Romain Bardet on last climb attacks is very much superior climbing than destroying the likes of Quintana on Oropa. Climbing levels were very comparable this year. Froome might have won the Giro had he done it. If he gets worse, there's gonna be better climbers in both races.
 
Re: Re:

hazaran said:
Red Rick said:
hazaran said:
I wonder when he will stop going for the Tour. Let's hope he gets the hint after 2 years of not winning and doesn't go into a 8 year loop of "my numbers are up there" / crash / burn / drop / fail..
Looking at Froome's climbing this Tour I think that if he drops off from this he's winning neither the Tour nor the Giro.

Froomes climbing in this tour was very much superior to Dumoulins performance while TTs are equal. Given that Froome is not about to have a poo incident and Skys Giro squad is still 3 Sunwebs his climbing form can drop off *a lot*...

I disagree. Tom's TTs were better and also his overall climbing level on a much harder route. Froome didn't drop anybody of relevance and was zigzagging on Peyragudes.
 
Re:

SeriousSam said:
Very unlikely he gets to 7. Had Wiggins crashed in 2012 and Froome not crashed in 2014 he'd probably have 6 now and then it'd be conceivable he gets to 8. Lance's 7 consecutive victories is astounding even with all his unique advantages

If the future Tour routes contain a decent amount of tt miles (itt and ttt), I could see him getting 7 Tours. This year was less than a cakewalk because of his altered preparation to do the Tour/Vuelta double, the route having minimal tt miles, and what seems to be his seemingly intentional plan to not exert too much energy if he didn't have to.

Quintana returning to a singular Tour focus won't change things too much because he will still have that same problem with the time lost versus Froome against the clock and he will now have to also deal with the same problem when it comes to Dumoulin. This same issue is why Bardet and Aru have little hope of knocking Froome off of his throne.

For Sky and Froome fans it's just party time in July for the next few years. For the rest of us we can only hope for someone new to step up their game and become the new world beater in the grand tours. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone on the horizon that seems on the verge of becoming the cause for our hope.
 
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Re:

Red Rick said:
Yes, because following the great Romain Bardet on last climb attacks is very much superior climbing than destroying the likes of Quintana on Oropa. Climbing levels were very comparable this year. Froome might have won the Giro had he done it. If he gets worse, there's gonna be better climbers in both races.

Uh sure average watts for the climbs are comparable and that's a metric you are never going to fail Dumoulin on. But he would still be *utterly destroyed* in this Tour because he has no explosiveness. Constantly dropped and TT back is great if it's a MTF, but if someone like Froome or Bardet explode and get a group going over a descent you are losing a minute.

I like Dumoulins chances of improving but that guy needs to channel his inner Hamilton and do some 30s intervals..
Just think back to the puncture Froome had on that climb. I don't see Giro Dumoulin coming back from that.
 
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Re: Re:

Angliru said:
SeriousSam said:
Very unlikely he gets to 7. Had Wiggins crashed in 2012 and Froome not crashed in 2014 he'd probably have 6 now and then it'd be conceivable he gets to 8. Lance's 7 consecutive victories is astounding even with all his unique advantages

If the future Tour routes contain a decent amount of tt miles (itt and ttt), I could see him getting 7 Tours. This year was less than a cakewalk because of his altered preparation to do the Tour/Vuelta double, the route being having minimal tt miles, and what seems to be his seemingly intentional plan to not exert too much energy if he didn't have to.

Quintana returning to a singular Tour focus won't change things too much because he will still have that same problem with the time lost versus Froome against the clock and he will now have to also deal with the same problem when it comes to Dumoulin. This same issue is why Bardet and Aru have little hope of knocking Froome off of his throne.

For Sky and Froome fans it's just party time in July for the next few years. For the rest of us we can only hope for someone new to step up their game and become the new world beater in the grand tours. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone on the horizon that seems on the verge of becoming the cause for our hope.
I think we're going to have to wait for the Vuelta to determine the extent to which Froome's relative lacklustre performance this year reflects signs of decline vs an altered preparation with the Vuelta in mind

If the former, and it wouldn't be shocking given the historical distribution of Tour winning ages, I cannot see Froome winning 3 more Tours
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
If any of Froome or Dumoulin is to get better yet at climbing, it's Dumoulin. Dumoulin might beat Froome uphill in a year or two. If that happens, the Froome era is over.

Domoluin wanst at the level of Quintana when He was at his level in Blockhaus. Amd it the forst mountains stage of le Tour Froome is even better than Quintana. so, well, not a big difference, but Froome is today better. Anyway Dumoulin is already a big treath.
I hope to see a Tour when Froome, Quintana, Dumoulin and Landa at his best in different teams as leaders.

A Tour with at least 60 ITT in 2 days and and enough mountain, at least as this year, but better more.
 
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Re: Re:

Angliru said:
For Sky and Froome fans it's just party time in July for the next few years. For the rest of us we can only hope for someone new to step up their game and become the new world beater in the grand tours. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone on the horizon that seems on the verge of becoming the cause for our hope.

