Cobo Talk Only

[luckyboy]

Was it more ridiculous than 7 Tour wins in a row, Heras, Landis Tour 06, Basso Giro 06, Astana Vuelta 06, CSF-Navigare Giro 08, Ricco + Piepoli's various performances?

 

[El Pistolero]

So he didn't respond to EPO or blood doping, only CERA?

Blood doping doesn't make you that good in a one week stage race

EPO at that time could only have been micro dosed. Cera= undetectable.

 

[roundabout]

Was it more ridiculous than 7 Tour wins in a row, Heras, Landis Tour 06, Basso Giro 06, Astana Vuelta 06, CSF-Navigare Giro 08, Ricco + Piepoli's various performances?

I don't know, I haven't retested the samples.

But seriously, I'm not sure where you're going with this. The performances you listed were ridiculous and so was Cobo's. Splitting hairs doesn't matter.

 

[Walkman]

Blood doping doesn't make you that good in a one week stage race

EPO at that time could only have been micro dosed. Cera= undetectable.

Didn't CERA "hit the market" late 2007 / early 2008?

 

[luckyboy]

Was CERA even out in early 2007? Mircera was approved for use in the EU in July, and was available in Europe in early 2008. And WADA was working with Roche Pharmaceuticals on testing before it was released.

Don't think I've ever heard of a company apart from Roche manufacturing it either.

 

[maltiv]

I did mean in cycling though

It's stage 5 of the Vuelta ciclista al Pais Vasco 2007. Or any stage of that stage race really.

I remember Mads Kaggestad said that was the most ridiculous thing he had ever seen. While they were going fast uphill and everyone was suffering, Cobo was just sitting there smiling and joking around, even trying to converse with people while climbing (obviously, they were unable to respond). He made the race look like a joke.

 

[El Pistolero]

Was CERA even out in early 2007? Mircera was approved for use in the EU in July, and was available in Europe in early 2008. And WADA was working with Roche Pharmaceuticals on testing before it was released.

Don't think I've ever heard of a company apart from Roche manufacturing it either.

Don't know what Cobo was on really, but don't dopers usually get their hands on stuff before it hits the market?

Whatever it was, it was no clean performance at all.

 

[happychappy]

The mighty Cobo needs to refill his suitcase of courage, he had to resort to getting motorpaced at the end there!

 

[Mellow Velo]

The mighty Cobo needs to refill his suitcase of courage, he had to resort to getting motorpaced at the end there!

Don't forget the helicopter drafting, too.

El Pistolero throwing stones from his glass house again?

 

[WorldsGreatest]

both are doped out of their eyeballs. plain and simple.

 

[therealtimshady]

just because cobo was in a dodgy team it doesnt mean he is - look at BMC this year with their dodgy activities and the fact that they are almost phonak reincarnate and is anyone claiming evans is dirty ( a few maybe are).

clean until proven otherwise with cobo (and evans)

 

[Duartista]

I don't know, I haven't retested the samples.

But seriously, I'm not sure where you're going with this. The performances you listed were ridiculous and so was Cobo's. Splitting hairs doesn't matter.

It's just a response to the 'most doped performance of the decade' comment, which seemed rather arbitrary.

Generally, I think riders who put in the odd spectacular performance get more stick, probably undeservedly, than riders who were consistently ridiculous. For example, Perez is remembered as a crazy doper whilst Heras is remembered as a great climber who doped, whilst for all we know, the 2004 Vuelta was the only time Perez had access to the same kind of deluxe programme to which Heras was accustomed.

 

[hrotha]

Generally, I think riders who put in the odd spectacular performance get more stick, probably undeservedly, than riders who were consistently ridiculous. For example, Perez is remembered as a crazy doper whilst Heras is remembered as a great climber who doped, whilst for all we know, the 2004 Vuelta was the only time Perez had access to the same kind of deluxe programme to which Heras was accustomed.

+1 billion

Consider Kohl. In his case, if we believe him, the 2008 TdF *was* the first time he was on a deluxe program. But nearly everywhere he's considered one of the most scandalous dopers out there.

 

[Duartista]

+1 billion

Consider Kohl. In his case, if we believe him, the 2008 TdF *was* the first time he was on a deluxe program. But nearly everywhere he's considered one of the most scandalous dopers out there.

