Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[Pozzovivo]

Who will have the best TDF GC result in the next 10 years?

Lipowitz, Cian, Tobias Halland Johannessen, Foss, or Blackmore?

I think THJ will clean them up eventually. Lipowitz number two.

 

[Netserk]

All you need is a positive feedback loop between a rider, the media, a few fans and a few not-so-much-fans that get annoyed by the media.

The #1 determinant for a rider thread size is if fans and haters keep arguing.

Haters without fans gets you Moscon. Little activity.
Fans without haters gets you Nibali. More activity.

I think by far the majority of the Contador thread's activity was dedicated fans.

So I think #1 determinant is dedicated fans, #2 determinant is how good a stage racer the rider is (EDIT: Or the other way around). Classics riders generally receive less attention, and Van der Poel has more pages than Van Aert, so haters can't be that important.

Addendum:

1. Contador 51K
2. Evenepoel 28K
3. Froome 21K
4. Pogi 19K
5. Nibali 19K
6. Rogla 18K
7. Quintana 10K
8. Valverde 9K
9. Van der Poel 7K
10. Armstrong 7K
11. Vingegaard 7K
12. Schleck 7K
13. Wiggins 6K
14. Sagan 6K
15. Van Aert 5K
16. Dumoulin 5K
17. Cavendish 4K
18. Porte 4K
19. Pinot 4K
20. Landa 4K
21. Bernal 3K
22. Betancur 3K
23. Almeida 2K
24. 2x Yates 2K
25. Alaphilippe 2K

 

[Red Rick]

Haters without fans gets you Moscon. Little activity.
Fans without haters gets you Nibali. More activity.

I think by far the majority of the Contador thread's activity was dedicated fans.

I am mainly talking about otherwise bland riders.

 

[Netserk]

I am mainly talking about otherwise bland riders.

If you restrict the range for success, it will be a less important factor. Fans correlate more with success than haters do, I think.

Given the list I posted above, I generally think stage race success and promise is most important, then fans. Quintana doesn't get more posts than Valverde if haters play much of a role.

 

[Red Rick]

If you restrict the range for success, it will be a less important factor. Fans correlate more with success than haters do, I think.

Given the list I posted above, I generally think stage race success and promise is most important, then fans. Quintana doesn't get more posts than Valverde if haters play much of a role.

Maybe I'm overextrapolating from a few instances, but I definitely think it applies heavily to Evenepoel, and it does apply to Blobloblo as well.

You just need a few posters to bother with posting consistently, and many a good rider doesn't really have that consistently. And the stage race bias is real. Pretty sure I remember not even being able to find a Boonen thread at some point.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Who will have the best TDF GC result in the next 10 years?

Lipowitz, Cian, Tobias Halland Johannessen, Foss, or Blackmore?

I think THJ will clean them up eventually. Lipowitz number two.

Don't know a lot about THJ but he is a couple of years older than Lipowitz and has been racing a little bit longer too. I don't really see that he has more upside.

 

[AmRacer]

Haters without fans gets you Moscon. Little activity.
Fans without haters gets you Nibali. More activity.

I think by far the majority of the Contador thread's activity was dedicated fans.

So I think #1 determinant is dedicated fans, #2 determinant is how good a stage racer the rider is (EDIT: Or the other way around). Classics riders generally receive less attention, and Van der Poel has more pages than Van Aert, so haters can't be that important.

Addendum:

1. Contador 51K
2. Evenepoel 28K
3. Froome 21K
4. Pogi 19K
5. Nibali 19K
6. Rogla 18K
7. Quintana 10K
8. Valverde 9K
9. Van der Poel 7K
10. Armstrong 7K
11. Vingegaard 7K
12. Schleck 7K
13. Wiggins 6K
14. Sagan 6K
15. Van Aert 5K
16. Dumoulin 5K
17. Cavendish 4K
18. Porte 4K
19. Pinot 4K
20. Landa 4K
21. Bernal 3K
22. Betancur 3K
23. Almeida 2K
24. 2x Yates 2K
25. Alaphilippe 2K

Evenepoel has 20k pages discussing his weight.

