Chris Horner on the Nevada City race.

[BikeCentric]

Bro, there aint any of em' clean... That nice Mennonite (amish) man from Lancaster... Floyd Landis... he doesnt need to dope his clean V02 max is 90...nope.

What about that Tyler hamilton..with the nice dog and the soft demeaner... If anybody does not need to dope its that little tiny climber Heras. He doesnt weigh anything, nothing to slow him down. ... What about the British TT specialist Millar...Boardman's TT prodigy doesnt need epo? Surely that very very professional young man Ivan Basso doesnt need any dope, definately not frozen packed red cells from the freezer in nitrogen...surely not whole blood drawn off 2 weeks in advance! What about big Jan? Surely the uber talented rider who lived in Bavaria doesnt need to dope, let alone blood dope with his own blood! Or use IGF-1, slin, actovegin...

What about that american cancer survivor... Lance...he would never ever put Actovegin (free-protein calf blood extract) in his blood... surely he wouldnt come into a race jacked on epo and test positive a bunch of times... Or use that corticoids (kennocort)... He does not need corticoids for his saddle sores surely.

Carlos García Quesada
Marco Pantani
Ángel Casero
Alejandro Valverde
Rubén Plaza
David Bernabeu
David Blanco
Eladio Jiménez
David Latasa
Javier Pascual Rodríguez
Allan Davis
Joseba Beloki
Alberto Contador
David Etxebarría
Isidro Nozal
Unai Osa
Sérgio Paulinho
Michele Scarponi
Marcos Serrano
Ángel Vicioso.....

How about Tyler's Phonak squad... José Ignacio Gutiérrez, José Enrique Gutiérrez, Santiago Botero, they couldnt have doped with Fuentes... No

Óscar Sevilla, the best young rider in 2001..nope
Jörg Jaksche >> who said 100% of the riders on every team he was ever on doped... he must be lying he wouldnt be telling the truth...

Awwww BigB, why you gotta be popping the cherries of these poor little kids who just want to worship their hero?! They're just a couple of innocent doe-eyed Cat 5 virgins and you're all screaming at them like a mean older brother "GOD IS DEAD AND SANTA CLAUS DOES NOT EXIST!!"

 

[rhubroma]

Awwww BigB, why you gotta be popping the cherries of these poor little kids who just want to worship their hero?! They're just a couple of innocent doe-eyed Cat 5 virgins and you're all screaming at them like a mean older brother "GOD IS DEAD AND SANTA CLAUS DOES NOT EXIST!!"

Yes they're like small children who haven't arrived in the real world yet, because they have never opened up their eyes or used their brains. And I don't mean to belittle, but they are just small children trying to have a conversation with grown-ups.

 

[Oldman]

What started out as a "little" bike race in Nevada City

Now we've destilled the discussion to the basic cynicism vs. blind fanatacism, neither extreme serves the point or the truth. I've raced/trained with many of the NorthAm guys you all discuss and I can say over beers you are buying that both of you are correct. I've seen clean guys strong enough to drop LA on the flats and quick guys beating Petachi that are squeaky clean at this very minute. Until your family's food is at stake don't presume to know the motivation. No one is above temptation and, until you've been strong enough to know how much more that level of riding can hurt you-you know nothing.

 

[42coppi]

Nevada NOT

Big Fish - Little Pond and a home crowd.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Don't have the link, but while there are no official stats, some fool with more time on his hands than me did a pretty logical assessment on who has been tested - judging by wins, placings, races raced and out of competition testing, and concluded that Mario Cippolini, Laurent Jalabert and Erik Zabel all had to have been tested more than Lance. The "most tested athlete" is something Lance and his supporters cooked up because no one can produce reported numbers to refute it (or confirm it).

you've just become new meat... once you get big boat started... he'll be up all night giving us the sci fi/horror version of the sport.

More like CSPAN, but you've nailed it pretty well, sure.

Until your family's food is at stake don't presume to know the motivation. No one is above temptation and, until you've been strong enough to know how much more that level of riding can hurt you-you know nothing.

Stick around Oldman, you'll find some people on here were in a little deeper than you might realize.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm a minor leaguer I want the chance to face Linecum or someone like him every once in awhile. If you strike out, so what, but put some wood one and it looks awfully good.
Do you really think Ben Jacques-Maynes feels bad he finished ahead of Levi and Chris? He hung with some of the best in the world.
Undoubtedly the coolest second place he'll ever have.
Like him or not, Lance loves cycling and that's a cool race.

Exactly.. thinking back, if i had been entering a rubbish low level time trial, that perhaps given a fair breeze, bad performances from everyone else, and a little bit of fortune, i had a little chance of winning, and Chris Boardman happened to be taking a holiday and decided to turn up on full TT bike and take the field to peices, i would have loved it for that one chance to say i raced against him...

