Chris Hoy - hard work and dreaming big

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Mar 13, 2009
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heart_attack_man said:
Yep - in hindsight, it makes me LOL at how brazen they actually were.

If I recall correctly, I think they also used to talk about altitude tents and what-not...

Edit: Sorry for the OT...
did the lions also have low temperature climate tents in the rooms at half time also, to get their temperature down as well as the cannula hydration
 
Sep 14, 2011
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Let's cut out all this rubbish about never testing positive and let's look at the facts. Almost every successful road cyclist during the nineties and noughties is now a known doper. Almost every successful sprinter in athletics in that period (including in the eighties) is now a known doper. How is it that all these track cyclists, many of whom are earning a pittance, can get away with it year after year, almost without exception? I'd like some sensible answers, not stuff about me having a Union Jack tattooed on my backside.

Also, how stupid is Gregory Bauge? Every other track cyclist (including his teammates and training partners) is doped to the eyeballs on stuff which the tests are unable to detect. Why on earth was he so stupid to take stuff which meant he had to evade the testers to avoid being caught?
 
Jul 21, 2012
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heart_attack_man said:
I feel considerably dumber having read this thread...

Agree with the above - dominating any sport through one of sports most "doped" eras (assuming that this isn't the case now - which is an assumption I don't wish to make...), if not condemning on "evidence" rings massive alarm bells for me. IMHO.

I have included in my analysis of this above statement my personal favourite sports team that won 3 AFL grand finals back to back (and made the GF 5 years in a row) in the early 2000's. If they weren't up to their eyeballs in it, I don't know who was.

Do I have any photographs of Hoy with a blood bag attached, or a syringe sticking out of his arm? Sorry...
good post. I still havent seen anyone come up with a plausible scenario for why track cycling is cleans.

does doping help? - check
are the tests easy to beat? - check
are track cyclists human? - check

More than enough for me to call BS on someone who dominates that sport.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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the hitch said:
which funnily enough is more than most of the cyclists who in the last 2 or 3 years were outed as having doped in the 2000's.


Anyway you seem to me to be new to this doping thing.

I think reading and watching a little bit on the history of doping and how it works could help you in future discussions in the clinic - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wf2t6i2e1u
got a link to that in english, seems very interesting?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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the sceptic said:
good post. I still havent seen anyone come up with a plausible scenario for why track cycling is cleans.

does doping help? - check
are the tests easy to beat? - check
are track cyclists human? - check

More than enough for me to call BS on someone who dominates that sport.
it is not like it is a smear for most of us here. we are realist, we are not besmirching anyone's character by asserting that there is a high probability they dope.

the people who throw that allegation of defaming character at us, are actually the one(s) bringing the value judgement to the debate that doping = poor character, poor moral standing.

i am not making a value judgement on hoy. he could be a brilliant person. he could be an utter bast@rd like armstrong. does it matter? this is not the point, the discussion is about doping in cycling.
 
That's nonsense.....an accusation of doping.....by whatever half-baked formula you get it from....is an accusation of cheating........cheating has a moral aspect and therefore to accuse of cheating is to make a value judgement........the ONLY reason why you do it with so little regard to frankly anything is because you feel that the internet affords you a certain anonymity.......I'll bet my house you wouldn't make those accusations under your own name whether in print ......or in person to Hoy.........that in itself is illustrative of not only your actual lack of confidence in the veracity of your accusations.....but also of your own moral fibre......let's be honest about this

Mark L
 
Mar 13, 2009
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if you get me a one on one meeting, i will gladly espouse my pov to hoy.

there are two rules, one publicly espoused, and then the insider norm. They still have ratified doping as an acceptable act within those professional athletes. I wont hold that against them.

wrt my hypocrisy? i concede that i do hold it against them for their public lies. The public lies are necessary, and one issue that i do criticise and make a value judgement. p'raps this is the one point i need to reconcile. If i dont hold it against riders for doping, why do i hold it against them for lying about it.

I might have to make amends on the last point.

but MArk, re: doping = cheating. No, we disagree here. I dont see it as cheating their fellow competitors.
 
May 26, 2010
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ebandit said:
Pity old Kimmage (or anyone) can't seem to come up with anything of any substance at all then, isn't it.......
Walsh got his evidence on Armstrong handed to him on a plate..........as for 'invented illnesses' etc .....truisms thought up and then self-perpetuated and reinforced nowhere but on cycling news 'clinic' forum can be given all the credibility they deserve ha ha ha ha

Mark L
Since no one is willing to 'hand anything to anyone on a plate', why do you expect the likes of Kimmage, Walsh et al to write about doping in the UK without hard evidence?

But because there nothing being handed out, does that mean the athletes are clean?

Nope. Even when stuff was 'handed to him on a plate' about Armstrong it still took over a decade for a 'reasoned decision'.

Olympic sports are doping riddled. Every so often some athletes get caught, but that is due to their stupidity and not the efforts of the IOC. So given how 'ethical' the British are, how can their athletes beat the 'unethical' athletes from countries running sponsored doping programs?
 
