Comprehensive Climbers Ranking

[Peyresourde]

Relative performance already outweighs absolute performance.

Tip: It is called results.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

This is definitely interesting. You’ve put a lot of thought and hard work into it. Thank you! It seems like the big gap that people are kind of dancing around is relative finish. Like there should be deductions based on gap to the leader and/or additions for winning with a big margin. Perennial finishers in the 5-10 range just seem like they shouldn’t be ranked above winners. Like does anyone really believe Richie Porte was better than 2018-2022 Roglic? Same with the Nibali discussion above.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Relative performance already outweighs absolute performance.

Tip: It is called results.

Did I miss that results are a factor in this ranking?

 

[Pozzovivo]

Did I miss that results are a factor in this ranking?

The results are first converted into time on the final climb, which is then converted into w/kg values, which are then adjusted for factors we believe are important and labeled “performance,” which is then converted into a ranking, which in practice a new set of results.

 

[Peyresourde]

This ranking is based purely on w/kg performances with some adjustments for conditions. Many of the discussions hinge on the fact that this is not enough to define how good a climber someone is. And I agree with that.

I privately have a second ranking where I also adjust for these two categories:
Attack (subcategories: Spirit, Change of Pace, (uphill) Sprint
Consistency (subcategories: climb types, stage hardness, stage to stage, season(s))

These aspects combined are easily worth ~ 0.2 W/kg (or even more in extreme cases).

Some riders like Armstrong or also Pogacar and Roglic from (19-22) then shoot up the rankings, while riders like Ullrich, Sastre and Quintana suffer.

But I probably won't publish that ranking as it is even more subjective and I instead invite everyone to draw their own conclusions from my 'pure w/kg' ranking

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

This ranking is based purely on w/kg performances with some adjustments for conditions. Many of the discussions hinge on the fact that this is not enough to define how a good a climber someone is. And I agree with that.

I privately have a second ranking where I also adjust for these two categories:
Attack (subcategories: Spirit, Change of Pace, (uphill) Sprint
Consistency (subcategories: climb types, stage hardness, stage to stage, season(s))

These aspects are combined are easily worth ~ 0.2 W/kg (or even more in extreme cases).

Some riders Armstrong or also Pogacar and Roglic from (19-22) then shoot up the rankings, while riders like Ullrich, Sastre and Quintana suffer.

But I probably won't publish that ranking as it is even more subjective and I instead invite everyone to draw their own conclusions from my 'pure w/kg' ranking

I totally hear you. If you make too many adjustments and assumptions it almost gets to the point where we might as well just make up our own rankings. A lot of what you've done here makes sense. In terms of the eye test and what I've witnessed, adjustments that result in Lance, Pogacar, and Roglic jumping up and Saste and Quintana dropping off makes sense to me.

 

[Peyresourde]

Perhaps one of the most anticipated parts of the ranking is finally upon us: Roglic vs. Evenepoel vs. Almeida. And we cannot forget Roglic's old 'historical rider comparison' Tony Rominger. Not only are they close in the Alphabet, their palmares and their career trajectory, they even score almost exactly the same in my ranking!!
Tier 4 'Giro/Vuelta Champs' contains only a single Tour winner despite including a 'who is who' of top climbers (this is the least of all tiers -->maybe you would rather be a worse climber??):

Tier 4 (85-90)

Evgeni Berzin | 90.0 | PB: 103 (0): 7.62 W/kg for 11:55 on Arrate Usartza (Euskal Bizikleta 1995)
Tony Rominger | 88.5 | PB: 98 (0): 7.01 W/kg for 22:51 on Selvino ITT (Giro 1995)
Remco Evenepoel | 88.1 | PB: 94 (+2): 6.41 W/kg for 42:41 on Plateau de Beille (Tour 2024)
Primoz Roglic | 87.7 | PB: 92 (-3): 6.90 W/kg for 23:55 on Moncalvillo (Vuelta 2024)
Roberto Heras | 86.6 | PB: 92 (-1): 6.46 W/kg for 41:00 on Angliru (Vuelta 2000)
Joao Almeida | 86.6 | PB: 91 (+2): 6.38 W/kg for 41:10 on Angliru (Vuelta 2025)

Luc Leblanc | 86.2 | PB: 99 (-1): 6.76 W/kg for 35:19 on Hautacam (Tour 1994)
Fernando Escartin | 85.3 | PB: 94 (-2): 6.91 W/kg for 25:09 on Covadonga (Vuelta 1997)
Alberto Contador | 85.2 | PB: 98 (+1): 7.07 W/kg for 20:40 on Verbier (Tour 2009)
Ivan Gotti | 85.1 | PB: 96 (+4): 6.43 W/kg for 42:07 on Mortirolo (Giro 1996)

Notes:
1) Rominger still ahead of Roglic. To my knowledge, he was the first rider to really explode the watts on a road stage, namely in the Pyrenees in 1993 on Pla d'Adet and Tourmalet. There he even put Indurain under real pressure, who had to teleport down the descent to catch Rominger.
2) Evenepoel, Roglic and Almeida very close. We will see what the future brings.

3)'Hautacam specialist' Luc Leblanc and 'King of the Mortirolo' Ivan Gotti got an extra boost on their favourite climb (a bit similar to Pantani on Alpe d'Huez).
4) Heras and Simoni are basically mirror-images of each other. Both active in the same time period, they could only deliver top performances in their home country. But both have exactly one great performance in the other's country. On both occasions, they (almost) crested the top together (Mortirolo 1999, Lagos de Covadonga 2005)

Bonus: Vingegaard (2021-2023): 88.1
Pogacar (2019-2023): 86.8

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Please rerun this with an adjustment that puts Primoz ahead of Remco. Surely consistent unexplained meltdowns on big climbing days should be a factor? Make it happen!

 

[hayneplane]

Instinctively Almeida above Contador just feels so wrong on an aesthetic basis.