Seems to me Lance could have done two things, stayed in Aspen with Levi, Horner etc and just trained trained trained, or pop out to Nevada and race, why critisise him just for racing.. Its what he does..

I wonder how the other riders feel, a chance to test themselves and judge themselves againsts three of the best riders in the world and a chance to ride in front of a massive crowd.. dont see them complaining...

I wonder how the race organisers feel.. I had never heard of The Gila, or the Nevada City Race until now.. You really cant buy publicity like they just had...

I wonder how the fans feel, Lance and Levis attendance drew massive crowds to both races.. the crowds in Nevada where huge...

Thats of course without the LIvestrong foundation once more getting publicity for what they are trying to do..

One thing i think it does show and it does not bode well for contador, is just how much sway Lance does hold at Astana, how much in charge of that team he is.. What other team manager but JB would let two genuine tour de france contenders do something as stupid as risking injury in a US Crit Race a couple of weeks before the start of the tour..

 

[msjett]

I am amazed about the amount of speculation (proven or not) about Armstrong.

I do find it hard to believe that someone having survived cancer (secondaries in the lungs is my understanding, chances are slim to comeback from that) would be doing anything other than living healthy, and not taking risks even calculated ones with their health.

 

[BroDeal]

I do find it hard to believe that someone having survived cancer (secondaries in the lungs is my understanding, chances are slim to comeback from that) would be doing anything other than living healthy, and not taking risks even calculated ones with their health.

That artificial EPO in Armstrong's '99 urine samples must have gotten there by magic.

That is an incredibly weak argument. At the beginning of his cancer treatment Armstrong confessed to taking a whole range of drugs before cancer. We know from retrospective testing that he was using drugs after his treatment. So the facts say you are wrong. But even beyond the facts, the very argument has little weight. You are assigning some sort of sainthood to someone because he had a disease. You could just as easily make an argument that a person with cancer, given the chance for wealth and the ability to live better that comes with it, would be more inclined to dope than a regular person.

 

[Anonymous]

but equally one could question the level of hate directed at him.. is he the only person to have doped during his career and denied it...

or is it just that hes the only american, seven time tour winner to have done so..

 

[msjett]

Brodeal, It was an opinion not an argument....I thought you could at least tell the difference. And no I don't believe he is a saint. And I didn't say he was and as I am not the Pope, I won't be assigning one too him anytime soon.

 

[Sheltowee]

When I saw Levi failing at the Giro I thought that's due to his Northern California spring schedule. You can't race in the states and be competitive at a Grand Tour. Nevada City is like a pimple on a gnat's *ss compared to any pro euro race.

And you know this for sure? How?

 

[BroDeal]

Brodeal, It was an opinion not an argument....I thought you could at least tell the difference. And no I don't believe he is a saint. And I didn't say he was and as I am not the Pope, I won't be assigning one too him anytime soon.

The word argument has several different meanings. The relevant one here is: "A course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood: presented a careful argument for extraterrestrial life."

 

[msjett]

The word argument has several different meanings. The relevant one here is: "A course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood: presented a careful argument for extraterrestrial life."

lol - Glad to see you get the dictionary out....I understand you don't agree with my opinion/argument, and have "arguments" support your opinion/argument.

And as I had said, I just find it hard to believe...not that it isn't, didn't, can't be being done or already done...

Hence opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one.

 

[SpeedWay]

Now we've destilled the discussion to the basic cynicism vs. blind fanatacism, neither extreme serves the point or the truth. I've raced/trained with many of the NorthAm guys you all discuss and I can say over beers you are buying that both of you are correct. I've seen clean guys strong enough to drop LA on the flats and quick guys beating Petachi that are squeaky clean at this very minute. Until your family's food is at stake don't presume to know the motivation. No one is above temptation and, until you've been strong enough to know how much more that level of riding can hurt you-you know nothing.

This is their modus operandi with a new twist that if you don't agree with them your just a kid. The same old crap over and over and over and over and over and over and over .... kids that will never grow up.

 

[Bala Verde]

...?

Oh no... not again.. You unleashed the Mongolian Horde... it's not going to be fun being around this thread anymore...

 

[lostintime]

Hey , WTF? I thought this was a thread about Nevady City, not more dope crappola.

Take your conspiracy theories and doping gossip and go for a ride off the deep end.


Back to the present moment please.

 

[nobody]

Since Lance is the most tested sportsman in history (fact) and since he has never been proven (fact) to have doped, where do you get off stating as if it were a fact that you know that he's doped now?

