Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[Berniece]

I pointed out that Netserk wanted his GC bid to fail. That's literally in the post you're quoting. Netserk didn't wish illness or physical injury on him, just for his ego to take a dent.

Stop cherry-picking just so that you can take offence on behalf of a man (not a boy) who is old enough to handle his own problems.

Just because you feel he should be molly-coddled and given special treatment for being the prettiest princess where nobody is allowed to say anything mean in case he gets the sads doesn't mean it's wrong for somebody to disagree.

Yeah mate, that's what I said. You don't look like someone blinded by hate at all.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yeah mate, that's what I said. You don't look like someone blinded by hate at all.

If expecting a grown man to be cognizant that actions have consequences, and believing that he doesn't need to be protected from this realization by being babied, is being "blinded by hate", then sure, I'm "blinded by hate". I'll take that, guilty as charged.

 

[Berniece]

If expecting a grown man to be cognizant that actions have consequences, and believing that he doesn't need to be protected from this realization by being babied, is being "blinded by hate", then sure, I'm "blinded by hate". I'll take that, guilty as charged.

Problem is that you think saying that you hope someone fails and abandons is just normal and fair criticism, and me saying that's pretty extreme is "babying" Uijtdebroeks.

 

[hrotha]

Berniece why do you want some other GC rider to do WORSE just so that Uijtdebroeks doesn't fail. Are you a hater?

 

[AmRacer]

Problem is that you think saying that you hope someone fails and abandons is just normal and fair criticism, and me saying that's pretty extreme is "babying" Uijtdebroeks.

Do you hope Pogi wins all 5 monuments and the Tour?

 

[Berniece]

Do you hope Pogi wins all 5 monuments and the Tour?

I don't hope he fails and abandons the races he participates in. That's pretty *** up. I hope Evenepoel wins LBL, that comes from a positive mindset. Doesn't mean I want Pogacar to abandon the race, that's just haters.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Problem is that you think saying that you hope someone fails and abandons is just normal and fair criticism, and me saying that's pretty extreme is "babying" Uijtdebroeks.

Portraying an adult as a child in order to absolve him of accountability is babying him, yes.

Lots of people cheer against teams or athletes they dislike and it's just a normal part of fandom. Schadenfreude is a thing. It isn't something extraordinary or sinister - it just happens to be against somebody you like on this occasion. If Netserk wished injury or illness on Cian, then sure, I agree, that's too far. But he didn't. He just hopes he does badly.

 

[Berniece]

Portraying an adult as a child in order to absolve him of accountability is babying him, yes.

Never said he shouldn’t be accountable for his actions. We disagree on the accountability of his actions though.

Also the concept of an “adult” is different over the world. So I prefer to follow science instead of laws that are different for different countries. Science says your brain isn’t fully developed until you’re 25

 

[AmRacer]

Never said he shouldn’t be accountable for his actions. We disagree on the accountability of his actions though.

Also the concept of an “adult” is different over the world. So I prefer to follow science instead of laws that are different for different countries. Science says your brain isn’t fully developed until you’re 25

How old are you? 24?
Everyone is accountable for their own actions.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Never said he shouldn’t be accountable for his actions. We disagree on the accountability of his actions though.

Also the concept of an “adult” is different over the world. So I prefer to follow science instead of laws that are different for different countries. Science says your brain isn’t fully developed until you’re 25

In which countries is he not legally an adult at 22?

 

[aphronesis]

Never said he shouldn’t be accountable for his actions. We disagree on the accountability of his actions though.

Also the concept of an “adult” is different over the world. So I prefer to follow science instead of laws that are different for different countries. Science says your brain isn’t fully developed until you’re 25

This is true and legality is demonstrably not a measure of maturity. Some of the language in recent posts may have been snide and sarcastic, but wasn’t Netserk’s original post (however debatable the latter one about maturity and military command) a confirmation of some psychological testing on these lines? Objectively deserved or not?

Science and abundant anecdotal evidence may confirm that, but not everyone’s there.

 

[Berniece]

In which countries is he not legally an adult at 22?

The actions you cry about the whole time is when he was 19, and the whole reason idiots say dumb things like: “I hope he fails and abandons”

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The actions you cry about the whole time is when he was 19

And he's still demonstrating the same traits today, as evidenced by the way he's moved on from a second team by age 22 because he isn't getting his own way.

He was an adult then, and regardless of how fully formed the brain is or is not, he was still old enough for people to make judgements based on his words and deeds that impact how they perceive him. Besides, you act like I am this ball of incandescent rage about Uijtdebroeks but in all honesty, he isn't very important - and certainly nothing like as important as he seems to think he is, which is what most of the derision is derived from. I was mostly just memeing him as a money-hungry mercenary before you went ham trying to protect him from criticism and inadvertently highlighted to me just how pathetic his tantrums about Bora and Vlasov actually were. You're perceiving it like this is vitriolic hatred, when mostly it's Schadenfreude.

