Conta-do over? Will ban be reversed?

[indurain666]

Just because a test isn't validated doesn't mean WADA cannot use it. There could be a reason why plasticizers were in his urine and not clenbuterol.

For one, he could have used a transfusion and then topped off later with a second, but smaller 300ml packet of blood that contained trace amounts of clenbuterol from previous use that contaminated his 2nd transfusion.

Plasticiers and clenbuterol have different half lives so you wouldn't necessarily expect to find them in the same test even though they were taken at the same time.

Are you serious? Please I know you hate the guy, but your whole "blood topping" logic makes no sense whatsoever "Hey doc, give me a few extra mls..I am hungry!!"

I really don't see Alberto riding TDF next year, because WADA/UCi is going to appeal it..

Its going to be the most boring TDF ever: Schleck vs Evans?? Now that is sad...just as bad as 2008 when Contador was not there.

 

[TERMINATOR]

#7 A one year ban is the standard practice, unfortunately, when organizations like the Competition Committee agree that there's no chance the person cheated, or derived any performance enhancement, but Strict Liability requires they be punished anyway. A year of your career and a Tour de France is what they take away if they believe you.

Contador never proved it came from the meat. Contador never tested any of the meat from the butcher, which to me is astonishing.

Second, concentration has nothing to do with whether or not someone derived a performance enhancing benefit, nor is such logic allowed for in the WADA Code.

If Contador used clenbuterol and transfused blood that still had trace amounts, that would explain his low concentrations.

Micro-dosing of banned substances is the new thing amongst pro cyclists - try to keep up. So to claim low concetration means it's okay is an absurd defense.

CAS will give Contador 2 years.

 

[python]

Made no easier by the fact that he also has a TUE for high H-crit values.

are you saying contador has a uci permit for high blood values ? i've been following this case pretty closely and hear this for the first time.

please provide the source.

we hardly need anymore misinformation and conjecture than already out there.

 

[Polyarmour]

#
#4 Farmers are arrested in Spain every year for using Clenbuterol.

That's the first I've heard of this and I can't find any references to it anywhere?

#8. There is a provision in the codes of both WADA and the UCI for zero penalty under certain circumstances. The Competition Committee had already agreed that of the four options presented by the UCI, food contamination was the only possible reason. Contador then said that he believed, like so many of you here, that meat from Spain was completely safe. If he had eaten it anyway in Mexico or China where it's a recognized problem, then yes, he could be considered negligent. But eating a food source that many of you still think is perfect means he wasn't anymore negligent that you would be.

And yet you say Spanish farmers are arrested every year for using Clenbuterol? Why would you assume that Spanish beef is therefore clean?

Ultimately the cycling authorities shouldn't entertain this argument at all. It's a can of worms trying to prove whether someone should have known whether a food product was tainted or not. Contador was responsible for what he put into his body...period. He could easily have organised a reputable certified organic supplier of all his meat products for the duration of the Tour. "Not certified, verified and accounted for,... not eating it". That an athlete of his stature ate a piece of meat from a car boot driven across 2 countries just defies all explanations... no matter how you spin it.

 

[TERMINATOR]

#8. There is a provision in the codes of both WADA and the UCI for zero penalty under certain circumstances. The Competition Committee had already agreed that of the four options presented by the UCI, food contamination was the only possible reason. Contador then said that he believed, like so many of you here, that meat from Spain was completely safe. If he had eaten it anyway in Mexico or China where it's a recognized problem, then yes, he could be considered negligent. But eating a food source that many of you still think is perfect means he wasn't anymore negligent that you would be.

CAS will give Contador 2 years because:

1.) Contador never proved it came from the meat.
2.) It is more likely Contador got it from a blood transfusion.
3.) The burden to prove it came from the meat lays with Contador, which he failed to do because he never tested any of the meat from the butcher. Gee, I wonder why.
4.) WADA tested the meat and it came out negative.

 

[TERMINATOR]

#9 The head of the Cologne Lab said a year and a half ago that there should be a minimum threshold for a Clenbuterol positive. Lots of other anti-doping scientists agree. Contador's legal team offered fifteen scientists a chance to build a case against him, and none could. It all comes down to a stupid rule called Strict Liability.

Read my previous posts. I already built a solid case against Contador. When this case goes to CAS he will get 2 years.

It was Contador's burden to prove the meat was contaminated, and he failed to show that. The guy didn't even bother to test any meat from the butcher!!!!

I wonder why.

