CN Best Team Bike 2011

[Spider1964]

Hate to break it to you but Peter Parker is fictional

OK... riiight... guess I better break it to my kids that Dad is an apparition. You obviously don't do nicknames that are a play on surnames? Now be a good boy and go back to the clinic and continue getting baited by BPC and Polish

 

[Notso Swift]

LOL Classic

 

[Benotti69]

OK... riiight... guess I better break it to my kids that Dad is an apparition. You obviously don't do nicknames that are a play on surnames? Now be a good boy and go back to the clinic and continue getting baited by BPC and Polish

Kappppooooowwww......shot down in the Bikes & Gear.....holy cow that is gonna hurt in the morning.

 

[karlboss]

Well, there are also people who aren't convinced global warming is real, Obama is American, or that people landed on the moon.

I hope you were joking with that post. If not, I'll refer you to the victories the Colnago C40 or the Time VXRS Ulteam have racked up. Maybe we can remember together how QuickStep, upon taking the $$ and switching to Specialized, requested Time forks on their new Specialized bikes.

lol, I should have explained, but i was pushed for time.
Find any tech tests, these bikes are relatively heavy and flexible, and expensive. Colnago started well with the c40, and equally time with their lugged frame, but then they seemed to stagnate. The geometry is tested over time and can't be questioned, but they've fallen behind in my opinion.
In fact if you want to point me to the victories then it's specialized, giant, trek and cannondale for 2011.
So this is where you all tell me that it's the man not the bike, it's not just about weight and stiffness and you are right, but in my opinion time, and colnago haven't kept up. Having said, that really only means they aren't using monocoques and have kept their tube diameters smaller, which appeals to all the traditionalists.
For reference, I'll take the SL3 of the venge, the r series over the s series cervelos, and f over ar for felt. Given an unlimited budget there's a good chance I'd buy a storck.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

lol, I should have explained, but i was pushed for time.
Find any tech tests, these bikes are relatively heavy and flexible, and expensive. Colnago started well with the c40, and equally time with their lugged frame, but then they seemed to stagnate. The geometry is tested over time and can't be questioned, but they've fallen behind in my opinion.
In fact if you want to point me to the victories then it's specialized, giant, trek and cannondale for 2011.
So this is where you all tell me that it's the man not the bike, it's not just about weight and stiffness and you are right, but in my opinion time, and colnago haven't kept up. Having said, that really only means they aren't using monocoques and have kept their tube diameters smaller, which appeals to all the traditionalists.
For reference, I'll take the SL3 of the venge, the r series over the s series cervelos, and f over ar for felt. Given an unlimited budget there's a good chance I'd buy a storck.

Show us these tech tests, scratch that, go ride one then tell us what you think. Reviews are for punters. Btw I'm 180lbs and built like a hockey player, I cannot flex a C59, and the frame weighs 950g, the one I rode was just a hair over 16lbs 58cm, that's heavy? Fallen behind, haven't kept up with what? The only reason you say that is because Ernesto isn't sponsoring half the peloton like he did for many years.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

lol, I should have explained, but i was pushed for time.
Find any tech tests, these bikes are relatively heavy and flexible, and expensive. Colnago started well with the c40, and equally time with their lugged frame, but then they seemed to stagnate. The geometry is tested over time and can't be questioned, but they've fallen behind in my opinion.

These bikes consistently receive stellar reviews. I suppose if by "stagnate" you mean they haven't moved the ball sideways in an effort to market to suckers who believe "latest" and "greatest" are synonymous, then, yes, Colnago and Time haven't kept up with Specialized and Trek. Colnago and Time certainly haven't been able to match Trek's amazing ability to replicate the riding qualities of wood in a carbon fiber frame.

Monocoque frames are super easy and super cheap to produce. That's the advancement. That's why you see Specialized coming in relatively few sizes. Make a few molds, slap a "McLaren" sticker on there, and presto!, people think you've reinvented the bicycle.

 

[Benotti69]

That's why you see Specialized coming in relatively few sizes. Make a few molds, slap a "McLaren" sticker on there, and presto!, IDIOTS think you've reinvented the bicycle.