 

[stekelegel]

Pogacar and Vingegard have a decent amount of pages discussing Remco stuff.
Evenepoel has the lovers, the haters. The huge promise, good results, bad results. The little controversies. Patrick Lefevere. The Visma - Quick step merger that collapsed. Perfect forum bait.

And do not forget the Belgian aspect. Everytime a young Belgian rider manages to master some gentle slopes and get a top 10 classification the nation holds his breath and the new Merckx / next TDF winner question has to be discussed in all the cycling and sport news panels, shows, sites, papers, .... His teamleader, teammates, coach, trainer, parents, uncles, nieces, girlfriends former and current, kindergarten teacher, and dog will be asked to voice their opinion. Goold old Lucien Van Impe will be hauled from storage, given a new coat of varnish and be asked the question. What does Sir Eddy think himself? And Roger De Vlaeminck will tell everybody that this new talent (or any of the current generation) is nowhere near his level and will never be.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Don't know a lot about THJ but he is a couple of years older than Lipowitz and has been racing a little bit longer too. I don't really see that he has more upside.

I can promise you that he has. Been held back my injuries etc for 3 years in the winter. He will kill. Enormous potential.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Pogacar and Vingegard have a decent amount of pages discussing Remco stuff.
Evenepoel has the lovers, the haters. The huge promise, good results, bad results. The little controversies. Patrick Lefevere. The Visma - Quick step merger that collapsed. Perfect forum bait.

And do not forget the Belgian aspect. Everytime a young Belgian rider manages to master some gentle slopes and get a top 10 classification the nation holds his breath and the new Merckx / next TDF winner question has to be discussed in all the cycling and sport news panels, shows, sites, papers, .... His teamleader, teammates, coach, trainer, parents, uncles, nieces, girlfriends former and current, kindergarten teacher, and dog will be asked to voice their opinion. Goold old Lucien Van Impe will be hauled from storage, given a new coat of varnish and be asked the question. What does Sir Eddy think himself? And Roger De Vlaeminck will tell everybody that this new talent (or any of the current generation) is nowhere near his level and will never be.

Yes, like the famous Belgians, Wilco Kelderman, Edvald Boasson Hagen, Yaroslav Popovich etc...

It's a mix between funny and appaling, probably best defined as "cringe", when people bring up this BS that has started to manifest in their own brains. Was De Plus heralded as the next Merckx? No. Was Van Den Broeck? Nope. Lambrecht? Van Eetvelt? Van Wilder? Even Uijtdebroeks? No they weren't. Only Evenepoel was, and the man that lit that fire... was Merckx. Then there was the teammanager of Uijtdebroeks who needed to compare his new pupil to Evenepoel. Just like the teammanager of that other famous Belgian junior, Andrew August.

Evenepoel has 20k pages discussing his weight.

Evenepoel has many thousands of pages discussing things not even remotely related to Evenepoel.

 

[danielovichdk2]

Did Remco marry Cian or wtf happened here ? Get a room somewhere else. Please.

 

[danielovichdk2]

I am not trolling. He just isn't good enough to top5 this Vuelta and other GT's. Of course he is better than this but his best level is not good enough to top5 a GT. There is always a new excuse for his bad performances, heat, covid, his bike, all this crap. What about him not being good enough yet?

Maybe. Maybe not. The thing is that the kid is 21 and chances are that you will have to eat your sombrero when he actually gets in top 5 of a GT. I know where money is put.

 

[carolina]

Maybe he also has covid.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Maybe he also has covid.

He's been quite specific about his sensations, and while he could "also" have covid, it doesn't sound like that is the reason why he has been underperforming.

I can promise you that he has. Been held back my injuries etc for 3 years in the winter. He will kill. Enormous potential.

That honestly sounds like reaching. Johannessen (barely) won Avenir the day before turning 22 as a 4th year U23. He is older than Evenepoel, in case people forgot. While i think he has more climbing potential than Foss, i haven't seen anything to suggest he will be better than Uijtdebroeks (who was a 1st year U23 when he won Avenir). At least as a GT GC rider.

Comparing him to Foss and Blackmore makes sense, given their age when they won Avenir.

 

[AmRacer]

Yes, like the famous Belgians, Wilco Kelderman, Edvald Boasson Hagen, Yaroslav Popovich etc...

