Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[Netserk]

Like what? Be specific on what you think a 20-year old kid should “deserve” according to you

Persona non grata for a year.

 

[Netserk]

I suspect the trainers got it wrong. I heard some stories from Christian Moberg, a Danish commentator and a DS for a small Danish conti team, that he was not too fond of the training they did already back in January. Apparantly Moberg was following the training camp for a few days. It was said it was way too boring and slow for him, so he would ride some meters behind of the guys to not get draft and therefore increase his watts. So either the trainers got it wrong, or maybe they got it right, but he didn't really follow the program.

Wouldn't surprise me if he thought that he knew best and didn't follow the program, only to end up worse. Good riddance, if so.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Taking the dude's comments at face value, sounds like he needs some neuro and vascular testing done. Fibrosis or claudation sound like possible root causes if he actually feels numbness in his legs.

Red Rick mentioned it somewhere, could be the femoral artery issue. Oomen and Aru had that as well. After the operation they never reached their previous level though.

Uijtdebroeks says his heartrate and lungcapacity aren't maxed out at all, but his legs just feel numb and he can't push any harder.

 

[Unchained]

Red Rick mentioned it somewhere, could be the femoral artery issue. Oomen and Aru had that as well. After the operation they never reached their previous level though.

Uijtdebroeks says his heartrate and lungcapacity aren't maxed out at all, but his legs just feel numb and he can't push any harder.

Yeah or it could be the thing that all races deal with sooner or later, people are just better than you. Guy is a talent, he has done nothing to add humility to anything about himself, personally or professionally. He is still young, dumb to even focus on numb legs or anything else. Just set the clock for sometime based in reality. Lower the temperature and realistically set expectations. Cian is an above average racer but all the pressure of real life intersecting with all the hype.. Too much.. Physically and mentally. You listen to all the current best, you see and hear a night and day difference from just a few years ago.. Saying negative things about anything.. Look bikes are too heavy, no team support, legs feel numb, got an historic contract breaking trade because Richard knows I am a prodigy.. and more.. Just things you have to overcome later after you self deliver baggage.
Guy is doing OK..
Hear guys who lost, Kuss, O'Connor, Landa, Mas, they all put a positive spin on it, not what they lost but what they still accomplished despite not being number one that day or overall. Looking for micro victories where you can get them. Uiltdebroeks is going to fill his head, his interview history with all these excuses and self doubt, doubt by others questioning his talent. Hard to overcome.
Funny in another thread referring to Marcel Kittle, an absolute physical specimen, had race savy, had all physical attributes for greatness but couldn't get the mental part of the sport in place..
And you see it with Caleb Ewan, moments of mental weakness, lashing out instead of owning it.
Visma management need to see Cian's expression of self doubt as a very very serious problem especially because it was a mental breakdown in his surroundings that got him from one team to another. In the movies someone slaps you really really had so you regain your senses.. And even within the week!! Wout and Sepp making Kuss losing into a positive.. Kuss being selfless, team player, rising to the occasion.. somehow Kuss not winning was moulded into a positive and something that makes him stronger. Check the internet, many immediate positive things about Kuss, who probably had numb legs.. but saying that is not helpful!!!
Part of current Roglic genius is not using a second to discuss in detail the errors that put O'Connor ahead, counterproductive and useless.

 

[firefly3323]

Yeah or it could be the thing that all races deal with sooner or later, people are just better than you.

The elephant in the room

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yeah or it could be the thing that all races deal with sooner or later, people are just better than you.

Stopped reading there. This is clearly not his level, in case you missed it, he already finished the Vuelta in the top 10. Clearly something is wrong, so i see no reason why he would lie about it. If he wanted to make excuses, there would have been a bunch more obvious ones.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Complains about numb feelings in the legs.

Could be the constricted iliac artery thing

That was my first thought after the interview. PFP had two operations to cure hers.....I think Vos has had it as well.....

 

[Pozzovivo]

Of course something is wrong. Anyone who says that this is his level is just being provocative.

When he returns fully fit he will turn into the finest replacement we ever had for Haimar Zubeldia.

 

[Mako]

Of course something is wrong. Anyone who says that this is his level is just being provocative.

When he returns fully fit he will turn into the finest replacement we ever had for Haimar Zubeldia.

If something really is that wrong with him and his legs are as numb as he describes, he should better quit the race. He's just risking making it worse otherwise.

Unless he's just making up excuses, which, unfortunately, fits the character he has displayed over the past 12 months.

 

[Faserr]

Last year as a fan who followed Bora I thought he and his team should be super happy about his performance all year. In the vuelta I didn't even think once that Vlasov attacked him and I still believe the attack had nothing to do with Uijtdebroeks. After the comments from Uijtdebroeks I realised that he already thought that he is the team leader and the next big thing while the team still wanted to develop him, which went fine until his backleash to the team which let to breaking the contract in a really bad way.
I think he already put way too much pressure on him which and now after his strange saga in december he is way more in the spotlight. This could break him now, which is unfortunate, but shomehow his fault.

