Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[Pozzovivo]

On The Move Johan Bruyneel said he wasn't that suprised that Cian struggled to improve now. He said he's basically been super precise in training for many years and he specualted that maybe he had maxed out a lot of areas already.

Interessting comment imo. Maybe this will happen to a lot of young riders now. The relationship between age, level and future level may be less and less true. My mental model still see a lot of people bursting on the scene around 20-21-22 - then stagnate - then level up around 25-26-27 again - then stagnation.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Just like Ayuso, he is overrated as hell.

 

[Red Rick]

On The Move Johan Bruyneel said he wasn't that suprised that Cian struggled to improve now. He said he's basically been super precise in training for many years and he specualted that maybe he had maxed out a lot of areas already.

Interessting comment imo. Maybe this will happen to a lot of young riders now. The relationship between age, level and future level may be less and less true. My mental model still see a lot of people bursting on the scene around 20-21-22 - then stagnate - then level up around 25-26-27 again - then stagnation.

Red flag for me is he's been traditionally been really bad at fresh 10 minute climbs, which are close to VO2 max efforts, which should represent a pretty hard ceiling on how far you might max out.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Red flag for me is he's been traditionally been really bad at fresh 10 minute climbs, which are close to VO2 max efforts, which should represent a pretty hard ceiling on how far you might max out.

Let's say 10 years from now, do you think Cian has..

1. Won TDF?
2. Won a GT?
3. Podiumed a GT?
4. Top 5 GT?
5. Won a monument like liege or lombardy?
6. Top 10 more than 5 GT's

I'm interested to hear your opinion.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

On The Move Johan Bruyneel said he wasn't that suprised that Cian struggled to improve now. He said he's basically been super precise in training for many years and he specualted that maybe he had maxed out a lot of areas already.

Interessting comment imo. Maybe this will happen to a lot of young riders now. The relationship between age, level and future level may be less and less true. My mental model still see a lot of people bursting on the scene around 20-21-22 - then stagnate - then level up around 25-26-27 again - then stagnation.

He isn't struggling to improve. He is struggling to follow sprinters on a climb. What is this crap, lol.

 

[Samamba]

While I do think he's a bit overrated and I don't really like his fake nice persona, why are we ignoring him saying his legs literally feel numb. This kid could have a serious nerve problem or iliac artery problems and Visma just thinks it's fine to let him ride GTs? Overrated or not, this is obviously not his normal level. Let's not forget he started the Giro this in a decent way.

 

[Red Rick]

Let's say 10 years from now, do you think Cian has..

1. Won TDF?
2. Won a GT?
3. Podiumed a GT?
4. Top 5 GT?
5. Won a monument like liege or lombardy?
6. Top 10 more than 5 GT's

I'm interested to hear your opinion.

No
No
Probly no
Maybe
Lol no
Dunno who cares

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

No. I am obvisouly paraphrasing what Cian said and the implication is that he thought his equipment (specialized tt bikes) was not good enough. So no i'm not making stuff up.

His actual quotes:

Guess what... those aren't his actual quotes. You are quoting a journalist who (had) translated the actual quotes. So it is not you, but the journalist you quoted, that made stuff up. Bottom line, he never said that, which is what i was coming from. His entire rant was clearly directed at Bora, and the part about the bike, he even specifically mentions Evenepoel and his low CdA. He never said anything about the frame of the bike, he spoke of "building the bike" by which, from the context, he clearly meant assembling the bike by the Bora mechanics.

 

[Pozzovivo]

He isn't struggling to improve. He is struggling to follow sprinters on a climb. What is this crap, lol.

Because he is clearly not on his normal level this vuelta for whatever reason. In general he's been good but not better than last year.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Because he is clearly not on his normal level this vuelta for whatever reason. In general he's been good but not better than last year.

He said he's had this feeling a few times before. I suggest Visma actually look into this and people wait a bit before jumping to conclusions based on conditions they know nothing about. If this is an ongoing issue since some time, it could well explain a few things this year.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Guess what... those aren't his actual quotes. You are quoting a journalist who (had) translated the actual quotes. So it is not you, but the journalist you quoted, that made stuff up. Bottom line, he never said that, which is what i was coming from. His entire rant was clearly directed at Bora, and the part about the bike, he even specifically mentions Evenepoel and his low CdA. He never said anything about the frame of the bike, he spoke of "building the bike" by which, from the context, he clearly meant assembling the bike by the Bora mechanics.

So I'm directly quoting the news article that directly quotes Cian. They even use Cian said: "......"

If you are right - How am I supposed to know that the journo just make things up? How do you know that the Journo directly made this up? That is actually punishable if journo's present direct quotes in a fake manner never mind making things up. I wasn't there and I hedged against this in my first comment by saying that people misquote. This seems legit and Aldag never denied that he made those statements - which would be in his and the teams interest.

 

[Peyroteo94]

He has not been in his normal level since all year. Stop with this BS, this is his level. He is probably in the best team in the world and still can't deliver? C'mon, he is not good enough, maybe in the future (I really doubt it) but right now? He is not good enough

 

[Pozzovivo]

He has not been in his normal level since all year. Stop with this BS, this is his level. He is probably in the best team in the world and still can't deliver? C'mon, he is not good enough, maybe in the future (I really doubt it) but right now? He is not good enough

I agree that he is not good right now and that he may turn very good in the future. In tirreno he was good. In Giro he was good until he got covid. He's been decent.