It's a mix between funny and appaling, probably best defined as "cringe", when people bring up this BS that has started to manifest in their own brains. Was De Plus heralded as the next Merckx? No. Was Van Den Broeck? Nope. Lambrecht? Van Eetvelt? Van Wilder? Even Uijtdebroeks? No they weren't. Only Evenepoel was, and the man that lit that fire... was Merckx. Then there was the teammanager of Uijtdebroeks who needed to compare his new pupil to Evenepoel. Just like the teammanager of that other famous Belgian junior, Andrew August.


Evenepoel has many thousands of pages discussing things not even remotely related to Evenepoel.

20k pages regarding his weight and many thousands discussing other not Remco related stuff.
That makes a couple of hundred pages left discussing his career.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

20k pages regarding his wright and many thousands discussing other not Remco related stuff.
That makes a couple of hundred pages left discussing his career.

Let's not forget all the pages with fools asking whether he could beat Mathieu at Amstel or Liège.

 

[AmRacer]

Let's not forget all the pages with fools asking whether he could beat Mathieu at Amstel or Liège.

When I have trouble to sleep, I read a random page where his weight is scrutinized. Any one of the 20k is good enough.

 

[Pozzovivo]

He's been quite specific about his sensations, and while he could "also" have covid, it doesn't sound like that is the reason why he has been underperforming.


That honestly sounds like reaching. Johannessen (barely) won Avenir the day before turning 22 as a 4th year U23. He is older than Evenepoel, in case people forgot. While i think he has more climbing potential than Foss, i haven't seen anything to suggest he will be better than Uijtdebroeks (who was a 1st year U23 when he won Avenir). At least as a GT GC rider.

Comparing him to Foss and Blackmore makes sense, given their age when they won Avenir.

On the surface, THJ might not seem like an extraordinary rider—unless you're familiar with his career so far. But here's what I know about his situation:

1. THJ had only been racing for three years before winning L'Avenir, and during that time, he was mostly just mountain biking on weekends with minimal training, according to the data.
2. Over the last three years, he faced significant challenges: a severe knee injury kept him out during two winters, and in the third year, he was sidelined by COVID and other illnesses.
3. This year, he showed incredible form, dominating riders like Lenny Martinez, Woods, and Gaudu at a race in "Var" (I can’t recall the exact name). Unfortunately, a tactical mistake cost him in the final, and then he injured himself, missing the rest of the season until the Ardennes, where he was decent. However, he suffered another knee injury before the Tour and didn’t ride at all during Uno-X's altitude camp. Despite this, after just three weeks of training, he was competitive in Slovenia and performed strongly in the Tour.
4. His brother, also a huge talent, hasn’t been performing due to heart surgery after 2021.
5. During this year’s Tour, THJ was as good as, if not better than, riders like Hindley, Mas, and De Plus on stage 15. He might have even been better than Carapaz, but Simon Yates created a gap before the penultimate climb. THJ closed a one-minute gap to grand tour winners and matched their strength on Plateau de Beille. It was incredible.
6. You could see similar performances last year, particularly on stage 17 up Col de la Loze, and again on stage 20. Despite spending so much energy trying to get into the breakaway, he still managed to keep pace with the GC contenders, finishing 9th in the GC group.
7. He has an insane sprint for GC guy- Pogacar level.
8. He can't time trial. Only drawback so far.

He is a mix of Alaphilippe and Adam yates. Magical beast.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

On the surface, THJ might not seem like an extraordinary rider—unless you're familiar with his career so far. But here's what I know about his situation:

