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Chris Horner is torching knuckleheads and murdering everyone's name

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Humble about how he got his vuelta win thanks to other riders not on form. Comparing with Thomas. Like the conclusions. (Suggests Rogla was ill 🤒)
I like Horner and I like that he said he enjoyed this Giro because of the new or young names we got exposure to in the breakaways. (Same reason I enjoyed this Giro... true, the GC action was lamentable and utterly forgettable due to various circumstances. But I'm glad I got to see Gee, Healy, and some others get a chance at the limelight.)

PS - I think Horner is probably right, Rogla didn't look 100% to me either. Also, has it already been 10 years since Horner won the Vuelta? How time flies!
 
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I like Horner and I like that he said he enjoyed this Giro because of the new or young names we got exposure to in the breakaways. (Same reason I enjoyed this Giro... true, the GC action was lamentable and utterly forgettable due to various circumstances. But I'm glad I got to see Gee, Healy, and some others get a chance at the limelight.)

PS - I think Horner is probably right, Rogla didn't look 100% to me either. Also, has it already been 10 years since Horner won the Vuelta? How time flies!
If you search his channel there is a video around 40minutes long that details his vuelta win. Amazing stories and insights, especially about the Angliru climb you hear about things that happened off camera
 
I actually like Horner (fellow San Diego native) and his analysis is usually pretty interesting. My only issue with him is his delusional stance that Wout is somehow the the "greatest one day racer in the world", despite the the fact that MVDP continues to smoke him on a regular basis. Chris obviously has a hard __ for Wout because he loves the idea that an absolute freak like Wout is willing to sort of waste his career to domestique for less talented, scrawny GC guys like himself. Guys like MVDP and Wout shouldn't be worrying about green jerseys, or even worse, pulling skeletons up mountains.
 
Horner is great. His youtube channel is a great mix of juicy anecdotes, interesting tactical analysis & entertainment.

I mean of course he has a "protect the GC leader at all costs" approach but that's part of his charm. Especially when loads of other podcasters are jumping on the 'firing from the hip' bandwagon whereby cycling is encouraged to be a tactical free-for-all because it makes for "cool" TV moments when riders jump away from the bunch whenever, however & no matter the situation. Horner is here to remind everyone that a rider pulling on the front for his leader is the basis of a successful GC venture, even when viewers are shouting "boring!".
 

Chris Horner: Jumbo-Visma backed Sepp Kuss in Vuelta a España due to fans' outcry and PR nightmare​

Last male US Grand Tour winner backs Kuss for future leadership and believes he should stay at Jumbo-Visma but that Roglič should leave

 

Chris Horner: Jumbo-Visma backed Sepp Kuss in Vuelta a España due to fans' outcry and PR nightmare​

Last male US Grand Tour winner backs Kuss for future leadership and believes he should stay at Jumbo-Visma but that Roglič should leave

I can't stress what an idiot this guy is. Kuss isn't owed a debt from anyone, since he's paid to ride in a support role. Secondly, the only reason he wins this Vuelta, is because his team took aim at the wrong duck Evenepoel. Talk about a team sport. Thirdly, as a result if anyone is owed anything it's Vingegaard and Roglic, who are contracted to have support not vice versa. They, not Kuss, were told to sacrifice their own ambitions, after being assured each could race for the win. They are not the villans, but team operatives who decided to prioritize business over competition. The strongest doesn't always win it's true, but races should not be decided at the table by one team that has killed an already moribond event. The only reason to continue watching this Vuelta was to see if the Tour champion would overtake his domestique. Nothing against Sepp, but this type of victory is a disgrace to the sport, because it wasn't won with the legs or even by tactical astuteness, but by sheer fortune helped by the ineptitude of Soudal.
 
