Clean Brits?

[ThisFrenchGuy]

Interestingly Wiggins was wrong about Virenque. He was not a national hero. He was cheered on the TdF by fans at the roadside but the average French person thought Virenque was a doper and cheat. They did a poll in France and Virenque was second to LePen on the hated list.

Wiggins doing the false facts BS.

I am not sure it's as clear-cut as that.
Virenque was hugely popular on the verge of the Festina scandal. Him finishing second to Ullrich was a huge deal bordering on national frenzy, considering the absence of a French winner for several years then (and since). His... "simple-minded"... nature was a plus for him: the good old boy, not too bright but with heart...

Obviously the Festina scandal was quite a shock to everyone. People were indeed shocked about it, and the limited oratory skills of Virenque combined with a clumsy defense (He made up a famous oxymore by mistake: "Dopé à l'insu de mon plein gré" / "I was doped without my consent knowingly"... kinda hard to translate. Became a huge joke catchphrase.) made him appear a massive fool/tool. The man was properly ridiculed and the prime target among French racers implicated.

In the immediate post-Festina (when he was at Polti), people were weary and cautious of him. But the outrage died down: Virenque was contending for GC but realistically wouldn't win, and most of the attention went to the late Pantani then Armstrong, which were pulling quite the stunts in the climbs.

So the years went by, doping scandals continued, caught dopers made up excuses which sounded almost as ridiculous as Virenque...

The stain of Festina and the ridicule never went away for the rest of his career, however I would say the public opinion had considerably eased towards him.

While certainly not a "national hero" by any means, his solitary raids in the mountains were appreciated, his 2004 stage win on the French National Day in particular was quite the highlight and pleased the audience. I kinda liked it too, must admit. While a non-entity for the TdF win, Virenque always brought some excitement, which was well welcomed in the somewhat monotonous Reign of Armstrong.

No question however, that everyone here know he was (once?) a doper and a cheat. And that he was quite properly toasted by the media and public opinion (esp. in 98-99)...
Funnily (or sadly), he was the only one to receive such abuse: Christophe Moreau -generally the highest french rider in TdF GC in the Armstrong years- never got the same fame or shame, I'm pretty certain a lot of casual TdF fans would not remember he was part of that Festina team.

All this being said, Wiggins tribune in the Guardian is typical head-in-the-sand discourse.

 

[lemoogle]

I am not sure it's as clear-cut as that.
Virenque was hugely popular on the verge of the Festina scandal. Him finishing second to Ullrich was a huge deal bordering on national frenzy, considering the absence of a French winner for several years then (and since). His... "simple-minded"... nature was a plus for him: the good old boy, not too bright but with heart...

Obviously the Festina scandal was quite a shock to everyone. People were indeed shocked about it, and the limited oratory skills of Virenque combined with a clumsy defense (He made up a famous oxymore by mistake: "Dopé à l'insu de mon plein gré" / "I was doped without my consent knowingly"... kinda hard to translate. Became a huge joke catchphrase.) made him appear a massive fool/tool. The man was properly ridiculed and the prime target among French racers implicated.

In the immediate post-Festina (when he was at Polti), people were weary and cautious of him. But the outrage died down: Virenque was contending for GC but realistically wouldn't win, and most of the attention went to the late Pantani then Armstrong, which were pulling quite the stunts in the climbs.

So the years went by, doping scandals continued, caught dopers made up excuses which sounded almost as ridiculous as Virenque...

The stain of Festina and the ridicule never went away for the rest of his career, however I would say the public opinion had considerably eased towards him.

While certainly not a "national hero" by any means, his solitary raids in the mountains were appreciated, his 2004 stage win on the French National Day in particular was quite the highlight and pleased the audience. I kinda liked it too, must admit. While a non-entity for the TdF win, Virenque always brought some excitement, which was well welcomed in the somewhat monotonous Reign of Armstrong.

No question however, that everyone here know he was (once?) a doper and a cheat. And that he was quite properly toasted by the media and public opinion (esp. in 98-99)...
Funnily (or sadly), he was the only one to receive such abuse: Christophe Moreau -generally the highest french rider in TdF GC in the Armstrong years- never got the same fame or shame, I'm pretty certain a lot of casual TdF fans would not remember he was part of that Festina team.

All this being said, Wiggins tribune in the Guardian is typical head-in-the-sand discourse.

With the French and their athletes, it's always a love hate relationship. Hate them for anything they do wrong and love them for anything they do right. It's a difficult relationship with the athletes.
I was growing up in france during the festina affair, and the french never really supported him when he was claiming to be innocent, whether it was the media or the people.

