Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

[Berniece]

I mean you wrote what you feel the reasons where for Cian leaving. If we take that at face value and compare it to his campaign at Visma so far, then his old team feels more and more like heaven on earth?

Why? No Visma rider ever stabbed him in the back and went for his GC position.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Why? No Visma rider ever stabbed him in the back and went for his GC position.

He should i guess first be in a position to get such a stab, his pre race (co)leader watching him in the back, both to be in top 10. Jonas in your opinion won't drop him?

Anyway, to me and so far and even if we look at it from the most naive eyes and at face value out there, so far the transfer was a flop.

 

[Berniece]

He should i guess first be in a position to get such a stab, his pre race (co)leader watching him in the back, both to be in top 10. Jonas in your opinion won't drop him?

What? I don't think you understand what I said.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Why? No Visma rider ever stabbed him in the back and went for his GC position.

But he went, after feeling stabbed in the back by a (more proven) teammate going for his GC program, to a team who had not one but TWO more proven GC riders going for a teammate's GC position and who were allowing it until they got ratioed too hard on Twitter. That's what seems so bizarre. That if this was truly the sole cause of the schism, he would choose a team where he would be further from a free role, and which had demonstrated the same issue in even more high profile circumstances. And he can't have failed to notice, they made up the entire podium of the very same race as the one he's bewailing his mistreatment at.

Therefore I believe there are other factors at play, and that Cian's only telling us half the story (and it's - as you would of course expect - the half of the story that paints him as an entirely innocent, wronged party). And entirely omitting motivation for the move specifically to Visma. Because they are guilty of the same things he complains about Bora for. But they were offering him more money.

 

[CyclistAbi]

What? I don't think you understand what I said.

Nobody in your team will back stab you at a GT, fighting for a position, if you aren't even in contention.

@Libertine Seguros

Indeed, moving to Visma Cian had to understand Jonas won't back stab him, as he will be working for Jonas from the get-go. So the argument of "undisputed leader", that indeed is moot. By moving to Visma Cian was prepared to not be that at that point of his career.

If Vlasov was really such a problem then likely they had some personal beef. Rather normal for men at this age.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Main argument IMHO was more money and Visma back then was like UAE is now, everybody was winning and was winning a lot. Visma lost Rogla and wanted something in return and for Cian it likely felt a step up in every possible way. It helped that Visma wanted Cian too, some forum members back then argued on how better Cian already is, to Rogla.

So on paper it seemed sound and in reality RBH is now becoming what Cian actually wanted to get out of it. Staying hence would IMHO turned out better for him instead life happened. Not all is lost as it seems that Cian is raising in form again and as such he still can salvage it all, by becoming Jonases successor or maybe becoming a GT leader for SOQ, that might be a nice fit too. In the end RBH didn't bankrupt, due to Cian leaving.

All in all it should be fine. As for us , the fans. We need to learn to forgive and our hearts need to be open to getting disappointed again and again.

Are we up to that?

 

[AlpRaid]

@Berniece

Still in retrospective and so far it seems that the move might have been a mistake?

U do know that he has been diminished by nerve damage issues, right? So his results at Visma are nothing compared to the potential he had showed and is now (hopefully!) showing again.

I respect Visma for having patience and also NOT sending him to the Vuelta just because he now “appears” to be back in shape. How many times could have Remco benefitted from that guidance. No Giro in 2021 and no TDF in 2025 to start with.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@AlpRaid

Do you reckon such issues would surface if he would have stay?

 

[CyclistAbi]

What is rather fascinating is Cian left this team for what seems the exact same reasons Remco joined.

 

[Berniece]

What is rather fascinating is Cian left this team for what seems the exact same reasons Remco joined.

Red Bull wasn’t even in the picture back then.

 

[AlpRaid]

@AlpRaid

Do you reckon such issues would surface if he would have stay?

no idea. however, I find it hard to believe that a health issue like that would happen at one team, but not at another. I mean it was a nerve issue that was stopping him from being able to push power like he is clearly able.

 

[CyclistAbi]

no idea. however, I find it hard to believe that a health issue like that would happen at one team, but not at another. I mean it was a nerve issue that was stopping him from being able to push power like he is clearly able.

Yeah but then there was things like equipment mentioned often ... All in all if Cian would stay i feel it's rather safe to assume he would already top 5 at a GT. But anyway, he recently won a race and lets build on that.

 

[Berniece]

But he went, after feeling stabbed in the back by a (more proven) teammate going for his GC program, to a team who had not one but TWO more proven GC riders going for a teammate's GC position and who were allowing it until they got ratioed too hard on Twitter. That's what seems so bizarre. That if this was truly the sole cause of the schism, he would choose a team where he would be further from a free role, and which had demonstrated the same issue in even more high profile circumstances. And he can't have failed to notice, they made up the entire podium of the very same race as the one he's bewailing his mistreatment at.

There are several differences here. First, the position they were fighting for: at Visma, it was about winning the GC, while Vlasov was chasing 7th place from Uijtdebroeks. Second, at Visma it was likely discussed internally that Roglic and Vingegaard could attack Kuss and ride for the win, until they later decided against it. At Bora, however, nothing was said to Vlasov or Uijtdebroeks, which is probably why Uijtdebroeks felt betrayed — you simply don’t try to take 7th place from your own teammate.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

There are several differences here. First, the position they were fighting for: at Visma, it was about winning the GC, while Vlasov was chasing 7th place from Uijtdebroeks. Second, at Visma it was likely discussed internally that Roglic and Vingegaard could attack Kuss and ride for the win, until they later decided against it. At Bora, however, nothing was said to Vlasov or Uijtdebroeks, which is probably why Uijtdebroeks felt betrayed — you simply don’t try to take 7th place from your own teammate.