 

[python]

met de versnelling made a statement that contador has a tue for high blood values.

i never heard this before. did anyone see it mentioned in a reputable source ?

would appreciate the link.

 

[hrotha]

met de versnelling made a statement that contador has a tue for high blood values.

i never heard this before. did anyone see it mentioned in a reputable source ?

would appreciate the link.

No, he meant Riccò.

#2 Plasticizers. Fahey said in Paris just today that the test STILL isn't ready to be validated. And in the October 4 New York Times article, they realized from the unknown person not at liberty to talk about the matter that the alleged plasticizers were on July 20, a day when there was zero Clenbuterol.

At this point, swordsman, I think I'm going to have to question your honesty in your defense of Contador. You brought up this just yesterday or the day before, I addressed it, and now you're raising it again.

 

[Bicicleta]

"We haven't finished compiling the numbers yet, but the cases are concentrated in the sports of bodybuilding, swimming, triathlon and cycling. Is there a genetic predisposition to eat more contaminated meat in those sports?"

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/columns/story?columnist=ford_bonnie_d&id=6069073

I just can't get past the quote above from Christiane Ayotte. If anyone has information to refute this I'd love to hear it, until then I can't believe Contador, or Fuyu Li or .... anymore.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Agree with Terminator's logic that WADA will pursue to CAS.

AC can argue lab detection, or meat all he wants, but until he can supply the proof of how it "accidentally" got into his system, he's sunk at CAS, regardless of what speculation the competition committee wondered, or what RFEC rules.

 

[biker jk]

Are you serious? Please I know you hate the guy, but your whole "blood topping" logic makes no sense whatsoever "Hey doc, give me a few extra mls..I am hungry!!"

I really don't see Alberto riding TDF next year, because WADA/UCi is going to appeal it..

Its going to be the most boring TDF ever: Schleck vs Evans?? Now that is sad...just as bad as 2008 when Contador was not there.

Sorry but I don't fancy the type of cycling entertainment Contador provides. I'm not into freak shows.

 

[brianf7]

What we need to look at is spanish law as with most western government cant ban him for what they claim bo be doping. they simply cant afford to ban him then have huge compo and other issues Spain is broke dont have any money so they say so how can they spend big $$$$$ chasing such a trivial matter.

Now UCI and WADA place themselves above the law but they are not and one day someone will sink them. up to their grubby little necks in it.

I dont like Contadore but he has human rights as any of us.

 

[brianf7]

met de versnelling made a statement that contador has a tue for high blood values.

i never heard this before. did anyone see it mentioned in a reputable source ?

would appreciate the link.

The only people who see what is in a TUE is the rider his doctor and his cycling organisation no one else more than they dare to let it out its all speculation.

Tell me Armstrong dosnt have a TUE for testosterone he must have or he wouldnt be riding its what the doctors can do with testosterone that enhances his performance not the raw drug that is aproved.

 

[jae2460]

well i think you cant ban him for one year however you fiddle with the rules, to me it looks like the spainards didnt want to ban him but thought they had to.. A year ban is accepting it was from the meat but I think you cant blame someone for eating meat in spain and not suspecting he might fail a drug test for it... so really they shouldn't have banned him at all, it's not like the italian guy who was eating the meat in china or mexico(whereever it was) where it is quite common for that to happen..

I think contador was doping and should have a 2year ban btw :S

What an incoherent pile of rubbish. WADA should and probably was going to appeal even the One year ban and give him the 2 he deserves. But now the Spanish have lost what little credibility they regained with their initial 1 year proposal.

 

[Blakeslee]

If this story turns out to be true I don't see how the Spanish Cycling Federation can possibly justify this decision. As the Bonnie Ford article explains there is a zero tolerance policy when it comes to Clenbuterol and the onus is squarely on the athlete to account for how the drug got into their system. From what has been publicly disclosed so far Contador has not been able to provide anything approaching conclusive evidence to support his tainted meat story, to the contrary WADA has provided the stronger evidence against the tainted meat defense by the testing that was carried out at the butcher and supplier where the meat was supposedly purchased.

While there is probably not conclusive evidence that blood doping was involved, I think it would be ignorant not to consider this as a strong possibility particularly in light of what happened with Ricco this week. It is becoming increasingly clear that cycling continues to have problems with widespread blood doping, the Contador case represents an opportunity to at least make riders start thinking twice about blood doping. Considering what happened with Ricco this week it is urgent that cycling starts dealing with this issue more aggressively, if they fail to do so it will be a matter of time before someone ends up dead.