Now while Virenque was not really disliked anymore, he was not really taken seriously anymore and has been often ridiculised. He's one of the most used character on the puppet parody comedy show "Les Guignols" often found saying ridiculous things about doping. His very modest and "nice guy" attitude as a tv consultant also helped boost up the feeling of the people regarding him.
Let's also remember that he was an exciting rider, and it lets people forget about the doping once in a while. Personally when I watch AC at the vuelta or even more so a Tour without AC, it's difficult to hate him, he makes things interesting.

On the French's opinion of their riders, Voeckler is more accused of doping on french forums and comments than really Wiggins or Froome. The French are way more open to criticizing their own riders and admitting to a weakness than the British would be.

I can't imagine the british media ever bashing on wiggins or froome were they involved in a drug scandal, nor the british people accepting it. I dont think the media are even ready for the possibility nor are the people. It would just go by like it was not real.

 

[LauraLyn]

I saw this one live on TV and was on the floor laughing about the moderator's final comment: "The team guy who ended the interview was Dario Cioni, a former pro cyclist, but not a great one, who is aggrandizing himself a little bit."

Cioni was attested a natural high hematocrit btw.

Vive le Velo is highly recommended and available via the net as well.

And then you find out that Wiggins stood outside on the pavement waiting for the team bus to get ready and leave.

Sporza was so subtle in the whole thing. It was just great to watch.

I do think the guys on Sportza were some of the best journalists in the Tour this year, ready to ask the hard questions (and doing it so d*** nicely). Great stuff.

(And love the way they caught McQuaid three days before he challenged USADA.)

 

[the sceptic]

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/cycling-weekly/100-best-riders-right-now-191982

This list is comedy gold.

Apparently Geraint Thomas is already better than Quintana and Contador.

Adam Yates is the 15th best rider in the world.

Simon Yates is better than Nibali.

lol!

 

[thehog]

Re:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/cycling-weekly/100-best-riders-right-now-191982

This list is comedy gold.

Apparently Geraint Thomas is already better than Quintana and Contador.

Adam Yates is the 15th best rider in the world.

Simon Yates is better than Nibali.

lol!

That is funny. Even LRP makes the list for tanking in the Giro!

 

[The Hitch]

These lists are always silly and rarely more than click baits when there's no other story to sell. There was one the telegraph did half a year ago. I didn't mention it here as I didn't want LS to have a heartattack, but amongst other jokes, they had Vasil Kiriyenkas career hilight as "being part of Froome's 2013 TDF team". A race he didn't even finish since he dnfd before the halfway point.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/cycling-weekly/100-best-riders-right-now-191982

This list is comedy gold.

Apparently Geraint Thomas is already better than Quintana and Contador.

Adam Yates is the 15th best rider in the world.

Simon Yates is better than Nibali.

lol!

#2 is hilarious. Prévot much better season than Armistead!

CW behaving in typical manner that we have come to expect.

 

[The Carrot]

AKA as 'Cycling Weakly' and 'Cycling Wankly'.

It's a struggling fanzine that will do anything to get British readers' attention, including making up bollox like this.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

This fits in with what I read in the Saunders book, that is it was some Spanish riders who were thrown out.

I know this bit of the convo is long dead but it's funny to see a variant of the Brits don't dope line being applied here. As well as the three Spaniards busted at the 1965 Milk Race there was a Briton chucked off the race, Ken Hill.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

These lists are always silly and rarely more than click baits when there's no other story to sell. There was one the telegraph did half a year ago. I didn't mention it here as I didn't want LS to have a heartattack, but amongst other jokes, they had Vasil Kiriyenkas career hilight as "being part of Froome's 2013 TDF team". A race he didn't even finish since he dnfd before the halfway point.

and VK had won a gold medal in either Athens of Beijing. I am going with Beijing. In the points race.

The guy was however, a boss as one of those Hincapie type do-it-all domo's. Like Kurt Asle Arvesen was when he rode on sky too. The road captains. Vasili was a genuine champion domestique with his own wins. P'raps a more talented Adam Hansen. A less famous Jens Voigt

 

[blackcat]

clean Brits are like clean Aussies. Its a paradox. They dont exist.

 

[StryderHells]

Re:

clean Brits are like clean Aussies. Its a paradox. They dont exist.

But they do exist! It's just not in a world thats based in reality

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/cycling-weekly/100-best-riders-right-now-191982

This list is comedy gold.