1. THJ had only been racing for three years before winning L'Avenir, and during that time, he was mostly just mountain biking on weekends with minimal training, according to the data.
2. Over the last three years, he faced significant challenges: a severe knee injury kept him out during two winters, and in the third year, he was sidelined by COVID and other illnesses.
3. This year, he showed incredible form, dominating riders like Lenny Martinez, Woods, and Gaudu at a race in "Var" (I can’t recall the exact name). Unfortunately, a tactical mistake cost him in the final, and then he injured himself, missing the rest of the season until the Ardennes, where he was decent. However, he suffered another knee injury before the Tour and didn’t ride at all during Uno-X's altitude camp. Despite this, after just three weeks of training, he was competitive in Slovenia and performed strongly in the Tour.
4. His brother, also a huge talent, hasn’t been performing due to heart surgery after 2021.
5. During this year’s Tour, THJ was as good as, if not better than, riders like Hindley, Mas, and De Plus on stage 15. He might have even been better than Carapaz, but Simon Yates created a gap before the penultimate climb. THJ closed a one-minute gap to grand tour winners and matched their strength on Plateau de Beille. It was incredible.
6. You could see similar performances last year, particularly on stage 17 up Col de la Loze, and again on stage 20. Despite spending so much energy trying to get into the breakaway, he still managed to keep pace with the GC contenders, finishing 9th in the GC group.
7. He has an insane sprint for GC guy- Pogacar level.
8. He can't time trial. Only drawback so far.

He is a mix of Alaphilippe and Adam yates. Magical beast.

I know who he is, and there are other riders with similar stories, including some of the top riders like Roglic, Evenepoel and Vingegaard, who were cleaning fish, skijumping or footballing before crashing themselves into the WT with plenty of injuries slowing them down.

He was better than some riders in one stage of the TDF? Impressive. Ignoring that those riders were either far below their level or had been working for a GC leader, unlike THJ.

His sprint is far from Pogacar level. He got beaten twice by Evenepoel in Norway '22.

 

[Pozzovivo]

I know who he is, and there are other riders with similar stories, including some of the top riders like Roglic, Evenepoel and Vingegaard, who were cleaning fish, skijumping or footballing before crashing themselves into the WT with plenty of injuries slowing them down.

He was better than some riders in one stage of the TDF? Impressive. Ignoring that those riders were either far below their level or had been working for a GC leader, unlike THJ.

His sprint is far from Pogacar level. He got beaten twice by Evenepoel in Norway '22.

I guess you just have to wait and see. And he wasn't better than some riders on one day - he was clearly stronger than GC GT winners even with bad prep before tour and bad luck in the stages. He was third behind Pog and Jonas on stage 6 last year.

Evenepoel is an elite sprinter in a GC group. Killed Roglic several times.

I bet you THJ kills Cian for GC results in GT and one-weeks the next 5 years! You wanna take the bet?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I guess you just have to wait and see. And he wasn't better than some riders on one day - he was clearly stronger than GC GT winners even with bad prep before tour and bad luck in the stages. He was third behind Pog and Jonas on stage 6 last year.

Evenepoel is an elite sprinter in a GC group. Killed Roglic several times.

I bet you THJ kills Cian for GC results in GT and one-weeks the next 5 years! You wanna take the bet?

Evenepoel did beat Roglic a few times, but less than the other way around. And neither are at Pogs level.

Uijtdebroeks can't sprint or TT to save his life, so beating him in a 1 week GC shouldn't be that difficult. Beating him in a GT should prove less evident for someone like THJ.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Evenepoel did beat Roglic a few times, but less than the other way around. And neither are at Pogs level.

Uijtdebroeks can't sprint or TT to save his life, so beating him in a 1 week GC shouldn't be that difficult. Beating him in a GT should prove less evident for someone like THJ.

Cian's TT performances are better than THJ so far no? Visma setup faster than Uno-x for sure. The giro one was good. Vuleta was ok.

But having a somewhat balanced score against Roglic actually means you are elite at sprinting for a GC guy. Maybe not Pog level but we've seen little evidence of these guys sprinting each other.

Who will have the best TDF GC result the next 5 years - I take THJ you take Cian - are you taking the bet?

Unfortunately Un-X don't compete in giro or vuelta so far so we can just bet on all GT GC's.

 

[saunaking]

Uijtdebroeks says his heartrate and lungcapacity aren't maxed out at all, but his legs just feel numb and he can't push any harder.

lol sounds like every chugger I know who runs a 4 hour marathon

 

[Pozzovivo]

lol sounds like every chugger I know who runs a 4 hour marathon

No shame in a 4h marathon. Maxed me out for sure!

 

[Berniece]

lol sounds like every chugger I know who runs a 4 hour marathon

Yeah Uijtdebroeks is just like your mates running a 4h marathon