Congrats to Gerrans on MSR.... BUT

[pastronef]

Well done Gerro and great ride by Canc, he would be a two time MSR winner now if not for pesky Aussies

3 times , he won in 2008

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Finally the part about "I'm no sprinter..." was, and he stated this as well, conditioned by the fact that he is a climber: "Being a climber," Nibali said, "I can't be a sprinter as well."

 

[rhubroma]

You know there is a saying in Italian that says the exception confirms the rule.

In any case, Valverde doesn't win the sprint in Milano San Remo.

 

[RedZone]

You know there is a saying in Italian that says the exception confirms the rule.

In any case, Valverde doesn't win the sprint in Milano San Remo.

Against Gerrans and Cancellara? Id have my money on Valverde.

 

[function]

I think the entire peloton is aware by now that taking pulls with Cancellara is both very hard, and unnecessary if you want to win the race. The entire peloton, save for one or two stupid riders, would have ridden exactly the same way.

Why has doing 'work' turned into being stupid? Sometimes you just have to put in work even if it also is detrimental to your chances. e.g. 2008 Paris-Roubaix, the lead group was Cancellara, Boonen and Ballan. Both Ballan and Boonen contributed a lot to the group staying away. I wouldn't say they were stupid for doing so, incidentally Boonen won.

 

[hrotha]

I'm amazed by the notion that Gerrans, the faster of the three, would have been stupid to work his hardest to make sure the trio stayed away. And no, I don't buy the whole "if Gerrans took real turns, they'd be caught" thing.

 

[rhubroma]

Against Gerrans and Cancellara? Id have my money on Valverde.

I wasn't really thinking in those terms, but it's a distinct possibility.

Of course he'd have to get there first, though I suppose if Nibali was able to light fireworks, then the Spaniard would have been able to as well. Although he's not Italian, so Nibali was inspired by that which a rider such as Valverde perhaps wouldn't feel.

At any rate, normally a climber isn't fast in situations such as those in which Nibali found himself. Valverde is certainly exceptional in his camp in this regard, Nibali the norm.

 

[42x16ss]

I think Gerrans' win was legitimate, but riding like this he risks being flagged as a Pozzato in the peloton, thus ruining his future chances.

He normally doesn't though. Look back at the majority of his wins and you will see that they were usually solo or well timed attacks from the right breaks each time.

Maybe some forumites need to consider that if the same riders got into a break in the Ardennes classics it's likely that Gerrans and Cancellara would have had their roles reversed...

 

[595RED]

SCOTT spin doctors

Are the spin doctors at SCOTT for real on their front page advertising. "Just one year ago we were developing the Foil in the windtunnel to Dominate Milan San Remo in 2012" really guys dominate? and you did all that for MSR. ***** sake.

 

[greenedge]

Without canc those 2 never would have made it.

You don't know Freire might have just let them go- by getting Cancellara to pull ( like last year in P-R ) as he would not want to run the risk of him going on the flat.

 

[greenedge]

Two completely differnt riders: one a classics/time trial phenom, the other a Tour champion.

When did Lance ever attack once and win any classic? In fact the times he did go he either screwed up (Liege-Bastogne-Liege: post cancer), or else was out-foxed in the sprint finish (Liege-Bastogne-Liege, pre-cancer and Amstel Gold). And how is it even possible to compare l'Alpe d'Huez to the "The Muur," or the cobbles of Roubaix to Mont Ventoux?

Didn't he make an attack in one M-SR where he came 22nd and Sciandri came 3rd pre cancer??? He also won the WC.

 

[Polyarmour]

In my local Crit race I sometimes misjudge things and find myself on the front with one lap to go. Invariably I can't win from this position. If I pull over I get swamped by the peloton and lose position so I usually stay on the front as long as I can and go down in a blaze of glory. I had no idea that I was actually the moral winner of the race because I had dragged all those wheelsuckers to the line. Next time it happens I'm going to yell at them all to get off my wheel and put themselves into the wind just like me or their victory will feel empty and they won't be able to sleep at night. Unless of course I'm too puffed to say anything.

