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Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

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Rackham

Rackham

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Berniece said:
Yeah that’s true, but it’s not only his mind. Jumbo also thinks he’s their rider.
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At one point just recently, Jumbo also thought Soudal Quick-Step & Evenepoel were going to be a part of their team as well. So I don't think they're best placed when it comes to a rational appraisal of separating dreams from reality.

Volderke said:
The context is that Cian complained about his (lack of) windtunnel testing before the Vuelta, and the offer to go to California to test in the windtunnel came after Cian already 'decided' to leave Bora. Maybe the lack of wind tunnel testing before the Vuelta, in combination with Vlasov competing for GC positions, was what made Cian wanting to move teams.

Cian said in the Vuelta he was pushing the better numbers, but probably Vlasov has a better TT position and thus got approx. 1:30 in the TT on Cian, time Cian needed to defend his GC spot (which he lost with 7s to Vlasov). I'm pretty sure Cian thought he could have easily got those 7s if only Bora committed a bit more on his aero testing before the Vuelta / beginning of the season. If that's diva behaviour I don't know, but Cian clearly 'felt' he was entitled to have more support (read: investment by the team). I do think that he would have been better off to just swallow his pride / ambitions one more year but that's too late now.

It would be pretty inconsistent to go to California knowing you want to leave the team, no?
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A 20 year old cyclist is never in a position to make such demands. It was his first GT, ever. He didn't even set the world on fire, did he? He has a lot to learn & improve on.

That shouldn't be a controversial viewpoint.
 
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joseph89

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Volderke said:
The context is that Cian complained about his (lack of) windtunnel testing before the Vuelta, and the offer to go to California to test in the windtunnel came after Cian already 'decided' to leave Bora. Maybe the lack of wind tunnel testing before the Vuelta, in combination with Vlasov competing for GC positions, was what made Cian wanting to move teams.

Cian said in the Vuelta he was pushing the better numbers, but probably Vlasov has a better TT position and thus got approx. 1:30 in the TT on Cian, time Cian needed to defend his GC spot (which he lost with 7s to Vlasov). I'm pretty sure Cian thought he could have easily got those 7s if only Bora committed a bit more on his aero testing before the Vuelta / beginning of the season. If that's diva behaviour I don't know, but Cian clearly 'felt' he was entitled to have more support (read: investment by the team). I do think that he would have been better off to just swallow his pride / ambitions one more year but that's too late now.

It would be pretty inconsistent to go to California knowing you want to leave the team, no?
Click to expand...
Actually he did windtunnel testing before the vuelta at the end of 2022 in California. How much windtunnel testing does he want.

He had the same amount of windtunnel testing as ilan van wilder and they both ride the same setup. So he can't blame it on the TT setup or windtunnel testing.
 
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yaco

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scribers said:
Obviously the best move is for bora to allow another team to buy his contract out and let him go for a reasonable fee. If they sit him while on the team it’s a bad look for the team itself. Cain sabotaging the team he’s on only sabotages himself

If another team isn’t willing to buy out the contract it says more about cian’s true value as an unproven talent.
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Daniel Benson in his report claims that other teams were happy to pay out Cian's contract, however, Jumbo did not have the money to buy out the contract, hence Cian claiming Bora has breached his contract.
 
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Berniece

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Rackham said:
At one point just recently, Jumbo also thought Soudal Quick-Step & Evenepoel were going to be a part of their team as well. So I don't think they're best placed when it comes to a rational appraisal of separating dreams from reality.
Click to expand...
Haha, that is also true. We’ll see what the UCI decides. But even if he has to stay at Bora, it’s going to be a weird season for him. What role is he going to get? The other riders probably don’t want to ride for him, staff won’t like him, he won’t be getting any extra’s.
 
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scribers

scribers

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Volderke said:
I wonder if Cian will try to argue that Bora wasn't committed (enough) to e.g. do windtunnel tests, and will try to use his mechanicals (like in Chrono des nations) to argue the team weren't doing their part of the contract.

I know this may sound silly, but I just can't imagine what else he could throw in legal fight.
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This is why I like hearing bruyneel speak about these matters as he understands the nature of contracts and often pinpoints the issues most journalists and guys like us barely scratch at.
 