Apparently Geraint Thomas is already better than Quintana and Contador.

Adam Yates is the 15th best rider in the world.

Simon Yates is better than Nibali.

lol!

An utter piece of nationalistic garbage.

Question: what Brits have been left out of the top 100 and why?

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/cycling-weekly/100-best-riders-right-now-191982

This list is comedy gold.

Apparently Geraint Thomas is already better than Quintana and Contador.

Adam Yates is the 15th best rider in the world.

Simon Yates is better than Nibali.

lol!

What

The

F$&k???

Matthews 33, Van Avermaet 36, Chaves 41, Alaphillipe 48, Gallopin 95 (just a few examples) yet Thomas is 7, Dumoulin 6 and LRP 12???

While some names just seem to be added randomly so readers can throw the names about and sound knowledgeable.

 

[StryderHells]

Re:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/cycling-weekly/100-best-riders-right-now-191982

This list is comedy gold.

Apparently Geraint Thomas is already better than Quintana and Contador.

Adam Yates is the 15th best rider in the world.

Simon Yates is better than Nibali.

lol!

Cancellara rated 10 places above Matthews, Phinney even being rated in the top 100, Yates and Thomas oh and Armistead higher than Ferrand Prevot hmmmmm they must of been on one serious bender when coming up with that list

 

[StryderHells]

Re: ffs

.........ffs the article even states 'this is a subjective view with anglophile bias...............'

Mark L

So that discounts it from criticism?

 

[42x16ss]

Re: ffs

.........ffs the article even states 'this is a subjective view with anglophile bias...............'

Mark L

Subjective is one thing, rooted in fantasy is another...

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

They take "personality" into account and future prospects too
Basically making it a list of hottest cyclists, despite introducing it as a best cyclists ranking that is meant to address some shortcomings of the worldtour ranking

 

[railxmig]

Even before taking a mixture of nine overall, stage, TT and one-day wins in 2014, his versatility had seen him lead out Mark Cavendish, win the Tour’s white jersey and gain a team time trial world title.

I don't remember Kwiatkowski winning Tour's white jersey in 2014 and if they have in mind 2013 then he lost it to Quintana. Still Kwiatkowski in 2013 Tour was something special. He proved (or at least almost proved) that in today's peloton there can be a Sean Kelly/Roger de Vlaeminck/Phil Anderson type of guy competing not only in sprints but in the overall GC too (I'm not sure how to classify a rider like Valverde). I wonder what will come up in Sagan's rock&roll head in next couple of years (after he win his first monument, propably RVV) especially as being a ruleur to GT transformer is now in fashion (Doumulin, Thomas, apparently Valgren).

 

[the sceptic]

Re: ffs

.........ffs the article even states 'this is a subjective view with anglophile bias...............'

Mark L

thanks Mark. I hope this means I can now say cycling media has a pro brit bias without being labeled xenophobic or even worse.

The S.

 

[Catwhoorg]

The media as a whole, probably not.

Cycling weekly is a British magazine, which focuses extensively on (all levels of) British racing and racers, looking on them with some rose tinting to their spectacles.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Given the qualifier "right now" I can see why they would make a case for Armitstead over PFP. Lizzie is the World Champion and the World Cup overall winner, while PFP missed several of the key parts of the season due to injury and was not 100% at the Giro as a result. On this year's results, if you were going to argue somebody other than Armitstead it would probably be Anna VDB. However if it's simply about rider's capabilities all things being equal, then Armitstead still has very little in the way of stage racing capabilities. Even if it was just for a few weeks, PFP was the reigning world champion in road, cyclocross and MTB, and would have won the 2014 Giro if not for a) time bonuses and b) being asked to ride to defend Vos. That's simply incredible. And there's still Vos herself of course once she returns. If they're adding in a rider's personality as well, then really that ought to knock Lizzie "everything is everybody else's fault" Armitstead down the list rather than up.

And anybody who doesn't have Sestrières 2011 as Kiryienka's greatest career moment either knows nothing about the guy or has no heart. Even over the World Championships.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Re:

And anybody who doesn't have Sestrières 2011 as Kiryienka's greatest career moment either knows nothing about the guy or has no heart. Even over the World Championships.

100% Agree.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

They take "personality" into account and future prospects too
Basically making it a list of hottest cyclists, despite introducing it as a best cyclists ranking that is meant to address some shortcomings of the worldtour ranking

so you have to grow mutton-chops and like Paul Weller? what a w@nk, that is bad faith in extremis