 

[hatcher]

Why has doing 'work' turned into being stupid? Sometimes you just have to put in work even if it also is detrimental to your chances. e.g. 2008 Paris-Roubaix, the lead group was Cancellara, Boonen and Ballan. Both Ballan and Boonen contributed a lot to the group staying away. I wouldn't say they were stupid for doing so, incidentally Boonen won.

Roubaix 2008 wasn't even close to the same situation as MSR. If they were minutes ahead, I'm sure Gerrans and Nibali would have contributed; 5 seconds lead with 3k to go, and sitting behind Cancellara is a bit different.

Working isn't stupid, but doing unnecessary work that lessens your chance of winning probably is.

 

[hrotha]

It was unnecessary work because Cancellara rode for 2nd by towing a faster guy to the finish line, though. Problem is, if Cancellara had decided he was not going to be taken advantage of, I bet Gerrans still wouldn't have ridden.

Don't take me wrong, it's a legitimate tactic by Gerrans and he won fair and square, but he's still a wheelsucker. It's just a matter of how much of a negative connotation you want to give to that term.

 

[hatcher]

It was unnecessary work because Cancellara rode for 2nd by towing a faster guy to the finish line, though. Problem is, if Cancellara had decided he was not going to be taken advantage of, I bet Gerrans still wouldn't have ridden.

Don't take me wrong, it's a legitimate tactic by Gerrans and he won fair and square, but he's still a wheelsucker. It's just a matter of how much of a negative connotation you want to give to that term.

Had it been anyone other than Cancellara I'd be more critical of Gerrans. Cancellara has just made it so easy for others to sit on. Had it been anyone other than Cancellara I bet Gerrans and Nibali both would have ridden.

 

[Machu Picchu]

Nibali stopped riding on the descent as he saw who had tagged along and knew his chances for the win had gone and so no longer contributed with the possibility that Sagan might make it back.

Gerrans held on during the descent and then felt no need to contribute to the stronger Cancellara knowing that he had the beating of him in the sprint, this may be seen as a negative tactic but it’s a legitimate one.

The only problem with this tactic is that you don’t want to strangle the break and end up getting caught by the bunch but Gerrans got it right and won what was in my eyes a disppointing Milan-San Remo.

 

[briztoon]

“Literally, he attacked us all the way down the descent – out of every corner. He was carrying a bit more corner speed than what I was able to. And then we got to the bottom and Fabian did one more ball-biting turn when we hit the flat and while he’s driving it like this he was also flickin’ the elbow. I was, like, ‘Uhm… I would come through but I’m basically not capable of coming through when you’re pulling that hard…"

http://www.ridemedia.com.au/?p=5499

 

[rhubroma]

It was unnecessary work because Cancellara rode for 2nd by towing a faster guy to the finish line, though. Problem is, if Cancellara had decided he was not going to be taken advantage of, I bet Gerrans still wouldn't have ridden.

Don't take me wrong, it's a legitimate tactic by Gerrans and he won fair and square, but he's still a wheelsucker. It's just a matter of how much of a negative connotation you want to give to that term.

Cancellara really had no other choice, no? It was either ride for 2nd or 10th.

Although there's a distinct possibility that he tried to convince himself he had at least a miniscule chance to win. Judging by the margin Gerrans had on the Swiss at the finish line, Sparticus was justified in his illusion. Racing the way he did, in any case kept the podium alive for all three. Gerrans and Nibali both had fast teammates in the immediate chase, so its logical they don't pull. Nibali was on the edge, anyway, and Gerrans apparently not much fresher.

The only thing moderately off-putting about what Gerrans said post-race, was that he thought perhaps Cancellara had underestimated him, this after Fabian basically served him the victory up on a plate. Well, if that were the case, than he should be ecstatic that he did, as it allowed him to win.