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I can't stress what an idiot this guy is. Kuss isn't owed a debt from anyone, since he's paid to ride in a support role. Secondly, the only reason he wins this Vuelta, is because his team took aim at the wrong duck Evenepoel. Talk about a team sport. Thirdly, as a result if anyone is owed anything it's Vingegaard and Roglic, who are contracted to have support not vice versa. They, not Kuss, were told to sacrifice their own ambitions, after being assured each could race for the win. They are not the villans, but team operatives who decided to prioritize business over competition. The strongest doesn't always win it's true, but races should not be decided at the table by one team that has killed an already moribond event. The only reason to continue watching this Vuelta was to see if the Tour champion would overtake his domestique. Nothing against Sepp, but this type of victory is a disgrace to the sport, because it wasn't won with the legs or even by tactical astuteness, but by sheer fortune helped by the ineptitude of Soudal.
With due respect, I don't know what you mean when saying the only reason Kuss won is due to his team taking aim at Evenepoel. Evenepoel bonked himself out of the race long before the finish, so there was no need to focus on a guy who was 25 minutes down on gc.
Also, you don't know JV and Roglic were assured they could race for the win. Who told you that -- Johan Bruyneel?
I agree that the only reason to keep watching was to see if JV would overtake Kuss, but I submit that the directors had that planned in order to avoid uncomfortable topics of conversation.
Horner is a carnival barker who, I have little doubt, is having fun creating outrageous narratives on purpose.
 
I can't stress what an idiot this guy is. Kuss isn't owed a debt from anyone, since he's paid to ride in a support role. Secondly, the only reason he wins this Vuelta, is because his team took aim at the wrong duck Evenepoel. Talk about a team sport. Thirdly, as a result if anyone is owed anything it's Vingegaard and Roglic, who are contracted to have support not vice versa. They, not Kuss, were told to sacrifice their own ambitions, after being assured each could race for the win. They are not the villans, but team operatives who decided to prioritize business over competition. The strongest doesn't always win it's true, but races should not be decided at the table by one team that has killed an already moribond event. The only reason to continue watching this Vuelta was to see if the Tour champion would overtake his domestique. Nothing against Sepp, but this type of victory is a disgrace to the sport, because it wasn't won with the legs or even by tactical astuteness, but by sheer fortune helped by the ineptitude of Soudal.
Nice drunkpost. What's it got to do with anything Horner said in that interview?
I dont see anything about a debt to Kuss, only that he says TJV only decided to shut down the attacks of Sepp because of public and media pressure.

Are you ranting on Honer or the team management???
 
Nice drunkpost. What's it got to do with anything Horner said in that interview?
I dont see anything about a debt to Kuss, only that he says TJV only decided to shut down the attacks of Sepp because of public and media pressure.

Are you ranting on Honer or the team management???
I wasn't drunk thank you. Well I'd have to watch the video again, but I seem to recall that Horner specifically stated that Sepp Kuss was owed "a debt" from Roglic and Vingegaard! I was ranting on both.
 
Horner is a carnival barker who, I have little doubt, is having fun creating outrageous narratives on purpose.
...i dunno....
he's doing the best post race post stage analysis.
you can tell how much time and effort he puts in.
Takes him like 8 hours at least to post his vids. I truly belive he is doing a ton of work and I respect his knowledge and experience.ie
Even sprint stages, he does an amazing breakdown.

He has seen it all and is my #1 go to Youtube channel for cycling

I dont think he really does the clickbait thing like you are suggesting
 
With due respect, I don't know what you mean when saying the only reason Kuss won is due to his team taking aim at Evenepoel. Evenepoel bonked himself out of the race long before the finish, so there was no need to focus on a guy who was 25 minutes down on gc.
Also, you don't know JV and Roglic were assured they could race for the win. Who told you that -- Johan Bruyneel?
I agree that the only reason to keep watching was to see if JV would overtake Kuss, but I submit that the directors had that planned in order to avoid uncomfortable topics of conversation.
Horner is a carnival barker who, I have little doubt, is having fun creating outrageous narratives on purpose.
Oh come on, with all due respect, do I need to answer these for you? Sepp was sent in a break to discommode Evenepoel and his team, which worked all too well. As I mentioned, Soudal never should have let Sepp in a forty-strong break. He was given a free ride into the lead, with an insurmountable (as it proved to be) advantage. Evenepoel collapsed out of all contention only afterward on the Tourmalet. But the team, exactly as I said, misguidedly took aim at Remco (the wrong duck) the day it ordered Sepp up the road and that's where he got the advantage to win. It's why he won, because on no other stage did he gain time on Vingegaard and Roglic, except after Jumbo clipped Vingegaard's wings for just 9 secs. Hindsite is 20/20, but ironically there was no need to put Sepp in a break working for his captains to place Remco under pressure, because eventually, as you say, Evenepoel took himself out of the race. And certainly the team wasn't thinking that by doing so Kuss could actually win the Vuelta. Had that been the case, Roglic and Vingegaard would never have approved and so Kuss would not have been allowed such a long leash. Whereas if the other teams knew just how dangerous he was, they (UAE and Movistar) would have worked with Soudal to bring that break back. He was sent up the road merely on domestique duty, but ironically it became the proverbial perfect storm that unbelievably netted him a Vuelta victory. To put a perverse twist to the plot, if Remco hadn't said that he wanted to give the jersey away, Kuss wouldn't have won the Vuelta. And we do know Vingegaard and Roglic were, at least until orders changed, assured they could ride for victory, because they said so in interviews.
 