"World beaters" tend to develop really fast. Ok maybe not quite as fast as the Froome transformation but still it often only takes 1 year from hearing to their name to the guy smashing everything. You don't need to see them on the horizon, they will arrive to us. :)
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
hazaran said:
I wonder when he will stop going for the Tour. Let's hope he gets the hint after 2 years of not winning and doesn't go into a 8 year loop of "my numbers are up there" / crash / burn / drop / fail..
Looking at Froome's climbing this Tour I think that if he drops off from this he's winning neither the Tour nor the Giro.

I don't think he's declining, just on a different training/prep strategy this year as evidenced by his lack of results before the Tour. Plus his team will continue to be strong as long as Sky can offer the dollars to draw the talent that is willing to compromise all for one rider and one goal.
 
Re: Re:

deValtos said:
Angliru said:
For Sky and Froome fans it's just party time in July for the next few years. For the rest of us we can only hope for someone new to step up their game and become the new world beater in the grand tours. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone on the horizon that seems on the verge of becoming the cause for our hope.

"World beaters" tend to develop really fast. Ok maybe not quite as fast as the Froome transformation but still it often only takes 1 year from hearing to their name to the guy smashing everything. You don't need to see them on the horizon, they will arrive to us. :)

I think that there has to be a corresponding decline to some degree of the current champion and I don't see it in the immediate future. Additionally that new world beater will need a supporting cast that can at least somewhat counter the might of Sky. That's going to take a lot.
 
Re: Re:

deValtos said:
Angliru said:
For Sky and Froome fans it's just party time in July for the next few years. For the rest of us we can only hope for someone new to step up their game and become the new world beater in the grand tours. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone on the horizon that seems on the verge of becoming the cause for our hope.

"World beaters" tend to develop really fast. Ok maybe not quite as fast as the Froome transformation but still it often only takes 1 year from hearing to their name to the guy smashing everything. You don't need to see them on the horizon, they will arrive to us. :)

Shock transformers (Guys who performed in a GT on a level that came out of nowhere) that won a GT post Lance:

Wiggins, Froome, Horner.

That's a great list of people.

Also, riders like Cobo and Hesjedal look like Sastre compared to these guys, it's really hilarious.
 
Re:

dacooley said:
I'd gladly see Nibali trying something new if winning the Tours had perfectly worked. You can easily skip the Giro or Vuelta instead of defending the title, but deliberately skipping the Tour when it's up to you...When was the last time it happened?
For a deliberated choice to ride the other GTs not forced by other reasons you need to go to the 1973 Merckx that choose to do the Vuelta-Giro duoble and then he skipped the Tour.
In recent years we have Sastre that focused to the Giro in 2009 but then he rode also the Tour.
 
Re: Re:

Nirvana said:
dacooley said:
I'd gladly see Nibali trying something new if winning the Tours had perfectly worked. You can easily skip the Giro or Vuelta instead of defending the title, but deliberately skipping the Tour when it's up to you...When was the last time it happened?
For a deliberated choice to ride the other GTs not forced by other reasons you need to go to the 1973 Merckx that choose to do the Vuelta-Giro duoble and then he skipped the Tour.
In recent years we have Sastre that focused to the Giro in 2009 but then he rode also the Tour.
Yes, but as of 2009 Team Cervélo was pretty much Team Sastre so I don't think he had any choice on whether to start the Giro or not. :)
On the subject, Froome is never going to start the Giro for multiple reasons. Firstly, there's no need to change the tour-winning formula to please some category of fans. Secondly, he is not a spaniard, italian or frenchman so the tour is virtually his home grand tour, let's be outspoken, british and american teams are and will always be focus on the tour in the first place, that's the way their commercial interests work and it's a thing to be reckoned with. And thirdly, what's most important, it's too late, he has one or just a few years more on the top of his game.
 
Re: Re:

Rollthedice said:
hazaran said:
Red Rick said:
hazaran said:
I wonder when he will stop going for the Tour. Let's hope he gets the hint after 2 years of not winning and doesn't go into a 8 year loop of "my numbers are up there" / crash / burn / drop / fail..
Looking at Froome's climbing this Tour I think that if he drops off from this he's winning neither the Tour nor the Giro.

Froomes climbing in this tour was very much superior to Dumoulins performance while TTs are equal. Given that Froome is not about to have a poo incident and Skys Giro squad is still 3 Sunwebs his climbing form can drop off *a lot*...

I disagree. Tom's TTs were better and also his overall climbing level on a much harder route. Froome didn't drop anybody of relevance and was zigzagging on Peyragudes.

Yes but they know why that happened, Brailsford eluded to it. Most think it was a hunger bonk.
 
Re:

dacooley said:
I can easily fancy Tom easily surviving with Froome, Uran and Bartet on Mont du Chat.

No way.
Let's take a moment to analyze his giro. He won with merit because he proved to be the strongest. no doubt. But if we analyze each mountain stage it is almost always dropped: blockaus, stelvio, piancavallo, foza. Only to oropa was in front but all in all it was a climb suitable for him. Not to mention that quintana was at 70% of its possible and nibali is clearly fading phase.
 

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