Climbing Speeds

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Mar 19, 2009
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acoggan said:
3) there is always the possibility of a physiological outlier, i.e., someone whose genetic make-up allows them smash through any ceiling you previously thought existed even without doping.

Ergo, such data are useful only:

1) to coaches/riders who wish to know what they need to be able to do to be competitive; and

2) for engaging in pub debates comparing different generations of riders.

Neither of the latter two interest or involve me, so I don't waste my time performing such calculations.
So Andrew, you do not believe that Contador, Pantani, Lance, Riis are outliers? I guess Chris Boardman wasn't an outlier when he set the world record, or Obree... Dont tell me you dont think Eddy wasn't an outlier!!

But really I think out of the hundreds of thousands of racing cyclists that they beat to get where they got, they had asserted themselves as being freaks of nature, that's just my 2 cents.
 
the sceptic said:
No chance Dawg beats that. Wild guess I would say he is somewhere behind Armstrongs and ahead of Cobo/Piepoli.
It will depend a lot on the tactical situation. Most likely Froome will be in yellow, and won't need to do anything on Hautacam. If he's strong and not in yellow, I think he could get very close to Armstrong.
 
Netserk said:
It will depend a lot on the tactical situation. Most likely Froome will be in yellow, and won't need to do anything on Hautacam. If he's strong and not in yellow, I think he could get very close to Armstrong.
When is Hautacam? How far into the Tour.

If Dawg gets near Mr. 64% then, wow.

But yes I think Kerrison via Brailsford on the radio will slow him down.

The other point is Dawg is 2-3 minutes better at climbing than anyone else. Once ahead he doesn't need to a bloc like Riis sorta did.

Of interest is also Porte. If he smashes the the field and the rolls in 2nd then I think I may just vomit.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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thehog said:
Actually Dawg might get near Riis.

He beat Ullrich v Armstrong 2003 and those guys were racing each hard (Ax3).

Dawg went alone.
Dawg will be alone on Haucatam too though. Its too bad its not possible to teleport Riis from 1996 and have him race against Froome.

Since Dawg is so much better than everyone else, he doesnt even have to fight for his wins. I bet he could go even faster if there was another rider close to the same level as him.
 
tbh with no ITT it's not beyond doubt that he will be in Yellow at that stage. Maybe I'm dreaming. I'd be happy enough with breaking his 2012 PdBF record given the differences in the stages and unlikelihood of a repeat of the epic train. Should get the job done to Risoul though. Pla d'Adet will probably be par, with the advantage of a shorter stage.
 
thehog said:
Actually Dawg might get near Riis.

He beat Ullrich v Armstrong 2003 and those guys were racing each hard (Ax3).

Dawg went alone.
Yeah, they were riding so hard that they couldn't drop Haimar Zubeldia. And they were slower than Laiseka's record - although I suppose he must be considered the greatest climber of all time as he has that record.
 
Parker said:
Yeah, they were riding so hard that they couldn't drop Haimar Zubeldia. And they were slower than Laiseka's record - although I suppose he must be considered the greatest climber of all time as he has that record.
Like Vaughters record up Ventoux?

If the Dawg can ride alone and beat those climbing times then he must be working harder than than the rest :rolleyes:
 
thehog said:
Like Vaughters record up Ventoux?
Yes. Another example of a lower level rider holding a record, thereby suggesting that the top riders never really gave their best performances on that particular climb (or were prevented from doing fast times by conditions) and that comparisons to them probably don't tell you much.

If you want to compare Armstrong and Froome pick the best performances from each on all climbs not what they did on a particular climb.
 
Parker said:
Yes. Another example of a lower level rider holding a record, thereby suggesting that the top riders never really gave their best performances on that particular climb (or were prevented from doing fast times by conditions) and that comparisons to them probably don't tell you much.

If you want to compare Armstrong and Froome pick the best performances from each on all climbs not what they did on a particular climb.
Froome's not a lower level rider? :rolleyes:
 
Parker said:
No. He is not. He has won some very big races. Unlike Vaughters and Laiseka.
Froome has won some very big races since September 2011. Prior he showed nothing bar the Atomic Jock Race.

Laiseka was a good climber all of his career. Had some very good results.

Unlike Froome who became good around 28 years of age. All of a sudden.

When from not being able to climb-10 minus-off the back sorta guy to whipping Contador.

And the rest is history.

Now Froome can out ride Ullrich/Armstrong.

Impressive.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Parker said:
Yes. Another example of a lower level rider holding a record, thereby suggesting that the top riders never really gave their best performances on that particular climb (or were prevented from doing fast times by conditions) and that comparisons to them probably don't tell you much.

If you want to compare Armstrong and Froome pick the best performances from each on all climbs not what they did on a particular climb.
Does that mean Armstrong had a headwind every time he tried to ride the Ventoux?:rolleyes: Or that he never tried his best?
 
Parker said:
I can out ride Armstrong and Ullrich if they go slow enough. And so can Froome. He wouldn't be able to outride them at their best, though. That's why he Alpe time, for example, is over two minutes slower than Armstrong.
??

Froome rode the 3rd best time up ax3 in history.

Armstrong's 2001 Ax3 is faster after he drafted Ullrich the whole way up.

Only just.

Froome after 220km was only off Mayo's ITT time on Ventoux.

He's not 3 minutes slower.

He bonked on d'Huez and waited for Porte.

Froome at full stretch would hold on well to both Ullrich and Armstrong.

Froome has only ridden the Tour twice as the new Dawg. In the first year with Wiggins there would no known named climbs and this year was his first there were no notables.

in 3 years time Dawg will be Top 5 if not Top 3 on every major climb there is in respect to times.

If he doesn't test positive. That is.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Parker said:
Well his fastest (non TT) time up there was in 2009 when he was long past his best. So you work it out for yourself.
No

What about Pantani and Ullrich. Didnt try either?
 

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