Circ

[Benotti69]

Interesting.

Kimmage told VeloNation that he has seen the term of reference and is keen to see what the CIRC will achieve.

“I’m wondering if I can make a contribution,” he said, while also calling on any others with information to do the same.

“I think the investigation is good, but the only worry I have is that it starts in 1998. If they go further back and start in 1989 there is a better logic to it.

“Verbruggen came in in 1990, which is also when the peloton went into EPO. That would seem a lot more logical for me in terms of a start date. I think they would do a lot better if they did it then.

“I could certainly make a contribution. I think I’ll talk to them. I feel it is important that anybody who can make a contribution does that too.”

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...immage-Verbruggen-persists.aspx#ixzz2tV8ucDjJ

 

[RobbieCanuck]

... Ah, transparency - isn't that another meaningless trite word like 'culture'? What is it that you feel they need to show - and I would assume this would be to show the 'culture' has changed.

I have argued on other threads that transparency is essential to cleaning up the sport. In my view this would include,

1. Every rider publicly publishing their hematocrit level every time it is taken
2. Every rider publishing the results of every in or out of competition doping test they take
3. Every rider publishing every application for a TUE and the results of those applications.
4. Every rider affirming they have complied with whereabouts.

Now if every team, owner, sponsor, DS and rider agreed to this, it seems to me it would go a long way to eliminate doping. I recognize this impinges on the rights of riders to disclose medical information, but I am not talking about disclosing every aspect of their medical history, just these narrow parameters as they relate to cycling and doping. It would also demonstrate a new culture towards doping.

Anything less and the cynicism and doubts will continue to remain.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I have argued on other threads that transparency is essential to cleaning up the sport. In my view this would include,

1. Every rider publicly publishing their hematocrit level every time it is taken
2. Every rider publishing the results of every in or out of competition doping test they take
3. Every rider publishing every application for a TUE and the results of those applications.
4. Every rider affirming they have complied with whereabouts.

Now if every team, owner, sponsor, DS and rider agreed to this, it seems to me it would go a long way to eliminate doping. I recognize this impinges on the rights of riders to disclose medical information, but I am not talking about disclosing every aspect of their medical history, just these narrow parameters as they relate to cycling and doping. It would also demonstrate a new culture towards doping.

Anything less and the cynicism and doubts will continue to remain.

Overall, I would agree with the intention here - in particular that everyone does it.
But, it also exposes the real problem which IMO is what needs to be tackled - thats is that there is a lack of faith in those who actually possess most of that info - whether its APMU, WADA, UCI etc.

 

[42x16ss]

Stephen Swart is another rider who volunteered his doping of his own volition

Paul Kimmage wrote about his doping in his book rough ride.

Simeoni and Manzano both spoke out quite strongly as well, athough Manzano needed a near death experience and Simeoni was popped + if I remember corectly.

 

[bobbins]

I might have missed it as I've been travelling but how would one contact the CIRC?

 

[Catwhoorg]

I might have missed it as I've been travelling but how would one contact the CIRC?

The commission can be contacted at the following e-mail address: contact@circ2014.com

 

[mrhender]

Cookson talks again... Bans to come from CIRC?

Cookson talks to danish Ekstrabladet.
Behind a pay-wall..

http://ekstrabladet.dk/ekstra/sportogspil/article5263078.ece

Here is the google translate:

The silence may in the long run cost the Danish manager expensive to conclude the international cycling union UCI that Riis is not a 'fit and proper person', he can lose his license to work in the sport of cycling. He will thus be excluded with indefinite quarantine.

It says UCI president Brian Cookson to Ekstra Bladet. He previously called Riis and the Kazakh Astana boss Alexandre Vinokourov to provide a full explanation of their doping past to sport independent reform commission, CIRC. None of them have apparently followed Cook's call to put all the cards on the table.

- Time is running out, said Brian Cookson, bearing in mind that the CIRC in January will complete its work and in the wake of Lance Armstrong scandal issues a report on doping in cycling.

- We hope that the commission's work can give us some recommendations on how we can make an assessment of people who have a drug past, but who wish to continue their work in the sport.

- For me, part of the assessment is whether these individuals have contributed to the commission's work. Have they not done so, then it is clearly negative, said Brian Cookson.

