Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[Peyroteo94]

He has not been in his normal level since all year. Stop with this BS, this is his level. He is probably in the best team in the world and still can't deliver? C'mon, he is not good enough, maybe in the future (I really doubt it) but right now? He is not good enough

 

[Pozzovivo]

He has not been in his normal level since all year. Stop with this BS, this is his level. He is probably in the best team in the world and still can't deliver? C'mon, he is not good enough, maybe in the future (I really doubt it) but right now? He is not good enough

I agree that he is not good right now and that he may turn very good in the future. In tirreno he was good. In Giro he was good until he got covid. He's been decent.

 

[Samamba]

He has not been in his normal level since all year. Stop with this BS, this is his level. He is probably in the best team in the world and still can't deliver? C'mon, he is not good enough, maybe in the future (I really doubt it) but right now? He is not good enough

Was literally in 5th position on GC in the Giro before he got Covid.
Also was 7th in Tirreno.

Acting like his normal level is getting dropped by sprintertypes is just dumb, and straight up hating. Or you're just trolling, which probably is it.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Was literally in 5th position on GC in the Giro before he got Covid.
Also was 7th in Tirreno.

Acting like his normal level is getting dropped by sprintertypes is just dumb, and straight up hating. Or you're just trolling, which probably is it.

I am not trolling. He just isn't good enough to top5 this Vuelta and other GT's. Of course he is better than this but his best level is not good enough to top5 a GT. There is always a new excuse for his bad performances, heat, covid, his bike, all this crap. What about him not being good enough yet?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So I'm directly quoting the news article that directly quotes Cian. They even use Cian said: "......"

Clearly not. You are quoting an article based on a false translation of a direct quote. Whether the translation is lacking due to ineptitude, clickbait or other motives, i don't know. But what you quoted was not what he said, and even less what he meant.

I'm pretty sure Aldag didn't read the Dutch article either, so his actions thereafter prove nothing either way.

 

[Samamba]

I am not trolling. He just isn't good enough to top5 this Vuelta and other GT's. Of course he is better than this but his best level is not good enough to top5 a GT. There is always a new excuse for his bad performances, heat, covid, his bike, all this crap. What about him not being good enough yet?

There's a difference between saying "I don't think he's good enough to top 5 a stacked GT" (which is your opinion, and a respectable one) and saying "this is his normal level" when he's losing 10 minutes on a 4km climb. Saying this has been his level all year is also just factually untrue given - like I said - he was 5th on GC in the Giro before he got Covid and was 7th in Tirreno.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I am not trolling. He just isn't good enough to top5 this Vuelta and other GT's. Of course he is better than this but his best level is not good enough to top5 a GT. There is always a new excuse for his bad performances, heat, covid, his bike, all this crap. What about him not being good enough yet?

He finished the Vuelta last year, which had Roglic and Vingegaard at the start, in 8th position, which would have been 7th in case his teammate didn't attack him, at the age of 21 in his first GT. And you have already made the assessment that he is not good enough to finish any GT in the top 5.

I'm getting Evenepoel Giro '21 vibes here. That was also proof that he wasn't and never would be a GT rider.

 

[Gratemans]

Look, I get that its really tempting to pile on and bash Cian. I actually think he's a pretty big Richard as well. Wether those quotes are accurate or not, fact is he's been bashing his former team which is just extremely unprofessional and dumb. You put a lot of unnecessary extra pressure on yourself this way too.
But otherwise I gotta agree with Logic here. It's very obvious this is not his level, and something is really wrong. It really fits the picture of an iliac artery imo.

 

[Netserk]

Look, I get that its really tempting to pile on and bash Cian.

More than tempting. It is right. It is just.

 

[Keldergoat]

Apart from the discussion whether or not he is being over- or underrated, isn't he most of all, also not a bit overdiscussed? Yes, I know I contribute to that by posting in this thread, but 70 pages for a dude with maybe only a couple of pro wins (?) and one GC top-10, damn. If you compare that to how much discussion guys like for instnace Milan, Hirschi or Kooij get I feel like we should give this guy a break until he is performing at a respectable level again.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Apart from the discussion whether or not he is being over- or underrated, isn't he most of all, also not a bit overdiscussed? Yes, I know I contribute to that by posting in this thread, but 70 pages for a dude with maybe only a couple of pro wins (?) and one GC top-10, damn. If you compare that to how much discussion guys like for instnace Milan, Hirschi or Kooij get I feel like we should give this guy a break until he is performing at a respectable level again.