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Aimar16

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Volderke said:
The context is that Cian complained about his (lack of) windtunnel testing before the Vuelta, and the offer to go to California to test in the windtunnel came after Cian already 'decided' to leave Bora. Maybe the lack of wind tunnel testing before the Vuelta, in combination with Vlasov competing for GC positions, was what made Cian wanting to move teams.

Cian said in the Vuelta he was pushing the better numbers, but probably Vlasov has a better TT position and thus got approx. 1:30 in the TT on Cian, time Cian needed to defend his GC spot (which he lost with 7s to Vlasov). I'm pretty sure Cian thought he could have easily got those 7s if only Bora committed a bit more on his aero testing before the Vuelta / beginning of the season. If that's diva behaviour I don't know, but Cian clearly 'felt' he was entitled to have more support (read: investment by the team). I do think that he would have been better off to just swallow his pride / ambitions one more year but that's too late now.

It would be pretty inconsistent to go to California knowing you want to leave the team, no?
Click to expand...

It is very strange behaviour to whine about 7th place, which literally has no value
 
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staubsauger

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Berniece said:
Haha, that is also true. We’ll see what the UCI decides. But even if he has to stay at Bora, it’s going to be a weird season for him. What role is he going to get? The other riders probably don’t want to ride for him, staff won’t like him, he won’t be getting any extra’s.
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Uijtdebroeks training in blank kit as Bora-Hansgrohe seek €1 million buyout

Chris Froome pictures Belgian on training ride
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So i guess Bora is willing to let Cian go for a compensation. Now i guess it's up to Visma to buy Cian out of his contract or to wait another year.

On a bit unrelated note. So Froome and his team was on a training ride and Cian caught them and rode right past them? Considering the salary Froome has i feel that Bora is making a reasonable request. A million or wait another year. It's up to Visma now.
 
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theyoungest

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Samu Cuenca said:
This approach sounds quite a lot like shop lifting. No wonder Jumbo wanted out.
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It's just a ridiculous amount, if his annual salary was really just above 100,000 euros, a million euro buyout for one year remaining of his contract is of course way too much. That won't hold up in any court, unless it explicity says so in the contract. Visma aren't as rich as people always assume they are, but even if they were they'd be crazy to pay one million just because Bora feel like blackmailing their rider.

Interestingly, Wielerflits also says that Bora didn't pay the buyout money for Roglic either, Roglic arranged that himself (maybe with the help of Red Bull, I don't know). That makes their current stance even more ridiculous.
 
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theyoungest said:
It's just a ridiculous amount, if his annual salary was really just above 100,000 euros, a million euro buyout for one year remaining of his contract is of course way too much. That won't hold up in any court, unless it explicity says so in the contract. Visma aren't as rich as people always assume they are, but even if they were they'd be crazy to pay one million just because Bora feel like blackmailing their rider.

Interestingly, Wielerflits also says that Bora didn't pay the buyout money for Roglic either, Roglic arranged that himself (maybe with the help of Red Bull, I don't know). That makes their current stance even more ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Idunno, this is an awful lot like football transfers where a player just basically throws a tantrum to make it so that their agent can force a transfer to who they want to go to. Making them more trouble than they're worth to their current employer so they can move them to the team that will give them more money. All too often we see a good player on a good team get interest from a Real Madrid or a Manchester City offering more money, and their current team says 'no' to the valuation, so the player starts sulking, causing trouble and being a huge distraction to the club until they cut bait and sell them just to be rid of the headache and focus on their game, and it seems like that's the transfer market Uitjebroeks is looking to for inspiration. Saying Bora are blackmailing the rider is kinda moot when the situation is an entirely avoidable one of the rider's making, and motivated out of pure greed.

It worked out fine for Iván Sosa and Lorena Wiebes, but in both of those instances the new contract had yet to come into force so it could be resolved, which is different from this case.
 
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Aimar16 said:
There were probably only 10 guys who raced to finish at the highest possible place in the GC. To finish seventh or eighth out of 10 is almost irrelevant.
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He didn't, he finished 5th. Second and third place quite demonstrably didn't race to finish at the highest possible place in the GC in that race, at least not after Twitter got upset at them.
 
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