Sorry Moose a small correction

 

[karlboss]

Show us these tech tests, scratch that, go ride one then tell us what you think. Reviews are for punters. Btw I'm 180lbs and built like a hockey player, I cannot flex a C59, and the frame weighs 950g, the one I rode was just a hair over 16lbs 58cm, that's heavy? Fallen behind, haven't kept up with what? The only reason you say that is because Ernesto isn't sponsoring half the peloton like he did for many years.

If I had the opportunity I would ride one, and I may love the feel, and I agree that would change everything. So you may now write me off as not having ridden them hence I don't know what I'm talking about.

As for the tests I saw, they were in tour magazin some 5 years ago, and curiously these marquee companies haven't appeared since, something I'm suspicious of. Though a valid reason is people like myself putting too much weight on these numbers.

Everyone flexes everything they ride, the question is how much. The feeling of stiffness is somewhat subjective, I'll take the lab table stiffness test...until I can ride one.

Stellar reviews based on ride tests I don't buy, lab tests I do. There are far too many "accelerates like a rocket" reviews especially for anything expensive. Doesn't mean they aren't good, but there's no differentiation in these reviews, remember the ever consistent 4 jersey reviews from cyclingnews?

Lugged frames are just as easy as moncoque, just less efficient in terms of material use. Easier to customise though. So if you want to offer more sizes, and not spend money on full molds it's a good option.

If sponsorship was the question why would i choose storck?

The companies with which they haven't kept up with are not trek specialized, cervelo, and giant. Think Stork, Canyon, Simplon. Though Canyon lost their way making something "pretty".

Personally I'm riding a velocite, and when I called and spoke with their engineers about a bike (how is that for service? admittedly it wasa fluke) I bought their "superceded" model. That was my choice, they assured me their new model is superior.

I remember you guys slamming halo bikes, what the hell is a c59 at 5000USD frame and fork?

 

[LugHugger]

If I had the opportunity I would ride one, and I may love the feel, and I agree that would change everything. So you may now write me off as not having ridden them hence I don't know what I'm talking about.

As for the tests I saw, they were in tour magazin some 5 years ago, and curiously these marquee companies haven't appeared since, something I'm suspicious of. Though a valid reason is people like myself putting too much weight on these numbers.

Everyone flexes everything they ride, the question is how much. The feeling of stiffness is somewhat subjective, I'll take the lab table stiffness test...until I can ride one.

Stellar reviews based on ride tests I don't buy, lab tests I do. There are far too many "accelerates like a rocket" reviews especially for anything expensive. Doesn't mean they aren't good, but there's no differentiation in these reviews, remember the ever consistent 4 jersey reviews from cyclingnews?

Lugged frames are just as easy as moncoque, just less efficient in terms of material use. Easier to customise though. So if you want to offer more sizes, and not spend money on full molds it's a good option.

If sponsorship was the question why would i choose storck?

The companies with which they haven't kept up with are not trek specialized, cervelo, and giant. Think Stork, Canyon, Simplon. Though Canyon lost their way making something "pretty".

Personally I'm riding a velocite, and when I called and spoke with their engineers about a bike (how is that for service? admittedly it wasa fluke) I bought their "superceded" model. That was my choice, they assured me their new model is superior.

I remember you guys slamming halo bikes, what the hell is a c59 at 5000USD frame and fork?

I don't think that many people here would cast doubts on your choice of Storck if you felt it was the best fit for your purposes. Indeed, it seems to me that most of the posters in this thread would congratulate you on choosing a craftsman made frame over a pop out.

And again, most posters acknowledge that Colnago, Time, Cyfac etc have a top of the range craftsman-made frameset which might be built into a 'halo' bike. But most doubt how the price tags of the Venge or S5ca of Felt can be justified given their lack of pedigree and funky looks and geometry. I'm sorry but Canyon and Simplon whilst nice enough bikes are simply not in the same ball park as the frames we are discussing here.

 

[karlboss]

I don't think that many people here would cast doubts on your choice of Storck if you felt it was the best fit for your purposes. Indeed, it seems to me that most of the posters in this thread would congratulate you on choosing a craftsman made frame over a pop out.

