Clean Colombians? (Arkea investigation page 27)

[RedheadDane]

In stage 13 he was fined 200CHF for waste disposal outside the waste areas. After that stage the fine went up to 500CHF for a few stages. There were 29 littering fines, so this was strictly enforced by the jury. With that in mind handing bottles back isn't much of an indicator anymore, but hey, what does the police know.

Yeah, definitely seem a bit counter-intuitive to me to on the one hand - understandably - demand that riders don't just throw their bottles everywhere, but on the other hand consider it suspicious if riders return bottles to their team car. What are riders supposed to do with those bottles? Magically make them disappea into thin air?

As for the finding bloody bandages part; I'd say it's more suspicious to not find at least a few bloody bandages in relation to a bike team at a race, especially a GT. Because that would mean that the team in question would have found some way to enhance the riders, causing their skin to become super tough!

 

[SHAD0W93]

Yeah, definitely seem a bit counter-intuitive to me to on the one hand - understandably - demand that riders don't just throw their bottles everywhere, but on the other hand consider it suspicious if riders return bottles to their team car. What are riders supposed to do with those bottles? Magically make them disappea into thin air?

As for the finding bloody bandages part; I'd say it's more suspicious to not find at least a few bloody bandages in relation to a bike team at a race, especially a GT. Because that would mean that the team in question would have found some way to enhance the riders, causing their skin to become super tough!

Didn't he have a crash or two as well?

 

[Rackham]

It does seem like we've returned to the funky era of riders & teams getting caught doping, after 10 years or so of Sky dominated total silence. They all need to be very careful, because unlike 20 years ago after Festina, there's now a political agenda in France which threatens the very existence of the Tour (ecologist mayors who're just looking for a pretext to pull the plug). Next time this stuff blows up or sometimes makes a huge, huge selfish mistake, it could destroy the entire race.

 

[RedheadDane]

Didn't he have a crash or two as well?

Exactly. He crashed, that happens in bike racing, crashes... sometimes cause bleeding.

 

[BlueRoads]

What a beautiful sight, conspiracy theories in full bloom.

 

[pastronef]

It does seem like we've returned to the funky era of riders & teams getting caught doping, after 10 years or so of Sky dominated total silence. They all need to be very careful, because unlike 20 years ago after Festina, there's now a political agenda in France which threatens the very existence of the Tour (ecologist mayors who're just looking for a pretext to pull the plug). Next time this stuff blows up or sometimes makes a huge, huge selfish mistake, it could destroy the entire race.

eh? 10 years? dominated? yes, the TDF.
NO SILENCE. Ricco 2011, the Iglyinsky brothers, Frank Schleck 2012, Santambrogio and Di Luca 2013, and then Ulissi, Yates, Pirazzi, Samu Sanchez, Siutsou etc maybe you didnt follow closely

 

[Rackham]

eh? 10 years? dominated? yes, the TDF.
NO SILENCE. Ricco 2011, the Iglyinsky brothers, Frank Schleck 2012, Santambrogio and Di Luca 2013, and then Ulissi, Yates, Pirazzi, Samu Sanchez, Siutsou etc maybe you didnt follow closely

Oh? I've followed very closely for 25 years. Doping scandals, positive riders, police raids etc. i.e. all were normal happenings during a Tour, especially during the Armstrong era. There was always a "breaking news rider xyz pinched" headline at some point or another up until the beginning of the 2010's. What happened in the last ten years pales by comparison. All the "rogue" idiots who got easily caught in previous eras vanished. For the first time, the 3 weeks in July would pass without any incidents.

I'm talking about the Tour de France specifically here between 2010 & 2020 (with Contador's steak problem being the last real major story), i.e. this Quintana affair is pretty much a return to the "glory" years of salacious headlines from a (almost) bygone era. It's almost enough to overshadow the "miraculous" new yellow jersey's fairytale win, in any case.

 

[Escarabajo]

Nairo's press release:

Nairo Quintana: I don't have anything to hide

Colombian says no doping substances were found during Arkéa-Samsic Tour de France raid

www.cyclingnews.com

Very straight forward and sure about himself. Let's hope it is true.

 

[huangho]

I guess there has to be a question why the heck you would carry bags of Saline for cleaning wounds, when everyone knows it is illegal substance in case used for aid dehydration (and mask blood doping). I suspect there are hundreds of other medicines to clean up wounds that does not associate to doping methods?