The assessment shall determine whether people are 'fit and proper persons'. There is no requirement that they always have been, but it must be beyond doubt that they have changed track.

- Any legal system should allow absolution. One must assess whether people sincerely trying to follow the letter of the law now and in the future, even if they have done something wrong in the past, said Brian Cookson.

- I really expect all the people who want to work in the sport of cycling in the future, at the very least contributed to the work of the independent reform commission.

What do you do with them that does not exist 'fit and proper'?

- The ones we may refuse a license, so they can not take part in our sport. And if such a person in the management of a team, then this team will be sanctioned, says Brian Cookson.

- But I must stress that none of this of course is done without full legal backing.

Cookson rejects the idea that anyone with doping past should be thrown out of the sport, as he acknowledges that there is a considerable number of people. It will be virtually impossible to eliminate them from the sport, he assesses.

- I think we are much better served by ensuring that the people who are in the sport, is committed to do their jobs now and in the future.

- One way of ensuring this is to get everyone to come forward and lay their cards on the table. Not only for the two (Riis and Vinokourov, ed.), But for anyone who has a problematic past, I repeat my invitation to appear before the CIRC.

- And as I said: Time is running out, said Brian Cookson.

It has not been possible to take Bjarne Riis and Alexandre Vinokourov for comment.

 

[mrhender]

This could explain my theory that they are going after Kreuziger to get him talking... They need a legal basis of throwing Riis/Vino out.. Kreuziger may be the key to both...

 

[DirtyWorks]

This could explain my theory that they are going after Kreuziger to get him talking... They need a legal basis of throwing Riis/Vino out.. Kreuziger may be the key to both...

Vino out I could see. Riis seems untouchable. Maybe Riis brings in the right kind of money while those Kazakhs are a more troublesome kind of money.

We know the Kazakhs got ASO to bend to their will by threatening French trade with Kazahkstan. The IOC is not pleased with the country despite their repeated attempts to host the Olympics games.

 

[mrhender]

Vino out I could see. Riis seems untouchable. Maybe Riis brings in the right kind of money while those Kazakhs are a more troublesome kind of money.

We know the Kazakhs got ASO to bend to their will by threatening French trade with Kazahkstan. The IOC is not pleased with the country despite their repeated attempts to host the Olympics games.

Yes.. Riis has dodged his fair share of bullets..
I dunno if they will ever get him.

But Riis is in a different position now.
They have Tinkov to provide the money.
Only reason to hold on to Riis is that he maybe keeps Tinkov from going totally lunatic mode (not that I think so)..

Just imagine Cookson getting the best of those two.. (Vino/Riis)

One could argue that he, then would become the untouchable.
Leaving him with a lot of manuering space.

 

[Granville57]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/10/news/ucis-president-potential-armstrong-redemption_350148

This is the most interesting part:

Cookson wants to evaluate how those with previous doping issues function on teams now.

Uh oh.

“We need to have a mechanism that can look at the sport and decide who can stay in the sport and who needs to be thrown out,” Cookson said.

The winds of change are a blowin'.

This could get very, very interesting. He wants a chaining of the guard.

So whose heads might we find on the chopping block?

 

[thehog]

This is the most interesting part:
Uh oh.


The winds of change are a blowin'.

This could get very, very interesting. He wants a chaining of the guard.

So whose heads might we find on the chopping block?

You mean he's going to get rid of everyone in cycling with a doping past including Vaughters?

Great news!

 

[mrhender]

This is the most interesting part:
Uh oh.


The winds of change are a blowin'.

This could get very, very interesting. He wants a chaining of the guard.

So whose heads might we find on the chopping block?

Posted the below yesterday...
Might partly answer your question...
-------------------------------------------------
Cookson talks to danish Ekstrabladet.
Behind a pay-wall..

http://ekstrabladet.dk/ekstra/sportogspil/article5263078.ece

Here is the google translate:

The silence may in the long run cost the Danish manager expensive to conclude the international cycling union UCI that Riis is not a 'fit and proper person', he can lose his license to work in the sport of cycling. He will thus be excluded with indefinite quarantine.

It says UCI president Brian Cookson to Ekstra Bladet. He previously called Riis and the Kazakh Astana boss Alexandre Vinokourov to provide a full explanation of their doping past to sport independent reform commission, CIRC. None of them have apparently followed Cook's call to put all the cards on the table.