And again, most posters acknowledge that Colnago, Time, Cyfac etc have a top of the range craftsman-made frameset which might be built into a 'halo' bike. But most doubt how the price tags of the Venge or S5ca of Felt can be justified given their lack of pedigree and funky looks and geometry. I'm sorry but Canyon and Simplon whilst nice enough bikes are simply not in the same ball park as the frames we are discussing here.

Fit is all important, agreed. Get your connection points where you need them and go from there. Geometry is next most important, it's how you, in your position, are then connected to the road.

Storck are monocoques and hence how are they not a pop out, just because they make less?

Canyon not in the same ballpark, Why not? note my comments were in reference to the old cf ultimate, the new one ridden by Omega pharma isn't the same and certainly not the aero road, though I am interested in the reversible drop out.

I guess you've taken my "not convinced by the credibility" statement, and read that i think these bikes are rubbish or worse than others, it means I'm not convinced. Maybe a test ride would sort that out

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I remember you guys slamming halo bikes, what the hell is a c59 at 5000USD frame and fork?

That article was about the big brands, Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cervelo, Felt, Cannondale. Sure a C59 or EPQ is pretty tax, but you compare what you're getting for your money from the big brands at the same price points it's not even close to the options you get from Colnago, or any other custom carbon frame builder out there, Parlee, Cyfac, or your Stork for that matter.

Sure I'll write you off if you've never ridden the bikes we're talking about, that's easy. Comparing stats and reviews online isn't experience, but that goes without being said. You should take into consideration actually getting on a bike to see for yourself before you 'claim' something about it. I didn't think I'd like the ride of a Giant TCR Advance due to how absolutely hideous it looks, but it's one of the best big brand road racers being made right now. Would I buy one? HELL NO!!! Too damn fugly in every which way.

 

[42x16ss]

That article was about the big brands, Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cervelo, Felt, Cannondale. Sure a C59 or EPQ is pretty tax, but you compare what you're getting for your money from the big brands at the same price points it's not even close to the options you get from Colnago, or any other custom carbon frame builder out there, Parlee, Cyfac, or your Stork for that matter.

Sure I'll write you off if you've never ridden the bikes we're talking about, that's easy. Comparing stats and reviews online isn't experience, but that goes without being said. You should take into consideration actually getting on a bike to see for yourself before you 'claim' something about it. I didn't think I'd like the ride of a Giant TCR Advance due to how absolutely hideous it looks, but it's one of the best big brand road racers being made right now. Would I buy one? HELL NO!!! Too damn fugly in every which way.

Agree with you on the Giant there. The new TCR Adv. SL is an amazing frame, Giant have REALLY upped their game in the last few years in terms of stiffness and handling.

Still not good value compared to smaller brands and only available in what, 5-6 sizes? Quite a few people I know who ride them really had to tinker with their setup to get the right position.

Then there's the looks....

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Agree with you on the Giant there. The new TCR Adv. SL is an amazing frame, Giant have REALLY upped their game in the last few years in terms of stiffness and handling.

Still not good value compared to smaller brands and only available in what, 5-6 sizes? Quite a few people I know who ride them really had to tinker with their setup to get the right position.

Then there's the looks....

I just think it's all too funny that somebody posts "not convinced by the cred" of something, then we come to learn they've never even tried the product. WTF is happening to the Bikes & Gear section? This used to be my little oasis of like minded and knowledgeable people sharing ideas and experiences, now it's catching some sickness from places like The Clinic.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

So you may now write me off as not having ridden them hence I don't know what I'm talking about.

Consider it done.

 

[BroDeal]

Consider it done.

I love how he assumes that stiffness is the be all and end all of frame quality. A frame that is too stiff can be made out of any material. I can tell you from riding a bunch of different tri bikes over the last two years that bikes that are too stiff ride like ass. Guess what happens when a stock frame from one of the big manufacturers has to be made so it stands up to abuse by someone who weighs 50% more than I do? Yup, it rides like ass.

I also love how he places Cervelo as one of the companies that Colnago and others have not kept up with. He must mean another Cervelo. The one I am familiar with has crap quality and crap geometry.