It's 100 ml, less than a water bottle, there are no bags in there...

One more day and it seems that it's the same situation that Remco faced before, this isn't good for anyone, neither cycling, neither french police, neither the tour, neither the team, there are no winners in this bad joke...

 

[red_flanders]

Nairo's press release:

Nairo Quintana: I don't have anything to hide

Colombian says no doping substances were found during Arkéa-Samsic Tour de France raid

www.cyclingnews.com

Very straight forward and sure about himself. Let's hope it is true.

Yeah that’s a fairly compelling denial. Sounds like he’s pretty sure the authorities don’t have squat.

 

[Sciatic]

Nairo's press release:

Nairo Quintana: I don't have anything to hide

Colombian says no doping substances were found during Arkéa-Samsic Tour de France raid

www.cyclingnews.com

Very straight forward and sure about himself. Let's hope it is true.

Pretty funny that as I started reading that article, the first ad I see, two paragraphs in, had a photo of a bunch of pills spilling out of a medicine bottle (it was a WebMD ad titled “10 medicines that contain opioids”). At first glance I though the photo was an illustration for the Nairo article!

 

[Sciatic]

Yeah that’s a fairly compelling denial. Sounds like he’s pretty sure the authorities don’t have squat.

I hope that’s true, but it leaves me wondering why two team staff are still in custody

 

[ExtraSpoke]

UCI rules re: needles are here: https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/rules-and-regulations/part-xiii--medical-rules.pdf
Page 21 §4 Ban on injections, 13.3.052 and on.
In some "... respect the possession of objects used or fit for an injection shall be presumed to constitute evidence ...", "... except for those objects that may reasonably be in a medical doctor’s possession. "

 

[Koronin]

So are these two people in custody staff as Nairo says or not staff as the team said? Also if there's nothing to see here why are there two people in custody at all?

 

[perico]

You need to be fluent in Spanish or have a translator installed on this one, but I think it laid it out pretty well what’s going on, translated by google:

La investigación del "caso Arkéa" sigue abierta - Ciclo21

El fisio navarro Mikel Otero y el médico colombiano González Torres, liberados

www.ciclo21.com

Specifically, everything indicates that the French authorities are investigating practices that "could be considered as a method of doping" and that, although they have not wanted to go into more specific details, they could be related to some method of blood doping.

Specifically, the information leaked in the last hours points to two possible findings that, if they were confirmed, could leave this whole matter to nothing or into a scandal of very important dimensions since in the search of the rooms of the brothers Quintana and Anacona would have found a solution of physiological saline or, and this is what worries the most, a substance to thin the blood .

What does seem to be confirmed is that the OCLAESP agents took, among other things, a 100-milliliter ampoule that was among the personal effects of one of the three cyclists mentioned.

The only thing that seems to be fully credited at this time is that in the search, which occurred last Wednesday night at the hotel where the team was staying in Les Allues, the agents found medical products among the personal effects of the runners, something that is expressly prohibited since this type of substances must always be registered and transported by the medical staff of the teams, a rule that was implemented after the so-called Festina scandal .

Despite the fact that the presence of any type of substance would already be an infringement of current regulations, the world of cycling is holding its breath waiting to know, officially, the content of that 100-milliliter ampoule and that some sources point to which could be an anticoagulant, a substance that has been detected very frequently in recent blood tests with a positive result in the squad.

 

[Escarabajo]

They police acts like they already know there are doping products: " «administrar y prescribir a un deportista sin justificación médica una sustancia o método prohibido en relación con un evento deportivo, ayudar e instigar el uso de una sustancia o método prohibido a los deportistas, transportar y poseer una sustancia o método prohibido para su uso por un deportista sin justificación médica, posesión ilegal de sustancias prohibidas y posesión de medicamentos para uso humano sin la debida documentación»

5 reasons why they are detained. But all related to substances that are prohibited. But they are in the Doctor's possessions? . I thought they could carry medical products even if prohibited in case of emergency. If they found them in Quintana's room is another thing. But if the they found them in the Doctor's bags who cares.

Quintana keeps repeating that he has not seen anybody outside the team's payroll. So not sure what Arkea is denying that they are not hired by them.

It seems everyone is waiting for the result of the 100 ml ampoule which was found in the riders bags. So the rest of the illegal medicines seems to come from the Doctor's bags?? Quintana is sure that the rest of medicines on their possessions are vitamins.