GC talent is so much fun to discuss. And Cian has zero wins - i'm guessing you know that and are just baiting me.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Apart from the discussion whether or not he is being over- or underrated, isn't he most of all, also not a bit overdiscussed? Yes, I know I contribute to that by posting in this thread, but 70 pages for a dude with maybe only a couple of pro wins (?) and one GC top-10, damn. If you compare that to how much discussion guys like for instnace Milan, Hirschi or Kooij get I feel like we should give this guy a break until he is performing at a respectable level again.

Lipowitz is worthy of a lot more discussion than Cian.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Lipowitz is worthy of a lot more discussion than Cian.

Honestly, Lipowitz is already discussed across almost every thread this Vuelta, especially when he does absolutely nothing or is out of position. He was frankly overdiscussed sometimes and his thread is also not the smallest for a Romandie podium finisher with not much else on his palmares. Also, good and worthy of discussion are not the same. Some riders are good but boring, others have interesting up-and-down careers that never amount to anything great.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Who will have the best TDF GC result in the next 10 years?

Lipowitz, Cian, Tobias Halland Johannessen, Foss, or Blackmore?

I think THJ will clean them up eventually. Lipowitz number two.

 

[Netserk]

All you need is a positive feedback loop between a rider, the media, a few fans and a few not-so-much-fans that get annoyed by the media.

The #1 determinant for a rider thread size is if fans and haters keep arguing.

Haters without fans gets you Moscon. Little activity.
Fans without haters gets you Nibali. More activity.

I think by far the majority of the Contador thread's activity was dedicated fans.

So I think #1 determinant is dedicated fans, #2 determinant is how good a stage racer the rider is (EDIT: Or the other way around). Classics riders generally receive less attention, and Van der Poel has more pages than Van Aert, so haters can't be that important.

Addendum:

1. Contador 51K
2. Evenepoel 28K
3. Froome 21K
4. Pogi 19K
5. Nibali 19K
6. Rogla 18K
7. Quintana 10K
8. Valverde 9K
9. Van der Poel 7K
10. Armstrong 7K
11. Vingegaard 7K
12. Schleck 7K
13. Wiggins 6K
14. Sagan 6K
15. Van Aert 5K
16. Dumoulin 5K
17. Cavendish 4K
18. Porte 4K
19. Pinot 4K
20. Landa 4K
21. Bernal 3K
22. Betancur 3K
23. Almeida 2K
24. 2x Yates 2K
25. Alaphilippe 2K

 

[Netserk]

I am mainly talking about otherwise bland riders.

If you restrict the range for success, it will be a less important factor. Fans correlate more with success than haters do, I think.

Given the list I posted above, I generally think stage race success and promise is most important, then fans. Quintana doesn't get more posts than Valverde if haters play much of a role.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Who will have the best TDF GC result in the next 10 years?

Lipowitz, Cian, Tobias Halland Johannessen, Foss, or Blackmore?

I think THJ will clean them up eventually. Lipowitz number two.

Don't know a lot about THJ but he is a couple of years older than Lipowitz and has been racing a little bit longer too. I don't really see that he has more upside.

 

[AmRacer]

Haters without fans gets you Moscon. Little activity.
Fans without haters gets you Nibali. More activity.

I think by far the majority of the Contador thread's activity was dedicated fans.

So I think #1 determinant is dedicated fans, #2 determinant is how good a stage racer the rider is (EDIT: Or the other way around). Classics riders generally receive less attention, and Van der Poel has more pages than Van Aert, so haters can't be that important.

Addendum:

1. Contador 51K
2. Evenepoel 28K
3. Froome 21K
4. Pogi 19K
5. Nibali 19K
6. Rogla 18K
7. Quintana 10K
8. Valverde 9K
9. Van der Poel 7K
10. Armstrong 7K
11. Vingegaard 7K
12. Schleck 7K
13. Wiggins 6K
14. Sagan 6K
15. Van Aert 5K
16. Dumoulin 5K
17. Cavendish 4K
18. Porte 4K
19. Pinot 4K
20. Landa 4K
21. Bernal 3K
22. Betancur 3K
23. Almeida 2K
24. 2x Yates 2K
25. Alaphilippe 2K

Evenepoel has 20k pages discussing his weight.