You don't automatically like or dislike everybody you meet, and I didn't actively dislike Uijtdebroeks until he did something that caused me to do so. You seem to be making a really big deal out of the fact some people have looked at Cian's actions and perceived them negatively, and going out of your way to tell people why they're wrong, why he's actually a totally blameless innocent who has never done anything wrong ever, and that actually they can't voice their dislike of him because it might hurt his precious fe-fes.

And much like Logic getting needled on Remco or how people would make a big deal out of my dislike of Sagan, that's probably going some way to making people view Cian more negatively than they otherwise would.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Why keep going? You guys know what Berniece's arguments are going to be. You are not convincing him of anything at this point, its just pointless.

I do believe he should be given a second (or third, maybe) chance. He's still young, he is allowed to learn. Similar to Ayuso and how he dealt with all of his drama. I don't want to sit here and hold it against him 5 years later and hope he fails.

Cian is at Movistar. He has a great chance to prove himself without the injuries and a completely free path to leadership in the biggest of races.. now lets see what he has to offer. I personally don't think its very much, he reminds me too much of these Dutch GC-riders of the 10's without the proper top level talent to win big, but top-10's in WT stage races and maybe even the Tour would be big for Movistar.

 

[hayneplane]

Setting aside the turbulence of his career to date, and the whys and wherefores that entail, I think his likely ceiling is top 5 GC in the vein of a new Jurgen Van Den Broek as he has zero punch and poor ITT level.

 

[AmRacer]

Why keep going? You guys know what Berniece's arguments are going to be. You are not convincing him of anything at this point, its just pointless.

I do believe he should be given a second (or third, maybe) chance. He's still young, he is allowed to learn. Similar to Ayuso and how he dealt with all of his drama. I don't want to sit here and hold it against him 5 years later and hope he fails.

Cian is at Movistar. He has a great chance to prove himself without the injuries and a completely free path to leadership in the biggest of races.. now lets see what he has to offer. I personally don't think its very much, he reminds me too much of these Dutch GC-riders of the 10's without the proper top level talent to win big, but top-10's in WT stage races and maybe even the Tour would be big for Movistar.

Why surrender when you know you're right?

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TpQlyUjp3vM

 

[Hugh Januss]

Why surrender when you know you're right?

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TpQlyUjp3vM

Cut it off before the best parts! "Well I could be arguing in my spare time"

 

[Hugh Januss]

Setting aside the turbulence of his career to date, and the whys and wherefores that entail, I think his likely ceiling is top 5 GC in the vein of a new Jurgen Van Den Broek as he has zero punch and poor ITT level.

This is the situation in a nutshell. We are spending a ton of energy debating whether an athlete who is genetically far better suited to be a top climbing domestique should keep changing teams in pursuit of GC backing. It is what it is!

 

[saunaking]

Never said he shouldn’t be accountable for his actions. We disagree on the accountability of his actions though.

Also the concept of an “adult” is different over the world. So I prefer to follow science instead of laws that are different for different countries. Science says your brain isn’t fully developed until you’re 25

pffff...
Science...
Everyone knows older is wiser and nobody should be held accountable for anything they do until they are around 63 and a half

Where did science pick 25 from? Pretty round number for a scientist

 

[hrotha]

Setting aside the turbulence of his career to date, and the whys and wherefores that entail, I think his likely ceiling is top 5 GC in the vein of a new Jurgen Van Den Broek as he has zero punch and poor ITT level.

Nah, look at Escartín, he had zero punch and was a very mediocre time-trialer but he still managed to podium at the Tour because he managed to build and nurture a close-knit group of teammates who- ok nevermind he's screwed

 

[Wyndbrook]

Latest research suggests early thirties is the age when the the brain is fully mature and past adolesence.

 

[ingsve]

Where did science pick 25 from? Pretty round number for a scientist

It's likely a rounding number. Some individuals are perhaps fully developed at 23 years old and some at 24 years old so you make the statement 25 years in order to capture as many outliers as possible to be able to say that at least 95% of people are developed by age 25.

 

[Berniece]

Interview before the start of Valencia. There was no real freedom at Visma. They didn't allow him to train on his TT bike, they mostly focused on intense training, and not zone 2 training and threshold training which he called UAE training.

Movistar is much more laid back though. You don't need to weigh your food if you want to, and eat cake. Not what he is doing, but they allow their riders to do that.

First real goal is Basque, and don't expect much in Valencia. He's at least 3kg's too heavy and hasn't done any VO2 max training yet. His fatigue resistance level is up though.

https://archive.is/zqG9U

 

[Red Rick]

With that preparation I understand why Visma dis not allow him any freedom

 

[Samu Cuenca]

He should have moved to BHS - PL Beton Bornholm if he wanted to become a better time trialist.