 

[Pozzovivo]

If something really is that wrong with him and his legs are as numb as he describes, he should better quit the race. He's just risking making it worse otherwise.

Unless he's just making up excuses, which, unfortunately, fits the character he has displayed over the past 12 months.

I am pretty sure he will abandon the race now. It may be the heat of course - then he should ride on until next week where it will be cooler. I think we shouldn't speculate in him making fake excuses for his performance. If something is seriously wring Visma would have pulled him already for sure, no?

 

[Mako]

I am pretty sure he will abandon the race now. It may be the heat of course - then he should ride on until next week where it will be cooler. I think we shouldn't speculate in him making fake excuses for his performance. If something is seriously wring Visma would have pulled him already for sure, no?

What are you saying then? If something is indeed seriously wrong and you are saying Visma should have pulled him, the only option left is, that he is indeed making fake excuses. Could all be also a psychological issue, as many here already speculated that he is putting a lot of pressure on him after that... let's say "unlucky situation" last year.

 

[Pozzovivo]

What are you saying then? If something is indeed seriously wrong and you are saying Visma should have pulled him, the only option left is, that he is indeed making fake excuses. Could all be also a psychological issue, as many here already speculated that he is putting a lot of pressure on him after that... let's say "unlucky situation" last year.

I'll try to be clearer.

1. The level he has shown in la vuelta is not his normal level. He has been much better than this for two years already. He is basically in the grupetto now on mtn stages.
2. Thus, I think he is ill.
3. I think Visma and Cian decided to try again one more day to make sure that they didn't give up too soon.
4. I think he DNS tomorrow.
5. I don't think that his psychological state is to blame for his poor performances this vuelta.
6. I don't believe he is under a lot of pressure from the team or belgian press or anyone else. He is a young rider with a nice talent, and is expected to be solid and progress. He's doing that apart from this vuelta. I don't live on top of the paterberg but I've never heard much talk about him in the media that suggest that he should win GT or anything like Remco experienced early on from International media too. I can be wrong about this of course.

Can you point me to a concrete case where he gave excuses that in reality didn't fit the facts?

 

[Mako]

I'll try to be clearer.

1. The level he has shown in la vuelta is not his normal level. He has been much better than this for two years already. He is basically in the grupetto now on mtn stages.
2. Thus, I think he is ill.
3. I think Visma and Cian decided to try again one more day to make sure that they didn't give up too soon.
4. I think he DNS tomorrow.
5. I don't think that his psychological state is to blame for his poor performances this vuelta.
6. I don't believe he is under a lot of pressure from the team or belgian press or anyone else. He is a young rider with a nice talent, and is expected to be solid and progress. He's doing that apart from this vuelta. I don't live on top of the paterberg but I've never heard much talk about him in the media that suggest that he should win GT or anything like Remco experienced early on from International media too. I can be wrong about this of course.

Can you point me to a concrete case where he gave excuses that in reality didn't fit the facts?

Thanks for clarifying. I would agree with most - let's see if he continues beyond the rest day.

And top 6): Well yeah, I guess you're right - no hard evidence. But how he left Bora when he claimed "the team didn't help me develop" "the bikes are inferior" "I was mobbed by the others" "they called me names" - doesn't it sound peculiar to you? Not even remotely?

 

[Pozzovivo]

Thanks for clarifying. I would agree with most - let's see if he continues beyond the rest day.

And top 6): Well yeah, I guess you're right - no hard evidence. But how he left Bora when he claimed "the team didn't help me develop" "the bikes are inferior" "I was mobbed by the others" "they called me names" - doesn't it sound peculiar to you? Not even remotely?

Yes, when I heard the "bikes are not good enough" thing. That was a ridiculously stupid comment - Specialized bikes are good enough for Remco, so they must be good enough for Cian. I think Aldag dismantled the comments very well in an interview i heard. He was on point about that.

And yes, it sounds peculiar to me too. Also remotely

What was the end of the bullying saga btw? It became a story so I assume that is something there? Even Aldag aknowledged that "some older riders" didn't like it when a younger riders told them how they should improve.

There is tension in every team. Maybe Cian is bad at dealing with interpersonal conflicts or something. Dosent make him a villain - just immature imo.

 

[Mako]

Yes, when I heard the "bikes are not good enough" thing. That was a ridiculously stupid comment - Specialized bikes are good enough for Remco, so they must be good enough for Cian. I think Aldag dismantled the comments very well in an interview i heard. He was on point about that.

And yes, it sounds peculiar to me too. Also remotely

What was the end of the bullying saga btw? It became a story so I assume that is something there? Even Aldag aknowledged that "some older riders" didn't like it when a younger riders told them how they should improve.

There is tension in every team. Maybe Cian is bad at dealing with interpersonal conflicts or something. Dosent make him a villain - just immature imo.