 

[karlboss]

Brodeal reread my post, I specifically state that it is not cervelo who has left colnago behind. When did I assume stiffness was the be all and end all? I said I'll take a lab test of stiffness over feel(as a measure of stiffness), and that other frames in a lab have tested stiffer.
42x16, Giants are ugly (subjective, though I won't disagree), but rides well and folk need to tinker with their position? Isn't that part of any new bike with different geometry? If it doesn't fit don't buy it.
RDV, What are you getting when you hit $5000 colnago vs some of the others...more size options and the possibility of better fit, which is definitely worth something. However I really don't see the difference if they fit you. If it fits and has a ride you like, then what is the difference between dropping 5000 on a colnago or a trek? Name only
If I had tried something, then I wouldn't need to be convinced of the credibility of it now would I? I've met enough people riding what ever bike compare it to a colnago, time, look, (never cyfac or parlee admittedly), both negatively and positively that I remain sceptical. I've spent some time on a titanium colnago, fit perfectly, but I preferred my kuota kharma. Each to their own, i remain unconvinced and thank you for your convincing arguments.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Brodeal reread my post, I specifically state that it is not cervelo who has left colnago behind. When did I assume stiffness was the be all and end all? I said I'll take a lab test of stiffness over feel(as a measure of stiffness), and that other frames in a lab have tested stiffer.
42x16, Giants are ugly (subjective, though I won't disagree), but rides well and folk need to tinker with their position? Isn't that part of any new bike with different geometry? If it doesn't fit don't buy it.
RDV, What are you getting when you hit $5000 colnago vs some of the others...more size options and the possibility of better fit, which is definitely worth something. However I really don't see the difference if they fit you. If it fits and has a ride you like, then what is the difference between dropping 5000 on a colnago or a trek? Name only
If I had tried something, then I wouldn't need to be convinced of the credibility of it now would I? I've met enough people riding what ever bike compare it to a colnago, time, look, (never cyfac or parlee admittedly), both negatively and positively that I remain sceptical. I've spent some time on a titanium colnago, fit perfectly, but I preferred my kuota kharma. Each to their own, i remain unconvinced and thank you for your convincing arguments.

Colnago or Trek? Jesus man, do some history and tell me who you'd rather give $5k to. Someone who's been designing and building road race machines for almost 60 years in every material, or a huge corporation who's biggest seller is comfort hybrids?

We remain unconvinced as well, might have something to do with your admitted limited credibility on this subject.

 

[BroDeal]

Brodeal reread my post, I specifically state that it is not cervelo who has left colnago behind.

Sorry, I msread. What you really wrote was that bikes made in german speaking countries have left everyone behind.

 

[42x16ss]

Giants are ugly (subjective, though I won't disagree), but rides well and folk need to tinker with their position? Isn't that part of any new bike with different geometry? If it doesn't fit don't buy it.

Well, wait a second here. This shouldn't have to be the case. The difference between each size for Giant (and most other major manufacturers) is quite large, because they make the most profit by building the smallest range of sizes possible.

This means that you get a surprisingly large number of customers who end up having to change bars, stems and even seatposts because they are trying to cater for too many people with one size of bike.

For most of us here - who would by the frame and then fit it out with our own selection of parts - that isn't an issue, but for the average punter it either gets very expensive, or ends up with a rider in a compromised position. Quite often it's the latter, because a surprising amount of riders lack knowledge on proper fit.

 

[Parera]

Well, wait a second here. This shouldn't have to be the case. The difference between each size for Giant (and most other major manufacturers) is quite large, because they make the most profit by building the smallest range of sizes possible.

This means that you get a surprisingly large number of customers who end up having to change bars, stems and even seatposts because they are trying to cater for too many people with one size of bike.

For most of us here - who would by the frame and then fit it out with our own selection of parts - that isn't an issue, but for the average punter it either gets very expensive, or ends up with a rider in a compromised position. Quite often it's the latter, because a surprising amount of riders lack knowledge on proper fit.

Yep, and you end up being forced to use stupid stem lengths & rise to get a proper hand position. I'm from the camp that thinks -17 stems are ugly and ridiculous, but somewhat needed with these stupid long headtubes. Sort of like the critique of Cervelo, if your pro guys are riding tiny frames and still slamming their super long stem, you have poor geometry, end of discussion.