 

[Koronin]

You'd think someone could verify if the two detained people are or are not on the Arkea payroll.

 

[CTQ]

You'd think someone could verify if the two detained people are or are not on the Arkea payroll.

Le staff - Team Arkea Samsic

www.team-arkea-samsic.fr

here the list of the staff: the Otero guy is on the website,

 

[Unchained]

What a beautiful sight, conspiracy theories in full bloom.

this and the post by Extra Spoke should rule the day. The unions and race organizations can easily mandate conditions..no farm animals,no open flame BBQs, don't perform any surgery in your hotel room or team bus or car..
a syringe anywhere in cycling should be the entire team out..all riders ,directors and support staff out for the possession of needles ..
should be a mobile clinic,resembling a bookmobile ..or team bus for observation of all rider medical procedures that involve IV's or injecting anything..your GC position dictates when you enter the shooting gallery..guys off the back..2 hours down get seen on the drug bus after everyone else is finished getting filled.
The use of intravenous anything should be done with caution,care and cycling officials direct..w their eyes observation..and trace samples kept of everything squirted into a racers blood stream.

 

[Ripper]

this and the post by Extra Spoke should rule the day. The unions and race organizations can easily mandate conditions..no farm animals,no open flame BBQs, don't perform any surgery in your hotel room or team bus or car..
a syringe anywhere in cycling should be the entire team out..all riders ,directors and support staff out for the possession of needles ..
should be a mobile clinic,resembling a bookmobile ..or team bus for observation of all rider medical procedures that involve IV's or injecting anything..your GC position dictates when you enter the shooting gallery..guys off the back..2 hours down get seen on the drug bus after everyone else is finished getting filled.
The use of intravenous anything should be done with caution,care and cycling officials direct..w their eyes observation..and trace samples kept of everything squirted into a racers blood stream.

WTF? Not sure this makes sense.

But they should monitor sock height

 

[Koronin]

this and the post by Extra Spoke should rule the day. The unions and race organizations can easily mandate conditions..no farm animals,no open flame BBQs, don't perform any surgery in your hotel room or team bus or car..
a syringe anywhere in cycling should be the entire team out..all riders ,directors and support staff out for the possession of needles ..
should be a mobile clinic,resembling a bookmobile ..or team bus for observation of all rider medical procedures that involve IV's or injecting anything..your GC position dictates when you enter the shooting gallery..guys off the back..2 hours down get seen on the drug bus after everyone else is finished getting filled.
The use of intravenous anything should be done with caution,care and cycling officials direct..w their eyes observation..and trace samples kept of everything squirted into a racers blood stream.

So riders like Dowsett and teams like Novo Nordisk can't get TUE's for their riders' medical conditions that are well documented and well known?

 

[Unchained]

Both comments are correct about my post..if you are in a race and need vitamins that require injection, observed by race officials,need insulin,or antibiotics? Oversight,direct observation of what part of the body of went into by race officials.. Race, need drugs? Need official observation of their use.
out of competition,another animal.
bike racers should not have drugs or a way to dispense them in a bus car,Jersey pocket,hotel room while in competition.
period.
extreme solution for an extremely easy protocol problem to solve.
bike races, bike racers,fans and sponsors should not have to question what was found in a hotel..anything found should be a sign of guilt after every competing rider and team says that they will store and use legal substances in a very very very specific way during competition.
bike racing thinks that sponsors,TV and fans are willing to revisit this issue over and over and over. That is wrong.
Soon communities that welcome bike racing may change public position when drug use,drug abuse reaches critical mass.
The unions and federation need to quit fooling around

 

[RedheadDane]

don't perform any surgery in your hotel room or team bus or car..

Now, that is a brilliant piece of advice! No surgeries in the team car!

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Why didn't they try and bust El Condor at the beginning of 2020
when he was flying up hill.
That was way more suspicious that this time.

First knocked down by a car
then thrown under a bus

 

[PeterB]

You'd think someone could verify if the two detained people are or are not on the Arkea payroll.

It could be just a matter of legal view on their relationship - I can imagine that different staff members have different types of contracts with the team, some may even be contracted by the riders and funded through the riders' pay, while at the same time being accepted as "part of the team". So there may be different degrees of association between the staff and the team....