Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[joseph89]

“In the case of Uijtdebroeks, there were tensions in the team. That is probably not an urgent reason to terminate the contract. Then you will indeed have to negotiate to find a solution. Then compensation is often the solution. How big are those amounts? This can be included in the contract in advance. If this is not the case, an amount is set based on various factors. Uijtdebroeks is of course important for BORA - hansgrohe. He is a promising rider, took eighth place in the Vuelta, he is a good communicator, the rider also has many supporters... then that amount could increase.” lawyer Walter van Steenbrugge, who represented Van Aert.

Transfersaga rond Cian Uijtdebroeks doet denken aan zaak Van Aert-Nuyens: “Zover zal het nu wel niet komen”

Jumbo-Visma kondigde zaterdagavond de komst van Cian Uijtdebroeks aan. BORA-hansgrohe wil Uijtdebroeks echter aan zijn contract houden. De soap doet denken aan de zaak rond Wout van Aert en Nick Nuyens. Nu dreigt voor Uijtdebroeks mogelijk ook een vechtscheiding voor de rechtbank. “Al komt het...

www.hln.be

 

[CyclistAbi]

His problem seems to be “demands”

It's like with Ineos. They seem rather unprepared to pay for a top rider. Having a budget as they do. They would likely sign one if they would get him for free. Well, then wait for the contract to expire and after you can indeed sign such rider for free.

 

[CyclistAbi]

If Cian is a future GT winner then 1 million is basically peanuts. If he is not then he still might be worth that amount. If in doubt and don't want to make that bet? Well. Wait for existing contract to expire.

 

[joseph89]

If Cian is a future GT winner then 1 million is basically peanuts. If he is not then he still might be worth that amount. If in doubt and don't want to make that bet? Well. Wait for existing contract to expire.

Lefevere wanted 2 million for Almeida when UAE came knocking and he was on a neo-pro contract at the time so 1 million seems fair.

 

[Aimar16]

Apparently it wasn't irrelevant to Vlasov

It was probably irrelevant to him as he was just following others on stage 20

 

[CyclistAbi]

I guess this transfer could still end up the same as JV and QOS merger.

 

[roundabout]

It's just a ridiculous amount, if his annual salary was really just above 100,000 euros, a million euro buyout for one year remaining of his contract is of course way too much. That won't hold up in any court, unless it explicity says so in the contract. Visma aren't as rich as people always assume they are, but even if they were they'd be crazy to pay one million just because Bora feel like blackmailing their rider.

Interestingly, Wielerflits also says that Bora didn't pay the buyout money for Roglic either, Roglic arranged that himself (maybe with the help of Red Bull, I don't know). That makes their current stance even more ridiculous.

I don't see what makes Bora stance ridiculous. ex Jumbo Visma was likely compensated for a rider who had a valid contract leaving and Bora would also like to be compensated for a rider with a valid* contract leaving.

*Uijtdebroeks and ex Jumbo Visma are not the final authority on whether or not the contract with Bora is still valid.

Uijtdebroeks seemingly breaking his contract specifically for ex Jumbo Visma is on the other hand extremely suspect, but I guess neither you nor the ex Jumbo Visma care about about optics of possibly being seen interfering in contracts of others.

And this potential interference is the most ridiculous thing.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

He was riding with the Israel guys in training today (Froome & Fuglsang)... whilst apparently wearing Jumbo shorts + a Bora helmet:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1733894353926394313

View: https://twitter.com/Jpeschardt01/status/1733894353926394313


His behavior is... strange.

Wow, surprised to see Froom and Fulsgang training in their normal team kits for once and not in all black.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Him training with Froome and Birdsong is a great sign of willigness to now improve in the art of bizarre excuses after already being a pro at having an obnoxious mentality.

 

[scribers]

I saw it more as Froome desperate to remain relevant in pro cycling

 

[Berniece]

If Cian is a future GT winner then 1 million is basically peanuts. If he is not then he still might be worth that amount. If in doubt and don't want to make that bet? Well. Wait for existing contract to expire.

It's not about Cian being a future GT winner. The 1 million is only for this season, and what Cian would generate this season. 1 millions seems a lot. Even with a great Giro, and sponsorship deals that would benefit Bora, I can't imagine Cian generating 1 million net profit on top of his wages and everything else around it.