Feb 28, 2010
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blackcat said:
but MArk, re: doping = cheating. No, we disagree here. I dont see it as cheating their fellow competitors.
It's cheating as defined by the rules, and it does cheat fellow competitors because they feel forced to cheat to compete.
 
ebandit said:
That's nonsense.....an accusation of doping.....by whatever half-baked formula you get it from....is an accusation of cheating........cheating has a moral aspect and therefore to accuse of cheating is to make a value judgement........the ONLY reason why you do it with so little regard to frankly anything is because you feel that the internet affords you a certain anonymity.......I'll bet my house you wouldn't make those accusations under your own name whether in print ......or in person to Hoy.........that in itself is illustrative of not only your actual lack of confidence in the veracity of your accusations.....but also of your own moral fibre......let's be honest about this

Mark L
Umm no.

Refusing to put ones name to accusations is not a sign that someone doubts them.

I can give you the analogy of powerful criminals or drug lords in some countries where witnesses in court cases against them are found head first in rivers and journalists who question what happened end up disappearing. Any criticism against said criminal stops. By your logic it's because no one really believes he is a bad guy, right? We both know other factors are at play. In cycling Armstrong unleashed Hell on anyone who said anything. There's always the threat of court cases where as Armstrong showed, no matter how right you are you will still lose because the process is tilted heavily in favour of the athlete. There is also, especially in the case of very famous athletes, a unpleasant process of media mockery and ridicule journalists risk being subjected to, and threats on their person.

Or if you want a more direct example of what happens to internet users look at what happened to digger on Twitter when someone found out his identity, behaviour far more offensive and insulting than the accusation of cheating can ever be.

So no, people aren't necessarily unconvinced. They just now it's safer to not take that risk.
:
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Wow another empty vessel of a clinic thread, bereft of any substance beyond 'he won there for he must have doped' and sprinkled liberally with the tired skybot references and anti-British comments. Tremendous, don't ever change (and I am certain none of you will).
 
JimmyFingers said:
Wow another empty vessel of a clinic thread, bereft of any substance beyond 'he won there for he must have doped' and sprinkled liberally with the tired skybot references and anti-British comments. Tremendous, don't ever change (and I am certain none of you will).
Would you call it irony, if someone complained about lack of substance in a thread (and complained in said thread) without adding any substance themselves?
 
Feb 28, 2010
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blackcat said:
fallacy of coercion.
Why is it a fallacy? I thought we were in an arms race, where only those who dope win? The only hope for non-dopers is to dope, or leave top level cycling.
 
Are some confusing Madchester, the Haçienda and Factory Records with
Manchester, the National Cycling Centre and the Gold Medal Factory?

At either world famous venue, one may have seen young men or women
vomiting or curled up in the foetal position. At the Haçienda the cause
was likely drink, ectasy or acid. At the Velodrome it would be due to a
Herculean effort on the track or ergo.

The two Temples did co-exist for at time, only a ten minute ride apart,
but the Velodrome's rise on the world stage coincided with the Haçienda's
demise. Neither the Haçienda or Factory Records ever received any Lottery
funding that I am aware of.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Hawkwood said:
Why is it a fallacy? I thought we were in an arms race, where only those who dope win? The only hope for non-dopers is to dope, or leave top level cycling.
yeah, so who has coerced them into winning and doping to win? There is no by-rule in the charter for human rights that compels a rider the chance to win at Olympics <absurdity reducto intended>
 
Mar 13, 2009
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oldcrank said:
Are some confusing Madchester, the Haçienda and Factory Records with
Manchester, the National Cycling Centre and the Gold Medal Factory?

At either world famous venue, one may have seen young men or women
vomiting or curled up in the foetal position. At the Haçienda the cause
was likely drink, ectasy or acid. At the Velodrome it would be due to a
Herculean effort on the track or ergo.

The two Temples did co-exist for at time, only a ten minute ride apart,
but the Velodrome's rise on the world stage coincided with the Haçienda's
demise. Neither the Haçienda or Factory Records ever received any Lottery
funding that I am aware of.
ian curtis ftw, how far away is manchester university, was no alan turin an alumnus there or the merged man tech?
 
Netserk said:
Would you call it irony, if someone complained about lack of substance in a thread (and complained in said thread) without adding any substance themselves?
re your sig. - a) who decides what is "tactically and/or strategically more sound" and b) by that definition the weaker rider in a break/ group/ escape is always justified to wheelsuck. In fact everyone but the race favourite is pretty much always justified in wheelsucking.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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The Hitch said:
re your sig. - a) who decides what is "tactically and/or strategically more sound" and b) by that definition the weaker rider in a break/ group/ escape is always justified to wheelsuck. In fact everyone but the race favourite is pretty much always justified in wheelsucking.
is this not like an equilibrium handicap in the peloton.

If you are known as a rider who likes to Levi, see how i used Levi as a verb, a synonym to wheelsuck,

if you get the reputation for not pulling thru and doing your turn, no one will ever ride with you, so this is this axiomatic handicap that finds equilibrium.
 
blackcat said:
ian curtis ftw, how far away is manchester university, was no alan turin an alumnus there or the merged man tech?
On the short ride from the former site of the Haçienda
to the Velodrome one would pass near the Alan Turing
Memorial in the first quarter mile or so and also cross
the Alan Turing Way less than a quarter mile from the
Gold Medal Factory.
 
May 26, 2010
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JimmyFingers said:
Wow another empty vessel of a clinic thread, bereft of any substance beyond 'he won there for he must have doped' and sprinkled liberally with the tired skybot references and anti-British comments. Tremendous, don't ever change (and I am certain none of you will).
Yet you keep coming back to threads about British riders with the same old tired lambasting the clinic. One would think you might be obfuscating at best Jim, or trolling, as it appears you last contributions offer nothing yet you post it verbatim.
 

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