Idunno, when you put it like that, I think characterising him as a snake who went behind his team's back in pursuit of more money might actually be less insulting than saying that he threw an almighty temper tantrum about betrayal and bullying that made staying on the same team untenable, over the difference between 7th and 8th place in the Vuelta.

 

[Berniece]

Idunno, when you put it like that, I think characterising him as a snake who went behind his team's back in pursuit of more money might actually be less insulting than saying that he threw an almighty temper tantrum about betrayal and bullying that made staying on the same team untenable, over the difference between 7th and 8th place in the Vuelta.

Then we just have a difference of opinion when it comes to this. I think it shows the type of character Vlasov is, and I would be pissed too. I honestly doubt money was a driving factor. Sure he got paid more, but Bora was also always going to pay him fairly so he probably could’ve earned the same there.

 

[peterfin]

Lets conclude that all of this is just a matter of opinion between forum members as apparantly nobody else cares about it nowadays: not RBH, not Visma, not the media or anyone else. He isn't asked to appologize or whatever. Lets see what he does in the future, while he matures as a pro. We can check if this gives us clues about him having a bad, selfish character or not.

I am actually happy the guy is showing some potential again after injuries and want to focus on that. For the future of the sport we need more GC guys that can give at least a semblance of a challenge to Pogacar and his power rangers.

 

[Berniece]

He doesn't seem to have much opposition during Czech Tour. Besides winning the GC he might also win 2 stages looking at the profiles.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Second, at Visma it was likely discussed internally that Roglic and Vingegaard could attack Kuss and ride for the win, until they later decided against it.

Nope, Jonas simply decided to dedicate a stage win to his child and that lets say started things. All in all what went on in between the trio was levels above on what went on in between Cian and Alex.

 

[Berniece]

Nope, Jonas simply decided to dedicate a stage win to his child and that lets say started things.

That sounded more like an excuse. I completely understand why Roglic wanted to leave after that Vuelta.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Idunno, when you put it like that, I think characterising him as a snake who went behind his team's back in pursuit of more money might actually be less insulting than saying that he threw an almighty temper tantrum about betrayal and bullying that made staying on the same team untenable, over the difference between 7th and 8th place in the Vuelta.

That's a funny way of looking at things. That's a bit like saying leaving your wife for a younger/richer/prettier woman is more honourable than leaving your wife because she slept with another guy behind your back.

 

[CyclistAbi]

That sounded more like an excuse. I completely understand why Roglic wanted to leave after that Vuelta.

So why would Cian want to join Visma then if he witnessed the spat in between the trio? His spat with Alex was peanuts compared to that. Why would you then go to even worse place if you tried to get away from that in the first place.

So many unknowns indeed.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That's a funny way of looking at things. That's a bit like saying leaving your wife for a younger/richer/prettier woman is more honourable than leaving your wife because she slept with another guy behind your back.

See, I think the difference in importance between 7th and 8th at the Vuelta is not that great. Quick, who finished in those positions last year? In 2015? 2021? It's not like 1st vs. 2nd, or 3rd vs. 4th. It's two relatively interchangeable positions that are both on the front page of the results sheet but ultimately forgettable.

I think it's more like leaving your partner for making a scene at a restaurant, rather than something as serious as infidelity. Something on the scale of infidelity? That's probably, in the analogy, more like what was going on at Visma in the 2023 Vuelta before they got frightened of social media. Which is why I don't really buy the idea that this was the primary motivator for his switch of teams, because he's jumping to a team which demonstrated the same problems - only worse, and on a higher profile, against a more proven rider (while "GC Kuss" was memed and he hadn't got the experience as a leader, Kuss was nevertheless a far more established quantity in the péloton and his abilities in the mountains were well known). If he reacted this badly to the team allowing Aleksandr Vlasov to ride for 7th place, that the only solution was a complete and immediate break with the team, to rip up his contract, accuse them of bullying him in the press, and to sign another contract for more money elsewhere...

 

[CyclistAbi]

I think it's more like leaving your partner for making a scene at a restaurant, rather than something as serious as infidelity.

Unless you make a scene due to infidelity? Now that is a thought to think about some.

As for the discussion, i am glad we had it, what it made me realise is that in a span of one season, or so, one Belgian rider wanted to get away from this team, forcefully if needed and another one wanted to join it by all means necessary.

And in defence of both this riders some Belgian fans are now walking on thin ice, trying to portray the team as both bad and good, depending on the rider involved.

Now that is rather slick if you ask me.

 

[Berniece]

Which is why I don't really buy the idea that this was the primary motivator for his switch of teams

But money seems like such a weird motivator when he probably could've gotten the same contract at RBH. As if RBH didn't want to re-open his contract and offer him more after his Vuelta performance.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

See, I think the difference in importance between 7th and 8th at the Vuelta is not that great. Quick, who finished in those positions last year? In 2015? 2021? It's not like 1st vs. 2nd, or 3rd vs. 4th. It's two relatively interchangeable positions that are both on the front page of the results sheet but ultimately forgettable.

It may be forgettable to you and me, but not to the 20 year old rookie for whom this would be a great result and wants to become a major GC rider.

You can also ask yourself, if it is that negligible, why did Vlasov think it was worth attacking a teammate for? Why do riders in the third group at 5 minutes from the stage winner, still sprint for places 25-30 in a Tour stage?

It's pride, it's trust, it's principle, feeling to be taken for a chump...