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Soudal never should have let Sepp in a forty-strong break.[...]
And certainly the team wasn't thinking that by doing so Kuss could actually win the Vuelta.
You can't have it both ways. Either Kuss was a GC threat or he wasn't. This may not have been the plan for the day at the breakfast table, but the situation on the road became very clear very quickly. Kuss was a GC threat that everyone had to take seriously, or at least everyone who shows up to race (so no one born in Spain).
 

Chris Horner: Jumbo-Visma backed Sepp Kuss in Vuelta a España due to fans' outcry and PR nightmare​

Last male US Grand Tour winner backs Kuss for future leadership and believes he should stay at Jumbo-Visma but that Roglič should leave

They can have him in the same way they used him in the Vuelta. As a foil for their main leader. Other than that, his TT is not good enough to finish on the top spot which is the only objective for JV. Maybe in GTs where Roglic and Jonas are not there but not at the cost of non performance as helper for the leader.
 
You can't have it both ways. Either Kuss was a GC threat or he wasn't. This may not have been the plan for the day at the breakfast table, but the situation on the road became very clear very quickly. Kuss was a GC threat that everyone had to take seriously, or at least everyone who shows up to race (so no one born in Spain).
No, Soudal made a huge mistake. Kuss would not have been a GC threat, if the break wasn't large enough that Soudal could not prevent it from cruising Sepp so far ahead. At the same time Roglic and Vingegaard would never have allowed their teammate into that break, had they known it would gift him a Vuelta. Hence, the two points I made were completely valid.

It was evident right away that everyone had to take Sepp's GC threat seriously? Really? I didn't see a massive collaboration to help Soudal bring the break back, until it was too little, too late. Rather what I watched was a perfect storm, caused by the ineptitude of those teams who never should have let a break of that size with Kuss in it get away and Jumbo inadvertently preparing a plate for Roglic and Vingegaard that was instead served to Kuss. It was only when Sepp's stage win was assured that the TV commentators began asking "where are you going to take time back from Kuss in the rest of this Vuelta"? The fact is you could not have planned for what happened that day, but only the fortune of chance led to an unintended consequence all around. It's not that Kuss was allowed in a break that was the problem, but one so large that the time gap could not be controlled or at least not without a huge concerted effort. And all, both advesaries and his team, were slow to grasp the magnitude of the seriousness of the errors made. Of course, everything became all the more ironic when Evenepoel exploded on the Tourmalet stage, thus making pushing hard for Sepp to make the break previously an unnecessary tactical move. For the only reason was to put pressure on Remco, while the ferocious battle that led to the break becoming fatally too large was caused by Evenepoel telling the world he wanted to give up the jersey that day.
 
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The level at the Vuelta was in fact not low. I thought it was, I will admit, and that few 'came to race' so to speak, but looking at the Angliru times, actually the riders like Landa, Ayuso, Almeida, Mas, Uijtdebroecks, Vlasov and latterly Poels were climbing at elite levels, they were just blown away by the dominant Jumbo trio.

I also think that it being Kuss' third GT in a row meant at least the opposition, if not his own team, expected him to tire at some point so took the threat of him in that group a bit too lightly, hence not contributing to the chase and allowing the advantage to become too significant. And while he did undoubtedly tire a little later in the race, it was clearly not by as much as had been anticipated by others and he was still stronger than any non-Jumbo rider such that if they'd chosen to ride for him throughout he would still have comfortably done 'a Giovannetti'. The danger was it becoming 'a Nozal' at the hands of his teammates, as it was made clear at the start of week 3 that he was a sitting duck for Vingegaard with such a minimal time gap until the online backlash forced the team to lay down the law - but due to the buffer they'd built up over other teams with their dominance, that was something that they were able to do, whereas had any opposition rider been strong enough to be a viable threat, the team would likely not have taken such a decision because they'd want to safeguard the victory, and in that circumstance Jonas and Primož are both proven commodities who have shown to be stronger on the road, whereas Sepp is unproven as a leader and his lead was so tenuous after Angliru that he may have been forced back into his usual role in the circumstances.