 

[Publicus]

Agree with Terminator's logic that WADA will pursue to CAS.

AC can argue lab detection, or meat all he wants, but until he can supply the proof of how it "accidentally" got into his system, he's sunk at CAS, regardless of what speculation the competition committee wondered, or what RFEC rules.

It's the proverbial problem of proving a negative:

"I didn't dope, I must have ingested it."

"Oh yeah, prove it."

"Well I ate the proof."

"Sorry, you are sh*t out of luck then."

A rock and a hard place for AC IMO.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I will be convinced that the sport is seriously f***** if Contador's ban gets reversed.

 

[Barrus]

It was, it's just that the online-part already contained all the juicy bits:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=360135&postcount=345

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=360249&postcount=359

Aah, strangely read over those two little posts and only remembered some Blegians say that they could not find the article.

 

[GJB123]

De Boer said this back in May about Fuyu Li's positive-


This is false, as there is no threshold - the 2.0ng is the minimum requirement performance level (MRPL) for detection of prohibited substances .

Read what he said again, because basically he is saying the same thing as yourself. He is not claiming there is a threshold, he is saying that more and more scientists believe that due to environmental contamination the threshold should be set at 2.00 ng/ml. All else is mincing words.

“Laboratories must be able to find 1.00 ng/mL, while a normal threshold value is considered to be 2.00 ng/mL. The value of 0.05-0.10 ng/mL that was found in Fuyu Li’s body points clearly in the direction of a contamination. On top of that, such a low dose would not help his performance in any way.”

So I fail to see how this particular quote shows De Boer is dubious. Yes, he is not throwing a clen-positive rider under the train just because we have strict liability rules but rather he is merely giving his scientific opinion on this particular case. What's supposed to be wrong with that?

Regards
GJ

 

[GJB123]

De Boer is also in charge of the Vacansoleil internal testing. Did a good job catching Riccò.

So did Aldo Sassi and his Mapei Training Centre. Right?

Regards
GJ

 

[GJB123]

Read my previous posts. I already built a solid case against Contador. When this case goes to CAS he will get 2 years.

It was Contador's burden to prove the meat was contaminated, and he failed to show that. The guy didn't even bother to test any meat from the butcher!!!!

I wonder why.

Are you thick or what? You built a "solid" case on a forum based on no files at all, whereas 15 noted scientists couldn't connect the dots having all the infromation available. You should apply for a job at WADA, they need geniusses like yourself.

Regards
GJ

 

[sniper]

Are you thick or what? You built a "solid" case on a forum based on no files at all, whereas 15 noted scientists couldn't connect the dots having all the infromation available. You should apply for a job at WADA, they need geniusses like yourself.

Regards
GJ

it's as you say it is. though replace couldn't for wouldn't.

 

[GJB123]

it's as you say it is. though replace couldn't for wouldn't.

Based on what? More baseless innuendo? I am still wating on your proof that De Boer is dubious, but now all of a sudden and without any proof not only De Boer is dubious but all other 14 scientists as well. They are all on the take. Yeah, right!

As python already explained it is highly unlikely that so many people would be willing to lie on behalf of Contador and risk their livelihood and reputation for that.

Regards
GJ

 

[sniper]

De Boer is also in charge of the Vacansoleil internal testing. Did a good job catching Riccò.

+1

De Boer said this back in May about Fuyu Li's positive-


This is false, as there is no threshold - the 2.0ng is the minimum requirement performance level (MRPL) for detection of prohibited substances .

+1

Read what he said again, because basically he is saying the same thing as yourself. He is not claiming there is a threshold, he is saying that more and more scientists believe that due to environmental contamination the threshold should be set at 2.00 ng/ml. All else is mincing words.



So I fail to see how this particular quote shows De Boer is dubious. Yes, he is not throwing a clen-positive rider under the train just because we have strict liability rules but rather he is merely giving his scientific opinion on this particular case. What's supposed to be wrong with that?

Regards
GJ

he sais it points clearly in the direction of a food contamination. That is dubious, since there are several other options that he's not considering. Then him advising Vascansoleil is dubious, him being a UCI-doctor is dubious.

Time to take off the blinders, I'd say.

 

[sniper]

Based on what? More baseless innuendo? I am still wating on your proof that De Boer is dubious, but now all of a sudden and without any proof not only De Boer is dubious but all other 14 scientists as well. They are all on the take. Yeah, right!

proof and dubious don't go together, you know that, right?