 

[stekelegel]

Pogacar and Vingegard have a decent amount of pages discussing Remco stuff.
Evenepoel has the lovers, the haters. The huge promise, good results, bad results. The little controversies. Patrick Lefevere. The Visma - Quick step merger that collapsed. Perfect forum bait.

And do not forget the Belgian aspect. Everytime a young Belgian rider manages to master some gentle slopes and get a top 10 classification the nation holds his breath and the new Merckx / next TDF winner question has to be discussed in all the cycling and sport news panels, shows, sites, papers, .... His teamleader, teammates, coach, trainer, parents, uncles, nieces, girlfriends former and current, kindergarten teacher, and dog will be asked to voice their opinion. Goold old Lucien Van Impe will be hauled from storage, given a new coat of varnish and be asked the question. What does Sir Eddy think himself? And Roger De Vlaeminck will tell everybody that this new talent (or any of the current generation) is nowhere near his level and will never be.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Don't know a lot about THJ but he is a couple of years older than Lipowitz and has been racing a little bit longer too. I don't really see that he has more upside.

I can promise you that he has. Been held back my injuries etc for 3 years in the winter. He will kill. Enormous potential.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Pogacar and Vingegard have a decent amount of pages discussing Remco stuff.
Evenepoel has the lovers, the haters. The huge promise, good results, bad results. The little controversies. Patrick Lefevere. The Visma - Quick step merger that collapsed. Perfect forum bait.

And do not forget the Belgian aspect. Everytime a young Belgian rider manages to master some gentle slopes and get a top 10 classification the nation holds his breath and the new Merckx / next TDF winner question has to be discussed in all the cycling and sport news panels, shows, sites, papers, .... His teamleader, teammates, coach, trainer, parents, uncles, nieces, girlfriends former and current, kindergarten teacher, and dog will be asked to voice their opinion. Goold old Lucien Van Impe will be hauled from storage, given a new coat of varnish and be asked the question. What does Sir Eddy think himself? And Roger De Vlaeminck will tell everybody that this new talent (or any of the current generation) is nowhere near his level and will never be.

Yes, like the famous Belgians, Wilco Kelderman, Edvald Boasson Hagen, Yaroslav Popovich etc...

It's a mix between funny and appaling, probably best defined as "cringe", when people bring up this BS that has started to manifest in their own brains. Was De Plus heralded as the next Merckx? No. Was Van Den Broeck? Nope. Lambrecht? Van Eetvelt? Van Wilder? Even Uijtdebroeks? No they weren't. Only Evenepoel was, and the man that lit that fire... was Merckx. Then there was the teammanager of Uijtdebroeks who needed to compare his new pupil to Evenepoel. Just like the teammanager of that other famous Belgian junior, Andrew August.

Evenepoel has 20k pages discussing his weight.

Evenepoel has many thousands of pages discussing things not even remotely related to Evenepoel.

 

[danielovichdk2]

Did Remco marry Cian or wtf happened here ? Get a room somewhere else. Please.

 

[danielovichdk2]

I am not trolling. He just isn't good enough to top5 this Vuelta and other GT's. Of course he is better than this but his best level is not good enough to top5 a GT. There is always a new excuse for his bad performances, heat, covid, his bike, all this crap. What about him not being good enough yet?

Maybe. Maybe not. The thing is that the kid is 21 and chances are that you will have to eat your sombrero when he actually gets in top 5 of a GT. I know where money is put.

 

[carolina]

Maybe he also has covid.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Maybe he also has covid.

He's been quite specific about his sensations, and while he could "also" have covid, it doesn't sound like that is the reason why he has been underperforming.

I can promise you that he has. Been held back my injuries etc for 3 years in the winter. He will kill. Enormous potential.

That honestly sounds like reaching. Johannessen (barely) won Avenir the day before turning 22 as a 4th year U23. He is older than Evenepoel, in case people forgot. While i think he has more climbing potential than Foss, i haven't seen anything to suggest he will be better than Uijtdebroeks (who was a 1st year U23 when he won Avenir). At least as a GT GC rider.

Comparing him to Foss and Blackmore makes sense, given their age when they won Avenir.