Yeah, you're right. Let's give him a few years and see what happens. But I'm afraid most people don't get punchier with age, so he will atleast have to improve his TT greatly.

 

[Squire]

Yeah, you're right. Let's give him a few years and see what happens. But I'm afraid most people don't get punchier with age, so he will atleast have to improve his TT greatly.

Evenepoel disagrees.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Yeah, you're right. Let's give him a few years and see what happens. But I'm afraid most people don't get punchier with age, so he will atleast have to improve his TT greatly.

Having a slightly higher level will give him more punch compared to his rivals. Mas is hardly punchy but on a very high level.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yes, when I heard the "bikes are not good enough" thing. That was a ridiculously stupid comment - Specialized bikes are good enough for Remco, so they must be good enough for Cian.

And top 6): Well yeah, I guess you're right - no hard evidence. But how he left Bora when he claimed "the team didn't help me develop" "the bikes are inferior" "I was mobbed by the others" "they called me names" - doesn't it sound peculiar to you? Not even remotely?

So you two are now just making stuff up? When has he ever said Specialized bikes aren't good enough? He was complaining about the TT bike not being set up for him and there not being a spare bike or something, IIRC, at Chrono Des Nations. There was no complaining about the brand as far as i know. He has told his teammates at Visma that he didn't know where the story about him getting bullied came from. He himself has never made such claims, those were claims made by a Dutch journalist.

 

[Gargamel35]

So you two are now just making stuff up? When has he ever said Specialized bikes aren't good enough? He was complaining about the TT bike not being set up for him and there not being a spare bike or something, IIRC, at Chrono Des Nations. There was no complaining about the brand as far as i know. He has told his teammates at Visma that he didn't know where the story about him getting bullied came from. He himself has never made such claims, those were claims made by a Dutch journalist.

Yet he kept quiet the whole time because it helped him get his way while press was killing Bora for bullying poor Cian.

He's a red flag without results.

 

[Red Rick]

I think the mentality angle works a little bit but not like "he's gone to pack fodder cause he's choking" but more in the way that the belief he should be better than he is may lead him to think he knows better than his trainers and overtrain. And if that's been going on a while and gone on pretty hard then it fucks with you.

 

[tobydawq]

I'm beginning to suspect that the rumours that he was an improved version of Remco might have been exaggerated.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I think the mentality angle works a little bit but not like "he's gone to pack fodder cause he's choking" but more in the way that the belief he should be better than he is may lead him to think he knows better than his trainers and overtrain. And if that's been going on a while and gone on pretty hard then it fucks with you.

From what I have heard, overtraining is kind of realistic. Again, Danish commentators were talking about the various reasons for him underperforming, and Rolf said something along the lines of "maybe he just hasn't trained enough" after going through various of reasons, and Moberg, the guy I was referring to earlier who were in the camp at Visma, said something along the lines of "if anything, with Cian, he's just trained too much".

Something like that is quite helpful though if thats the case. You learn from it, and I generally feel its a positive that you are very interested in training, how the body works, is doubting trainers etc. etc. instead of acting like a robot and doing exactly what is being prescribed without ever thinking about whether it could be optimized or anything like that.

 

[Rackham]

I'm of the opinion the psychological aspect plays a huge role with this rider.

Think back to Catalunya in March: he basically rage quit when they entered the final circuit & he got instantly dropped. Kruijswijk ended up getting freedom that day because one of the guys he was supposed to be working for pulled over & got off the bike. Without illness or injury.

That's just one example.

 

[Pozzovivo]

So you two are now just making stuff up? When has he ever said Specialized bikes aren't good enough? He was complaining about the TT bike not being set up for him and there not being a spare bike or something, IIRC, at Chrono Des Nations. There was no complaining about the brand as far as i know. He has told his teammates at Visma that he didn't know where the story about him getting bullied came from. He himself has never made such claims, those were claims made by a Dutch journalist.

No. I am obvisouly paraphrasing what Cian said and the implication is that he thought his equipment (specialized tt bikes) was not good enough. So no i'm not making stuff up.

His actual quotes:
- it would be nice if my bikes were in order.
And that spare bike turned out to be completely out of order. Then you can still ride as fast as you want, but that's not cool. I came here to learn. Then it would be nice if my bikes were in order
- It's something we really need to improve,

Uijtdebroeks continued: "There is still a lot of margin, especially in terms of aerodynamics and the construction of the bicycle itself. I have the power. Here too, with my 65 kilos, I pedal almost 400 watts on average over an hour. However, the entire framework needs to be fine-tuned. We just lose a lot with that.

In bold you can very clearly see that direct criticism of Specialized and the Team.

You don't understand why Specialized was unhappy with those statements? Rolf Aldag literally apologized to specialized and made an announcement in press to say that those statements from Cian was incorrect.

So no I am not lying and i've been defending Cian for most of these posts. Those comments were not ideal.