 

[search]

It's not about Cian being a future GT winner. The 1 million is only for this season, and what Cian would generate this season. 1 millions seems a lot. Even with a great Giro, and sponsorship deals that would benefit Bora, I can't imagine Cian generating 1 million net profit on top of his wages and everything else around it.

sounds like a lot of money to me as well. Nuyens asked for 800k back then to terminate van Aert's contract.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

It's just a ridiculous amount, if his annual salary was really just above 100,000 euros, a million euro buyout for one year remaining of his contract is of course way too much. That won't hold up in any court, unless it explicity says so in the contract.

It's an opening gambit in a negotiation. But a contract must have a value to both sides, and no side can be obliged to terminate it (unless they are in breach, or some clause is triggered), but can be induced, financially or otherwise, to do so. And they are entitled to decide what level of financial recompense is sufficient for them to consent lose that asset. Any court will say that a party to a contract has the right to see the contract fulfilled unless they agree to the contrary (except in the case of force majure, which certainly does not apply here).

Visma aren't as rich as people always assume they are, but even if they were they'd be crazy to pay one million just because Bora feel like blackmailing their rider.

If Visma want to start acting like a football team, trying to lure away athletes while they are under contract, they need to either gain the finances to do so, or limit their ambition. That team's financial limitations were made very clear a couple of months ago, but that is a reality they must acknowledge and limit their aggressive behaviour in the face of.

Blackmail? Where does that enter into it? Uijtdebroeks freely entered into a contract that he is being expected to abide by. If he does not wish to do so, he needs to negotiate a way out of it.

Interestingly, Wielerflits also says that Bora didn't pay the buyout money for Roglic either, Roglic arranged that himself (maybe with the help of Red Bull, I don't know). That makes their current stance even more ridiculous.

It is no business of Visma's where the money came from: they expected to be compensated for the loss of an asset (Roglic's services), and they were, at a level that they chose to accept. Now they must do the same if they want an asset that Bora own. If Bora did good business in getting someone else to subsidise them in that deal, that is good business. It might make Visma jealous, but it has no meaningful effect on the matter at hand.



I don't like to see cycling doing down the soccer transfer path,although I suspect that the recent move to longer contracts, especially for younger riders, is essentially inviting such a thing. But I'll raise that in the transfers thread, rather than push this one off topic.

 

[CyclistAbi]

It's not about Cian being a future GT winner. The 1 million is only for this season, and what Cian would generate this season. 1 millions seems a lot. Even with a great Giro, and sponsorship deals that would benefit Bora, I can't imagine Cian generating 1 million net profit on top of his wages and everything else around it.

So if Bora says OK, you can go for free, and after Cian changes his mind. I would rather ride for Ineos. Then Visma will let him go for 100k? Or whatever his annual salary will be.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Cian in this situation is not some sort of champion that has done so much for Bora and he needs or deserves some sympathies. He likely just wants a bigger salary then Bora can or is prepared to give him. In the end this is his prerogative and i don't blame him for that. But due to his existing contract with Bora, this is in between Bora and Visma now. If Visma wants for Cian to race for them in 2024 season. Then they will need to negotiate a compensation. It would be unfair to Bora if Cian would be allowed to race for Visma in 2024 season without that happening first. And all in all. If the transfer doesn't go thorough. Then Cian will just have to race for Bora. For one whole more session. Oh. On just how could one manage that. Hang on!

 

[Berniece]

So if Bora says OK, you can go for free, and after Cian changes his mind. I would rather ride for Ineos. Then Visma will let him go for 100k? Or whatever his annual salary will be.

No, I’m saying 1 million is just too much. 100K is not enough.

 

[yaco]

It's like with Ineos. They seem rather unprepared to pay for a top rider. Having a budget as they do. They would likely sign one if they would get him for free. Well, then wait for the contract to expire and after you can indeed sign such rider for free.

Except, Ineos had to pay a fee to Movistar, to have Rodriguez renege on his pre-contract signed with Movistar.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Can't wait for a (word) clash between this prima donna and a Remco tantrum.