- Time is running out, said Brian Cookson, bearing in mind that the CIRC in January will complete its work and in the wake of Lance Armstrong scandal issues a report on doping in cycling.

- We hope that the commission's work can give us some recommendations on how we can make an assessment of people who have a drug past, but who wish to continue their work in the sport.

- For me, part of the assessment is whether these individuals have contributed to the commission's work. Have they not done so, then it is clearly negative, said Brian Cookson.

The assessment shall determine whether people are 'fit and proper persons'. There is no requirement that they always have been, but it must be beyond doubt that they have changed track.

- Any legal system should allow absolution. One must assess whether people sincerely trying to follow the letter of the law now and in the future, even if they have done something wrong in the past, said Brian Cookson.

- I really expect all the people who want to work in the sport of cycling in the future, at the very least contributed to the work of the independent reform commission.

What do you do with them that does not exist 'fit and proper'?

- The ones we may refuse a license, so they can not take part in our sport. And if such a person in the management of a team, then this team will be sanctioned, says Brian Cookson.

- But I must stress that none of this of course is done without full legal backing.

Cookson rejects the idea that anyone with doping past should be thrown out of the sport, as he acknowledges that there is a considerable number of people. It will be virtually impossible to eliminate them from the sport, he assesses.

- I think we are much better served by ensuring that the people who are in the sport, is committed to do their jobs now and in the future.

- One way of ensuring this is to get everyone to come forward and lay their cards on the table. Not only for the two (Riis and Vinokourov, ed.), But for anyone who has a problematic past, I repeat my invitation to appear before the CIRC.

- And as I said: Time is running out, said Brian Cookson.

It has not been possible to take Bjarne Riis and Alexandre Vinokourov for comment.

 

[mrhender]

You mean he's going to get rid of everyone in cycling with a doping past including Vaughters?

Great news!

Nope.. He prefers to pick and choose...

Take a look at the interview i just re-posted...

 

[Granville57]

You mean he's going to get rid of everyone in cycling with a doping past including Vaughters?

Now we know why JV has been pursuing that MBA.

Posted the below yesterday...
Might partly answer your question...

Fascinating. Thanks for that.

The silence may in the long run cost the Danish manager expensive to conclude the international cycling union UCI that Riis is not a 'fit and proper person', he can lose his license to work in the sport of cycling. He will thus be excluded with indefinite quarantine.

Does Riis have Ebola?

Seriously though, that's most interesting that he calls out Vino and Riis by name. I hadn't realized that this was part of the grand scheme behind CIRC. Was this always part of the plan? Had it been mentioned from the outset that the results from CIRC might be the removal of currently active members of the sport?

This is the first I've heard of this tactic.

 

[mrhender]

Now we know why JV has been pursuing that MBA.

Fascinating. Thanks for that.

Does Riis have Ebola?

Seriously though, that's most interesting that he calls out Vino and Riis by name. I hadn't realized that this was part of the grand scheme behind CIRC. Was this always part of the plan? Had it been mentioned from the outset that the results from CIRC might be the removal of currently active members of the sport?

This is the first I've heard of this tactic.

To the bolded...

My theory has been for while that this is the reason they are going hard after Kreuziger...
To get him talking... He could be the key to both Vino/Riis..

Kreuziger has been backed up and nursed by TS all the way....
(nursed to silence)

The game of chess is on...
The question is:
Who has the best hand? and who is to make the first mistake...

The battle Cookson is bringing on is massive...

Unless of course, it is all PR....
(which I'am beginning to doubt)

 

[the sceptic]

Looking forward to Cookson investigating what happened at sky in 2011. Or does this only apply for eastern european dopers?

 

[ebandit]

Seriously though, that's most interesting that he calls out Vino and Riis by name. I hadn't realized that this was part of the grand scheme behind CIRC. Was this always part of the plan? Had it been mentioned from the outset that the results from CIRC might be the removal of currently active members of the sport?

This is the first I've heard of this tactic.

It is the editor who names Vino and Riis. Cookson refers to them as 'the two'......my reading of this is not that he is saying that he wants to get rid of V&R specifically.....its that he is saying the mechanisms are being put in place whereby any team staff can be got rid of......he is saying that DS staff have to talk.....if they don't talk but are talked about then they could be for the chop......its great stuff.......real deep roots change.