Chris Horner has seen plenty but you do have to filter his opinions on events like this through the reputation he has as a massive American homer, with people in the péloton attesting back during his active career that his attitudes to riders from the US and to riders from elsewhere differ significantly. Hell, he even towed Tejay van Garderen up Alpe d'Huez in 2010 in pursuit of his own teammate who was leading the race, in order to get an American on the podium. He's also made a lot of his reputation as an online commenter on the sport through controversies, such as how he came to the attention of many outside North America as a commenter for his repeated 'knucklehead' rants at País Vasco (I don't know if his channel was already popular in the US before this, but for many outside, this was the first time it really became known and talked about). So his opinion on this situation has to be viewed through that lens; he's an ex-pro with a wealth of experience, but also somebody who has always had a known US bias, and who gets more clicks when controversy is generated.
 
Quick Step was too weak to control the breakaway.

The big mistake IMHO came from UAE. While Jumbo was putting Kuss up front in the general classification. Someone who very well could be a factor in the fight for overall victory given his climbing skills and lately improved TT performances, UAE was doing it with Soler, who has shown plenty of times he doesn't have it to podium a Grand Tour.

That eventually cost UAE a podium spot for Ayuso. Because if they had chased and reeled in the breakaway then gc Kuss never fully materializes. Instead he just works for Vingegaard & Roglic and successfully hangs on for a top 10 spot.

It's UAE's big tactical blunder. They already had a team that wasn't quite one. With Almeida refusing to work for his captain like always. Instead of establishing a clear pecking order they even added a 3rd cook to spoil the broth. Only to completely sacrifice Soler on the way towards Angliru for nothing. Ayuso had a cough. Almeida would ride for his 8th place at the general classification (which he hasn't archived either) instead of doing his job.

So while Quick Step was foolish to initially let that big group including Kuss go, they obviously weren't strong enough to control it during the stage. Neither was Remco strong enough to fight for the overall. But there was enough time to safe the situation for UAE. So personally I'm not gonna put the blame on the team & leader that was to weak, but rather on the team that had the horsepower but simply couldn't get their act together.
 
Oh come on, with all due respect, do I need to answer these for you? Sepp was sent in a break to discommode Evenepoel and his team, which worked all too well. As I mentioned, Soudal never should have let Sepp in a forty-strong break. He was given a free ride into the lead, with an insurmountable (as it proved to be) advantage. Evenepoel collapsed out of all contention only afterward on the Tourmalet. But the team, exactly as I said, misguidedly took aim at Remco (the wrong duck) the day it ordered Sepp up the road and that's where he got the advantage to win. It's why he won, because on no other stage did he gain time on Vingegaard and Roglic, except after Jumbo clipped Vingegaard's wings for just 9 secs. Hindsite is 20/20, but ironically there was no need to put Sepp in a break working for his captains to place Remco under pressure, because eventually, as you say, Evenepoel took himself out of the race. And certainly the team wasn't thinking that by doing so Kuss could actually win the Vuelta. Had that been the case, Roglic and Vingegaard would never have approved and so Kuss would not have been allowed such a long leash. Whereas if the other teams knew just how dangerous he was, they (UAE and Movistar) would have worked with Soudal to bring that break back. He was sent up the road merely on domestique duty, but ironically it became the proverbial perfect storm that unbelievably netted him a Vuelta victory. To put a perverse twist to the plot, if Remco hadn't said that he wanted to give the jersey away, Kuss wouldn't have won the Vuelta. And we do know Vingegaard and Roglic were, at least until orders changed, assured they could ride for victory, because they said so in interviews.
You conveniently fail to mention that Jumbo had four riders in the aforementioned break who drove it hard - Kuss did not stumble into the break and got lucky because other teams withmultiple riders drove the break.
 
