Comprehensive Climbers Ranking

[Peyresourde]

On average right, not peaks?

Yes, these are weighted averages of their 10 best performances, but all my numbers (also the single climb performances in the OP) can be compared the same way to see the difference in w/kg. I already mentioned it somewhere before, but the difference between Pogacar and Evenepoel has consistently been around 0.4 w/kg since 2024 when both were in shape and went all out.

 

[Panda Claws]

He probably doesn't show up in the dataset but did Gilbert really become that much worse on hills after 2011?

 

[Peyresourde]

He probably doesn't show up in the dataset but did Gilbert really become that much worse on hills after 2011?

I don't have Gilbert in my dataset. The Cauberg is really too short to anlyze with my method. But he could not repeat his success in the Ardennes after 2011, so I assume he got worse. I think he also was substantially heavier in some springs in order to compete in the cobble classics.

 

[canina82]

Yes, these are weighted averages of their 10 best performances, but all my numbers (also the single climb performances in the OP) can be compared the same way to see the difference in w/kg. I already mentioned it somewhere before, but the difference between Pogacar and Evenepoel has consistently been around 0.4 w/kg since 2024 when both were in shape and went all out.

Maybe just in 2024. In 2025, I don't believe Remco has a single performance "just" 0.4 w/kg lower than Pogacar's performance.

 

[Berniece]

Maybe just in 2024. In 2025, I don't believe Remco has a single performance "just" 0.4 w/kg lower than Pogacar's performance.

In 2025 you can only compare climbs in Lombardia...

 

[Krzysztof_O]

On a 10% gradient 30 minute climb, 0.1 w/kg equals around 30 seconds difference (same amount of draft). On shallower climbs of 6-7 % a 30 seconds difference would be 0.12-0.13 w/kg difference.

So 0.4 w/kg would be a difference of ~90-120 seconds on a 30 minute climb.

These are just rough estimates that depend on draft, wind and climbing speed etc.

Pogacar put almost 80 seconds into Roglic on a 20-minute climb of Peyreguades (fresh TT effort, it was considered a good performance by Roglic), which is more or less consistent with those w/kg differences. OTOH only 68 seconds on a fresh 55-minute Ventoux climb was much smaller than average (maybe rest day after Pyrenees did its job, while Peyreguades was after difficult Hautacam day).

 

[Peyresourde]

Pogacar put almost 80 seconds into Roglic on a 20-minute climb of Peyreguades (fresh TT effort, it was considered a good performance by Roglic), which is more or less consistent with those w/kg differences. OTOH only 68 seconds on a fresh 55-minute Ventoux climb was much smaller than average (maybe rest day after Pyrenees did its job, while Peyreguades was after difficult Hautacam day).

We have already speculated about Ventoux (and longer climbs in general) erlier in the thread. The w/kg differences also do not specifically refer to fresh efforts, where the gap between the two should be slightly smaller on average anyway. Possible reason for smaller differences on Ventoux:

-Roglic had his best day of the year, better than Peyragudes in my Index
-Pogacar did not go as fast as possible (irregular pacing) and probably had an average day
-Gaps on long climbs seem to be smaller in general (%-wise), especially on Ventoux where the first 10 minutes are always in a bunch. This already reduces the potential gaps at the end.
- Pogacar may be relatively worse on long climbs, while 20 minute efforts are his bread and butter

Edit: And if you just took the time from Vingegaard's attack, it would a 68 second gap on a ~23 minute effort.

 

[Red Rick]

Pogacar put almost 80 seconds into Roglic on a 20-minute climb of Peyreguades (fresh TT effort, it was considered a good performance by Roglic), which is more or less consistent with those w/kg differences. OTOH only 68 seconds on a fresh 55-minute Ventoux climb was much smaller than average (maybe rest day after Pyrenees did its job, while Peyreguades was after difficult Hautacam day).

Peyragudes also had shades of Combloux imo with riders below the top 3 especially being more affecting by fatigue and not doing great numbers

 

[Peyresourde]

Peyragudes also had shades of Combloux imo with riders below the top 3 especially being more affecting by fatigue and not doing great numbers

Yeah, TTs with climbs are really strange sometimes. many riders just can't perform on a similar level to a road stage. Peyragudes was a bit subpar from the other riders, but still an acceptable level. If you look at Combloux or also La Turbie in the Nice TT in 2024, the climbing level of many top 10 riders was absolutely horrible.

 

[canina82]

MTTs is where we see the w/kg freaks. I don't believe in fatigue specially when Roglic (who is, nowadays, the rider most affected by fatigue from the GC group) was clearly the third best. He gained 32" on Lipowitz after the first timing point. Lipo is known for being very resistant to fatigue. That's his main quality.
Pogacar and Vingegaard are just "that much better" than others IMO. I think Vingegaard was afraid to go all out in Mont Ventoux because he was afraid a similar scenario to PdB happened again.

 

[Peyresourde]

85% of Peyragudes was still a mountain TT, that's why watts were better than in more mixed TTs like Combloux and Nice. I also don't believe in fatigue (in this case), everyone (except for Lipowitz) was much better than the day before.
Red Bull probably also had the best set-up that day (TT-Bike almost on the weight limit without the space helmet) and Roglic was in the extensions the most.

 

[Netserk]

i know la plagne was a weird stage , very soft and a headwind on a not too steep gradient which made it quite tactical , but i think it also had big fingerprints from the day before all over it

which is also what i found so impressive from lipo

he didnt make it easy for himself on loze and yet he was also strong the next day