Armstrong was few tested, look:

Le 23/08/2005, L'Equipe, s'appuyant sur des sources UCI, publie la liste des contrôles antidopage auxquels Lance Armstrong s'est soumis de 1999 à 2004. On pourra être surpris par le fait que les contrôles sont de moins en moins nombreux.

1999 : 15 contrôles urinaires conventionnels (1 positif à la triamcinolone acétonide - corticoïdes, 14 négatifs)
2000 : 12 contrôles urinaires conventionnels (tous négatifs)
2001 : 10 contrôles urinaires conventionnels, dont 5 avec détection de l'EPO (tous négatifs)
2002 : 9 contrôles urinaires conventionnels incluant la recherche d'HES, dont 8 avec détection de l'EPO (tous négatifs)
2003 : 9 contrôles urinaires conventionnels incluant la recherche d'HES, dont 6 avec détection de l'EPO (tous négatifs)
2004 : 8 contrôles urinaires conventionnels incluant la recherche d'HES, dont 7 avec détection de l'EPO (tous négatifs). 1 contrôle sanguin de détection des hémoglobines de synthèse (négatif).

That is just UCI controls you should add some USADA testing, but that is very far of the 160 Marion Jones' testing with no positive test despite a lot of PED consumming !

Riders like Jalabert, Cippolini, ... who have wond a lot of races have been more tested than Armstrong: every winner is tested! You just has to count their victories!

 

[nobody]

I am amazed about the amount of speculation (proven or not) about Armstrong.

I do find it hard to believe that someone having survived cancer (secondaries in the lungs is my understanding, chances are slim to comeback from that) would be doing anything other than living healthy, and not taking risks even calculated ones with their health.

How many people who have got a cancer by tobbaco or alcohol still drink or smoke? How many high mountain climbers who have seen the death are still climbing? How many drivers still drive after accident?

I have a friend who was lucky to no be dead says that he is on a bonus live... sohe don't have more fear than earlier.

 

[**Uru**]

It annoys me to hear all this talk about Lance being a confirmed doper, or that he was not a doper. To me it all comes down to blah, blah, blah. He did not get sanctioned if he did dope. Period.

And now for something completely different...

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/non_doping_cyclists_finish_tour_de

 

[Kennf1]

It annoys me to hear all this talk about Lance being a confirmed doper, or that he was not a doper. To me it all comes down to blah, blah, blah. He did not get sanctioned if he did dope. Period.

And now for something completely different...

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/non_doping_cyclists_finish_tour_de

Gotta love The Onion. "Lanterne Naturelle". Hilarious!

 

[BikeCentric]

Armstrong does not belong in a race like Nevada City. Love him or hate him, the man is on a different level from pro/1/2 USA domestic riders. He does not belong in their peloton; Armstrong belongs in Europe racing in the ProTour peloton. Personally I'm not interested in watching one of the best bike racers in the world stomp the **** out of inferior (relative to him) competition and lapping the field twice. If the man wants racing miles in his legs then he belongs in Europe in the Dauphine with the other Tour contender who are prepping for Le Grand Boucle in that race.

 

[Anonymous]

Armstrong does not belong in a race like Nevada City. Love him or hate him, the man is on a different level from pro/1/2 USA domestic riders. He does not belong in their peloton; Armstrong belongs in Europe racing in the ProTour peloton. Personally I'm not interested in watching one of the best bike racers in the world stomp the **** out of inferior (relative to him) competition and lapping the field twice. If the man wants racing miles in his legs then he belongs in Europe in the Dauphine with the other Tour contender who are prepping for Le Grand Boucle in that race.

in case you hadn't noticed, they're doing high altitude training in colorado.

they were back in their own beds that night.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Maybe they should enter a few Cat 5 races in Colorado to get in more training?

Armstrong was few tested, look:You just has to count their victories!

Good link. But that's not counting likely random testing due to racing days and schedule and country. The results you concluded are likely pretty accurate though, as I stated in my previous post. Cippolini, Jalabert and Zabel all raced way more and won way more than Lance. Several other rides likely as well (McEwen, Simoni, O'Grady, Sastre, etc.). From there, it's simple math.

As to cancer. EPO and blood doping has zero link to cancer. Not one. As a matter of fact, when in recovery cancer patients are given EPO. Even steroids aren't known to give you cancer - they are only suspected to possibly do so in extremely high and prolonged doses (Lyle Alzado), and even then not proven for fact.

 

[BigBoat]

\

As to cancer. EPO and blood doping has zero link to cancer. Not one. As a matter of fact, when in recovery cancer patients are given EPO. Even steroids aren't known to give you cancer - they are only suspected to possibly do so in extremely high and prolonged doses (Lyle Alzado), and even then not proven for fact.

HGH though.

 

[dgodave]

What I want to know is: do the other racers at Nevada City resent Astana's presence, or do they relish it... or something in between?
.