Mark L

 

[Granville57]

The battle Cookson is bringing on is massive..

Also from the Velonews story:

The CIRC commission is expected to make its findings known and release a report in January of 2015.

I wonder just how much they are going to reveal in this report. Will it be a summary, or all the dirty details that may have been provided to them?

 

[Catwhoorg]

I would assume Vaughters has co-operated with CIRC.


I don't think he will be thrown out.

 

[mrhender]

It is the editor who names Vino and Riis. Cookson refers to them as 'the two'......my reading of this is not that he is saying that he wants to get rid of V&R specifically.....its that he is saying the mechanisms are being put in place whereby any team staff can be got rid of......he is saying that DS staff have to talk.....if they don't talk but are talked about then they could be for the chop......its great stuff.......real deep roots change.

Mark L

You are both right and wrong..

It is not the editor that says "the two" It is Cookson...
But it is them that says Vino/Riis to ensure reader comprehension...

If you bring in context it makes sense regarding Cookson's previous mention of Vino/Riis in regard to get them talking to circ..

However it should be said that this is not the most credible newspaper in DK.

 

[mrhender]

Also from the Velonews story:

I wonder just how much they are going to reveal in this report. Will it be a summary, or all the dirty details that may have been provided to them?

The danish ADD has also implied that their report on Riis could come in january.. They also say they are working closely with other institutions in the matter... There seems to be a coherence in time-tables...

 

[Granville57]

I'm still curious about the timeline on all of this.

Cookson said this back in January:
“I am delighted to announce that we now have the three-member Independent Commission which I promised in my Manifesto,” said Cookson in a statement on Wednesday (January 8).

“This Commission will investigate the problems cycling has faced in recent years, especially the allegations that the UCI has been involved in wrongdoing in the past – allegations which have done so much to hurt the credibility of the UCI and our sport.

“Their work will also be focused on understanding what went so wrong in our sport and they will make recommendations for change so that as far as possible those mistakes are not repeated.”

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...s-cycling-independent-reform-commission-19368

No mention of booting current people out of the sport.
And this:

we are in the final stages of discussions with WADA [World Anti-Doping Agency] to agree how best to incentivise people to co-operate with the Independent Commission,” said Cookson.

Do we know if they ever arrived at some sort of agreed upon way to "incentives" people to talk? Cookson is threatening people now, but was it ever made clear that if someone refused to be cooperative that their present career might be in jeopardy?


The only thing (at a glance) I could find from Cookson regarding the ejection of currently active members, was from September.

Cookson also said that he wants the CIRC to deal with the issue of past dopers in cycling.
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2014...on-cracking-doping_347364#YzSCUIZLItkovOrT.99

I'd still like to know if this was mentioned any earlier or not.

 

[mrhender]

I would assume Vaughters has co-operated with CIRC.


I don't think he will be thrown out.

Not if he co-operated...

The key is to at least contribute to the work of the CIRC...

Vino and Riis has ignored all requests it seems...

Cookson revealing that bans may come of denial to talk with the CIRC is a game changer if true...

 

[Granville57]

Cookson revealing that bans may come of denial to talk with CIRC is a game changer if true...

Big time. If Cookson were to toss Vino and Riis to the side of the road, his critics may have to reevaluate their position a bit.

And judging by Cookson strong stance against JTL, it makes me wonder just how much flak he really deserves.

JTL is British.
He rode for Team Sky.
He won the friggin' Tour of Britain.

How much more "British" could JTL be? (He's certainly more British than Froome.)

If Cookson was dead set on protecting all things under the Queen, I don't think he'd taking such a hard line on JTL. If his critics are willing to accept nothing short of him exposing and expelling Wiggins, they're likely to be mostly disappointed.

I'm mostly ambivalent on Cookson. I really haven't made up mind either way, nor have I felt the need to. He just hasn't been in office very long. But come January, if an independent organization is really set up to handle anti-doping (and that appears to be on schedule), and based on CIRC he begins to throw unrepentant past dopers out of the sport, then I can't imagine how he could possibly be considered "worse for cycling than McQuaid."

This could be the most entertaining off-season in quite some time.