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You conveniently fail to mention that Jumbo had four riders in the aforementioned break who drove it hard - Kuss did not stumble into the break and got lucky because other teams withmultiple riders drove the break.
Not at all! What diffence does it make? There could have been 100 Jumbo riders there, but only Kuss should not have been amongst them! Do you not get it? I conveniently fail to mention nothing.
 
The level at the Vuelta was in fact not low. I thought it was, I will admit, and that few 'came to race' so to speak, but looking at the Angliru times, actually the riders like Landa, Ayuso, Almeida, Mas, Uijtdebroecks, Vlasov and latterly Poels were climbing at elite levels, they were just blown away by the dominant Jumbo trio.

I also think that it being Kuss' third GT in a row meant at least the opposition, if not his own team, expected him to tire at some point so took the threat of him in that group a bit too lightly, hence not contributing to the chase and allowing the advantage to become too significant. And while he did undoubtedly tire a little later in the race, it was clearly not by as much as had been anticipated by others and he was still stronger than any non-Jumbo rider such that if they'd chosen to ride for him throughout he would still have comfortably done 'a Giovannetti'. The danger was it becoming 'a Nozal' at the hands of his teammates, as it was made clear at the start of week 3 that he was a sitting duck for Vingegaard with such a minimal time gap until the online backlash forced the team to lay down the law - but due to the buffer they'd built up over other teams with their dominance, that was something that they were able to do, whereas had any opposition rider been strong enough to be a viable threat, the team would likely not have taken such a decision because they'd want to safeguard the victory, and in that circumstance Jonas and Primož are both proven commodities who have shown to be stronger on the road, whereas Sepp is unproven as a leader and his lead was so tenuous after Angliru that he may have been forced back into his usual role in the circumstances.

Chris Horner has seen plenty but you do have to filter his opinions on events like this through the reputation he has as a massive American homer, with people in the péloton attesting back during his active career that his attitudes to riders from the US and to riders from elsewhere differ significantly. Hell, he even towed Tejay van Garderen up Alpe d'Huez in 2010 in pursuit of his own teammate who was leading the race, in order to get an American on the podium. He's also made a lot of his reputation as an online commenter on the sport through controversies, such as how he came to the attention of many outside North America as a commenter for his repeated 'knucklehead' rants at País Vasco (I don't know if his channel was already popular in the US before this, but for many outside, this was the first time it really became known and talked about). So his opinion on this situation has to be viewed through that lens; he's an ex-pro with a wealth of experience, but also somebody who has always had a known US bias, and who gets more clicks when controversy is generated.
Put another way, Jumbo unwittingly put the third strongest guy into the lead and then had a raving lunatic cheering him on.
 
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Quick Step was too weak to control the breakaway.

The big mistake IMHO came from UAE. While Jumbo was putting Kuss up front in the general classification. Someone who very well could be a factor in the fight for overall victory given his climbing skills and lately improved TT performances, UAE was doing it with Soler, who has shown plenty of times he doesn't have it to podium a Grand Tour.

That eventually cost UAE a podium spot for Ayuso. Because if they had chased and reeled in the breakaway then gc Kuss never fully materializes. Instead he just works for Vingegaard & Roglic and successfully hangs on for a top 10 spot.

It's UAE's big tactical blunder. They already had a team that wasn't quite one. With Almeida refusing to work for his captain like always. Instead of establishing a clear pecking order they even added a 3rd cook to spoil the broth. Only to completely sacrifice Soler on the way towards Angliru for nothing. Ayuso had a cough. Almeida would ride for his 8th place at the general classification (which he hasn't archived either) instead of doing his job.

So while Quick Step was foolish to initially let that big group including Kuss go, they obviously weren't strong enough to control it during the stage. Neither was Remco strong enough to fight for the overall. But there was enough time to safe the situation for UAE. So personally I'm not gonna put the blame on the team & leader that was to weak, but rather on the team that had the horsepower but simply couldn't get their act together.
I would agree with this, however, Soudal's ultimate weakness was having a blabber mouth Evenepoel announce to the world that he wanted to give up the jersey that day. It's why the fight for the break was so ferocious and thus why it became so numerous. Without that advantage, Sepp Kuss doesn't become a GC threat and rides in support of his captains as planned.
 
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