 

[Jukebox]

Colnago and Time certainly haven't been able to match Trek's amazing ability to replicate the riding qualities of wood in a carbon fiber frame.

LMAO, awesome.

I can agree wholeheartedly with this statement as a Time owner. The ride you get from a company that makes its own carbon fiber vs one that buys aerospace scraps is pretty big. I remember when I was replacing my old S-works Tarmac with my Time RX Instinct I was a little worried about the extra weight and supposed decrease in stiffness. You can't feel it on the road, you'll never get dropped if your top shelf, well engineered carbon wonderbike is 2% less stiff than another well engineered carbon wonderbike. You'll get dropped because you don't have the legs. Oh, and the Time blows anything else I've ever ridden out of the water with the exception of a Moots Vamoots RSL, that bike was very special too.

Here's a good discussion of Cervelo and their geometry: http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/gloating-24671.html

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I love how he assumes that stiffness is the be all and end all of frame quality. A frame that is too stiff can be made out of any material. I can tell you from riding a bunch of different tri bikes over the last two years that bikes that are too stiff ride like ass. Guess what happens when a stock frame from one of the big manufacturers has to be made so it stands up to abuse by someone who weighs 50% more than I do? Yup, it rides like ass.

I also love how he places Cervelo as one of the companies that Colnago and others have not kept up with. He must mean another Cervelo. The one I am familiar with has crap quality and crap geometry.

Ditto, I am so sick of people holding up Cervelo as some benchmark of quality. Crappy geometry, crappy finish, but great marketing. I have no desire to ride one of their bikes.

 

[veganrob]

Ditto, I am so sick of people holding up Cervelo as some benchmark of quality. Crappy geometry, crappy finish, but great marketing. I have no desire to ride one of their bikes.

Got that right. Cervelo is junk. Just plain pure junk. Used to sell them so I know. We had far more failures of their frames percentage wise than any other brand. I love how Gerard defends the new geometry as that is how people are supposed to ride. Give me a break.

 

[42x16ss]

Got that right. Cervelo is junk. Just plain pure junk. Used to sell them so I know. We had far more failures of their frames percentage wise than any other brand. I love how Gerard defends the new geometry as that is how people are supposed to ride. Give me a break.

What baffles me with Cervelo is that they used to make some incredible looking and riding bikes that were well built and reliable right up to the Prodigy, R 2.5 and the original Soloist.

Now it's like they feel they must do something different in order to increase their market share. They had it right 6-7 years ago, now they are trying to answer questions nobody has asked.

 

[Soloist]

Colnago or Trek? Jesus man, do some history and tell me who you'd rather give $5k to. Someone who's been designing and building road race machines for almost 60 years in every material, or a huge corporation who's biggest seller is comfort hybrids?

We remain unconvinced as well, might have something to do with your admitted limited credibility on this subject.

How about neither? Moreover, the only $5,000 Colnago is one built in Taiwan. A $2,500 aluminum S1 will ride circles around that little Italian-Asian gem. The trashing of Cervelo and the like on this thread is interesting. I do have some doubts about their quality control when it comes to carbon frames. As an owner of the original Soloist, I can attest that it is built right, and is a damn fine bike. I rode some of Italy's finest for 15 years, and after one ride on the Soloist, I knew it was a better bike. You can talk about falling for marketing and hype when it comes to the latest aero frame from Cervelo (or Specialized, Scott, or Ridley for that matter). However, what about falling for the marketing and hype when it comes to buying an Italian "work of art". Colnagos are good bikes, but dear Lord they aren't worth the dollars that Ernesto wants for them. If you want to spend $9,000 on a lugged carbon frame with spiders painted on it, and because Merckx rode one, go ahead, but don't scream about all the suckers falling for marketing hype.

Also, the aero thing isn't really hype. If you think so, then do your next time trial on your Colnago with spiders on it. Just be prepared to get passed by riders on aero bikes. There is an upside, however. The more you get passed, the more people will appreciate the cool spiders, and what is, effectively, a $3,000 paint job.