 

[Ricco']

Cian in this situation is not some sort of champion that has done so much for Bora and he needs or deserves some sympathies. He likely just wants a bigger salary then Bora can or is prepared to give him. In the end this is his prerogative and i don't blame him for that. But due to his existing contract with Bora, this is in between Bora and Visma now. If Visma wants for Cian to race for them in 2024 season. Then they will need to negotiate a compensation. It would be unfair to Bora if Cian would be allowed to race for Visma in 2024 season without that happening first. And all in all. If the transfer doesn't go thorough. Then Cian will just have to race for Bora. For one whole more session. Oh. On just how could one manage that. Hang on!

Cian is 20 and is progressing quite well, with a long career in front of him. Why settle now in a multiyear contract where he could negotiate a bigger deal in the end of 2024 season with bigger results that would be naturally expected from a U23 rider who is progressing really well?

Jumbo would be the biggest gainers with this move, because they could have a rider with the future outlook of Uijtdebroeks for a fraction of what he could cost them a year from now.

 

[CyclistAbi]

No, I’m saying 1 million is just too much. 100K is not enough.

We likely don't know half of it. What 1 million basically says is Bora is prepared to let Cian go, for compensation. As Visma signed Cian without being bothered about that. So if both situations are a bit too extreme. Negotiations and compromises can lead to transfer happening, or not.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Except, Ineos had to pay a fee to Movistar, to have Rodriguez renege on his pre-contract signed with Movistar.

Imagine that.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

No, I’m saying 1 million is just too much. 100K is not enough.

It is for the owner of an asset, and no-one else, to determine what price they want to charge for that asset. If a potential buyer is willing to meet that price, they can sell: if more than one potential buyer would be willing to pay that, the vendor has undervalued it. (I'm not advocating slavery: the asset is a contract, not a person, and that person had every opportunity to determine the length of the contract in their negotiations. I am not suggesting a situation as in pre-Bosman soccer whereby a player's registration stayed with a team after the contract had finished)

So Berniece would be delighted to trade at 100k, but not willing to go to 1M. Perhaps someone can let Bora know that. More relevant though is the price at which a team that Uijtdebroeks would like to ride for are willing to go to.

[I have often thought that the best solution would be for the asset holder to write down the minimum they would accept, the would be purchaser to write down the maximum they would pay, and a disinterested third party to read both sealed quotes: if there is an overlap, the price is set as the midpoint and both know they have done better than they might have done, and if not both parties walk away knowing that their respective valuations do not coincide.]

 

[CyclistAbi]

Cian is 20 and is progressing quite well, with a long career in front of him. Why settle now in a multiyear contract where he could negotiate a bigger deal in the end of 2024 season with bigger results that would be naturally expected from a U23 rider who is progressing really well?

Jumbo would be the biggest gainers with this move, because they could have a rider with the future outlook of Uijtdebroeks for a fraction of what he could cost them a year from now.

Likely all parties involved got a bit greedy.

Visma desperately wants another GT prospect. Settling just with Jonas and the Tour is likely too little for them. With signing Remco they would likely attack Giro 2024 already. With Cian i don't know. Likely? That is on why van Aert is going in the first place? So for Visma i would say they still have a rather big appetite. From their golden days. We'll see if they can keep up with that!

Cian. He and his management likely want bigger salary. As from sports side of things the development at Bora was sound.

Bora. Well. If they will lose Cian. Than at least get some compensation for it. And maybe to turn that money into a hefty bonus for the Tour win. Like lets say Visma basically rewarding Rogla, financially, for winning the Tour.

We'll see.

 

[Berniece]

It is for the owner of an asset, and no-one else, to determine what price they want to charge for that asset. If a potential buyer is willing to meet that price, they can sell: if more than one potential buyer would be willing to pay that, they have undervalued it.

Sure the owner can decide what they want to ask for the asset, and like you said the market can decide that value too.

Currently Bora opens with 1M which is far from a constructive approach to the situation. Because in my opinion, that's way too much. They might land on 300-400K.

 

[Netserk]

If Bora were to hire Uijtdebroeks for just 1 year while he was a free agent, I think his market price would be close to 1M. Not only is the current contract worth the salary discrepancy, a compensation would have to cover the damage done by this move. They have made their other transfers with the knowledge that he would ride for them next year, and it's too late now to hire a substitute.