 

[Samamba]

He has not been in his normal level since all year. Stop with this BS, this is his level. He is probably in the best team in the world and still can't deliver? C'mon, he is not good enough, maybe in the future (I really doubt it) but right now? He is not good enough

Was literally in 5th position on GC in the Giro before he got Covid.
Also was 7th in Tirreno.

Acting like his normal level is getting dropped by sprintertypes is just dumb, and straight up hating. Or you're just trolling, which probably is it.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Was literally in 5th position on GC in the Giro before he got Covid.
Also was 7th in Tirreno.

Acting like his normal level is getting dropped by sprintertypes is just dumb, and straight up hating. Or you're just trolling, which probably is it.

I am not trolling. He just isn't good enough to top5 this Vuelta and other GT's. Of course he is better than this but his best level is not good enough to top5 a GT. There is always a new excuse for his bad performances, heat, covid, his bike, all this crap. What about him not being good enough yet?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So I'm directly quoting the news article that directly quotes Cian. They even use Cian said: "......"

Clearly not. You are quoting an article based on a false translation of a direct quote. Whether the translation is lacking due to ineptitude, clickbait or other motives, i don't know. But what you quoted was not what he said, and even less what he meant.

I'm pretty sure Aldag didn't read the Dutch article either, so his actions thereafter prove nothing either way.

 

[Samamba]

I am not trolling. He just isn't good enough to top5 this Vuelta and other GT's. Of course he is better than this but his best level is not good enough to top5 a GT. There is always a new excuse for his bad performances, heat, covid, his bike, all this crap. What about him not being good enough yet?

There's a difference between saying "I don't think he's good enough to top 5 a stacked GT" (which is your opinion, and a respectable one) and saying "this is his normal level" when he's losing 10 minutes on a 4km climb. Saying this has been his level all year is also just factually untrue given - like I said - he was 5th on GC in the Giro before he got Covid and was 7th in Tirreno.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I am not trolling. He just isn't good enough to top5 this Vuelta and other GT's. Of course he is better than this but his best level is not good enough to top5 a GT. There is always a new excuse for his bad performances, heat, covid, his bike, all this crap. What about him not being good enough yet?

He finished the Vuelta last year, which had Roglic and Vingegaard at the start, in 8th position, which would have been 7th in case his teammate didn't attack him, at the age of 21 in his first GT. And you have already made the assessment that he is not good enough to finish any GT in the top 5.

I'm getting Evenepoel Giro '21 vibes here. That was also proof that he wasn't and never would be a GT rider.

 

[Gratemans]

Look, I get that its really tempting to pile on and bash Cian. I actually think he's a pretty big Richard as well. Wether those quotes are accurate or not, fact is he's been bashing his former team which is just extremely unprofessional and dumb. You put a lot of unnecessary extra pressure on yourself this way too.
But otherwise I gotta agree with Logic here. It's very obvious this is not his level, and something is really wrong. It really fits the picture of an iliac artery imo.

 

[Netserk]

Look, I get that its really tempting to pile on and bash Cian.

More than tempting. It is right. It is just.

 

[Keldergoat]

Apart from the discussion whether or not he is being over- or underrated, isn't he most of all, also not a bit overdiscussed? Yes, I know I contribute to that by posting in this thread, but 70 pages for a dude with maybe only a couple of pro wins (?) and one GC top-10, damn. If you compare that to how much discussion guys like for instnace Milan, Hirschi or Kooij get I feel like we should give this guy a break until he is performing at a respectable level again.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Apart from the discussion whether or not he is being over- or underrated, isn't he most of all, also not a bit overdiscussed? Yes, I know I contribute to that by posting in this thread, but 70 pages for a dude with maybe only a couple of pro wins (?) and one GC top-10, damn. If you compare that to how much discussion guys like for instnace Milan, Hirschi or Kooij get I feel like we should give this guy a break until he is performing at a respectable level again.

GC talent is so much fun to discuss. And Cian has zero wins - i'm guessing you know that and are just baiting me.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Apart from the discussion whether or not he is being over- or underrated, isn't he most of all, also not a bit overdiscussed? Yes, I know I contribute to that by posting in this thread, but 70 pages for a dude with maybe only a couple of pro wins (?) and one GC top-10, damn. If you compare that to how much discussion guys like for instnace Milan, Hirschi or Kooij get I feel like we should give this guy a break until he is performing at a respectable level again.

Lipowitz is worthy of a lot more discussion than Cian.

 

[Red Rick]

Apart from the discussion whether or not he is being over- or underrated, isn't he most of all, also not a bit overdiscussed? Yes, I know I contribute to that by posting in this thread, but 70 pages for a dude with maybe only a couple of pro wins (?) and one GC top-10, damn. If you compare that to how much discussion guys like for instnace Milan, Hirschi or Kooij get I feel like we should give this guy a break until he is performing at a respectable level again.

All you need is a positive feedback loop between a rider, the media, a few fans and a few not-so-much-fans that get annoyed by the media.

The #1 determinant for a rider thread size is if fans and haters keep arguing.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Lipowitz is worthy of a lot more discussion than Cian.

Honestly, Lipowitz is already discussed across almost every thread this Vuelta, especially when he does absolutely nothing or is out of position. He was frankly overdiscussed sometimes and his thread is also not the smallest for a Romandie podium finisher with not much else on his palmares. Also, good and worthy of discussion are not the same. Some riders are good but boring, others have interesting up-and-down careers that never amount to anything great.