 

[hrotha]

Cancellara really had no other choice, no? It was either ride for 2nd or 10th.

You always have a choice. At last year's Paris-Roubaix he made a different choice, and many breakaways die a premature death because some riders don't want to do someone else's job.

If Cancellara had refused to tow Gerrans to the finish line, would Gerrans have acted the same way, or would he have cooperated? I don't care about Goss being behind, because at that point Gerrans was a much better option, as he was clearly the faster of the three (after 300 km, of course, Cancellara still had a chance), whereas Goss (who had real difficulties up the Poggio and only managed to be 15th, let us not forget) would have to deal with the likes of Sagan, Degenkolb and Freire, in a much less certain affair.

So Gerrans can't ride as fast as Cancellara on the flat. So what, he could still have given his all. We see that all the time: a climber and a rouleur in a break, the rouleur is more important to the success of the duo, but the climber still has to do his share, if only to allow the rouleur to catch his breath.

Had Cancellara refused to ride unless Gerrans went as hard as he, Gerrans would have been an idiot not to cooperate. If Fabian had done that, the three of them might have reached the finish line, and he might have won. That didn't happen, though, so it's Cancellara's fault that Gerrans didn't work, and Fabian did ride for 2nd instead of at least trying to bluff his way into 1st.

 

[function]

Roubaix 2008 wasn't even close to the same situation as MSR. If they were minutes ahead, I'm sure Gerrans and Nibali would have contributed; 5 seconds lead with 3k to go, and sitting behind Cancellara is a bit different.

Working isn't stupid, but doing unnecessary work that lessens your chance of winning probably is.

My point is that it may even be more dangerous working with someone like Cancellara in PR because he would have so many opportunities to attack and it would be even harder holding on. Even if Gerrans put in some hard pulls to maintain the groups advantage i would not call him stupid for doing so, with the gap so close and in the heat of battle. At this level it's rarely stupid and just the nature of racing.

 

[function]

You always have a choice. At last year's Paris-Roubaix he made a different choice, and many breakaways die a premature death because some riders don't want to do someone else's job.

If Cancellara had refused to tow Gerrans to the finish line, would Gerrans have acted the same way, or would he have cooperated? I don't care about Goss being behind, because at that point Gerrans was a much better option, as he was clearly the faster of the three (after 300 km, of course, Cancellara still had a chance), whereas Goss (who had real difficulties up the Poggio and only managed to be 15th, let us not forget) would have to deal with the likes of Sagan, Degenkolb and Freire, in a much less certain affair.

So Gerrans can't ride as fast as Cancellara on the flat. So what, he could still have given his all. We see that all the time: a climber and a rouleur in a break, the rouleur is more important to the success of the duo, but the climber still has to do his share, if only to allow the rouleur to catch his breath.

Had Cancellara refused to ride unless Gerrans went as hard as he, Gerrans would have been an idiot not to cooperate. If Fabian had done that, the three of them might have reached the finish line, and he might have won. That didn't happen, though, so it's Cancellara's fault that Gerrans didn't work, and Fabian did ride for 2nd instead of at least trying to bluff his way into 1st.

At the speed of the descent and finishing stretch and the time gap, was there any time at all to start forcing people to work?

 

[hrotha]

At the speed of the descent and finishing stretch and the time gap, was there any time at all to start forcing people to work?

Of course there was.

 

[function]

Of course there was.

 

[hrotha]

Your point being?

Did they spend more than 15-20 seconds in the break after the descent had ended? If so, then yes, Cancellara had time to let Gerrans pass and ask for cooperation. If you mean if they could fool around and waste their time, then obviously not, but in that situation there's no reason why Gerrans wouldn't have cooperated to the best of his abilities.

 

[function]

Cancellara had time to let Gerrans pass and ask for cooperation. If you mean if they could fool around and waste their time, then obviously not

What would you say Cancellara is doing below?