This is why I've been trying to defend a Cobo a bit. Whilst I don't believe he's clean, I think his inconsistency is more down to what seem to be genuine problems with depression and lack of motivation than anything else. This is what makes his good performances stand out so much.

Edit: BTW, I don't suppose he's made any more appearances on Foro de ciclismo?

 

[Swede1]

Did you see how exhausted Cobo looked at the end? He ain't fully doped.

 

[hrotha]

Edit: BTW, I don't suppose he's made any more appearances on Foro de ciclismo?

If he had, I imagine he'd be pretty depressed now.

 

[roundabout]

This is why I've been trying to defend a Cobo a bit. Whilst I don't believe he's clean, I think his inconsistency is more down to what seem to be genuine problems with depression and lack of motivation than anything else. This is what makes his good performances stand out so much.

Edit: BTW, I don't suppose he's made any more appearances on Foro de ciclismo?

My problem with Cobo's so called good performances is that they sometimes come at the same time as good performances from his team mates.

Castilla y Leon 2007 - Cobo 3rd, Koldo Gil 2nd and climbing as well as Contador on the MTF

Pais Vasco same year - Koldo Gil, Marchante and Cobo were among the strongest.

Urkiola - same story

2008 better in that regard but when he was really flying 2 team mates tested positive who had won 3 stages up to that point

And this year there's a general Geox revival with Menchov and de la Fuente around stages 13-15.

I am not saying that it means he is dirty but it's a bit curious that he usually comes out of depression when the team is doing well.

 

[Winterfold]

Today he looked properly cooked. How he should have looked on Sunday.

Very impressed at how he held back once Froome was gone and then got back on, I dont think you can buy that kind of racing nous in the Clinic.

 

[Duartista]

My problem with Cobo's so called good performances is that they sometimes come at the same time as good performances from his team mates.

Castilla y Leon 2007 - Cobo 3rd, Koldo Gil 2nd and climbing as well as Contador on the MTF

Pais Vasco same year - Koldo Gil, Marchante and Cobo were among the strongest.

Urkiola - same story

2008 better in that regard but when he was really flying 2 team mates tested positive who had won 3 stages up to that point

And this year there's a general Geox revival with Menchov and de la Fuente around stages 13-15.

I am not saying that it means he is dirty but it's a bit curious that he usually comes out of depression when the team is doing well.

Looking at that list, and considering what became of Gil, Gomez Marchante, Ricco and Piepoli, I would be rather worried if I was Menchov or De la Fuente! The curse of Cobo...

Seriously though, whilst Menchov looked good during the last few stages, overall he has been some way off his Giro 2009/TDF 2011 form. De La Fuente... I'll agree looked better than he has done for some time.

 

[webvan]

From http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cobo-celebrates-his-vuelta-win-in-madrid

"Cobo claimed that his Vuelta win did not happen by chance. "I've known that I was in a good shape since the Tour of Burgos at the beginning of August and I had two weeks after that to improve my condition," he said."

"Preparation" ?

 

[hrotha]

That doesn't mean anything. Clean riders still prepare for races and can improve their condition over two weeks, and doped riders don't go around dropping hints for the astute cycling fans out there to pick up. You're only seeing what you want to see in that quote.

 

[filipo]

Toeing.

Think soldiers lined up on parade. You get their toes on a line.

Sorry this is just a bugbear of mine.

+ 5 billion. Particularly when I read it on Cycling "News" and other wannabe-writer sites...

 

[Benotti69]

Geox might not sponsor Gianetti for 2012, probably waiting to see if Cobo gets done or not!

 

[webvan]

That article on CN is not very clear, they have a two year contact so 2012 seems to be covered. Apparently what they'll decide at the end of 2011 is whether to continue AFTER 2012.

 

[shalgo]

Should we read anything into the fact that Cobo has been omitted from the new WT rankings? Shouldn't he have 170 points just for winning the Vuelta on GC? Note that Froome is 25th.

http://www.uciprotour.com/templates/BUILTIN-NOFRAMES/Template3/layout.asp?MenuId=MTYwNzk&LangId=1

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gilbert-takes-over-worldtour-rankings-lead-from-evans