Conta-do over? Will ban be reversed?

[sniper]

Sueddeutsche Zeitung slams political and institutional support for AC:

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/C5G38F/3899333/Staatsaffaere-ums-Kalbsfilet.html

They call AC the "perfect naivling", as he continues to claim he knows nothing of doping among colleagues, except for the positives that come out.

They subtly remind us of AC's initials on Fuentes' list.

They criticize the support for AC from Zapatero (not only prime-minister but also in charge of Sp. ministry of sports), Luis Ayllãn, and Alejandro Blanco (Olympic committee), all of whom explicitly state that AC hasn't done anything wrong, and that "science shows he's unguilty", etc.

They remind that the small amount of CLEN is perfectly explicable via bloodtransfusion, a fact that all of AC's supporters are mysteriously keeping silent.

 

[Christian]

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/C5G38F/3899333/Staatsaffaere-ums-Kalbsfilet.html

Lol, gotta love the title: Staatsaffäre um Kalbsfilet (Veil-filet becomes national affair), really shows how absurd and ridiculous this whole story has become ...

Some other interesting things they say, which I didn't know:

Die Stellungnahme des Sozialisten (Zapatero) der seit geraumer Zeit auch oberster Sportpolitiker des Landes ist und Europas Regierungen in der Welt-Anti-Doping-Agentur Wada vertritt ...

(...) Zapatero, who has also been the highest sport politician of the country for quite some time now, and who represents Europe's governments in the World Anti-Doping Agency WADA ....

---> this is more than enough reason for me to rethink Zapatero's engagement with WADA!

Blancos Dopingpolitik illustriert die Besetzung seiner Spitzensportkommission. Hier sitzt 3000-m-Hindernis-Europameisterin Marta Domínguez, die von der Polizei als Dealerin geführt worden ist.

(Alejandro) Blanco's (head of the national olympic committee) dopinc politics are illustrated by the composition of his commission of top athletes. There one can find (...) Marta Dominguez, who was accused of being a dealer by the police."

 

[DAOTEC]

(affaire en plastique est un national de Letzebuerg)

Lol, gotta love the title: really shows how absurd and ridiculous this whole story has become ...

Lmao, and guess ¿what, this is to get them sleezy Johnny's Leopards down

[http://cn.com/news/afld-to-partner-with-uci-for-tdf]

Lol, yeah we just have to wait a litt:

Kim Andersen should be fired from his managerial post at Andy Schleck's team due to his past doping offenses, according to French Cycling Federation (FFC) President David Lappartient. Andersen was the first Danish rider to wear the yellow leader's jersey at a Tour de France in 1983. In 1987, tested positive for doping and was give a lifetime ban, but it was later reduced to one year. In 1992, he tested positive and was fired by Team Z again for life.

 

[Christian]

--> thy title doth no f*cking sense make

Lmao, and guess ¿what, this is to get them sleezy Johnny's Leopards down

[http://cn.com/news/afld-to-partner-with-uci-for-tdf]

Lol, yeah we just have to wait a litt:

Kim Andersen should be fired from his managerial post at Andy Schleck's team due to his past doping offenses, according to French Cycling Federation (FFC) President David Lappartient. Andersen was the first Danish rider to wear the yellow leader's jersey at a Tour de France in 1983. In 1987, tested positive for doping and was give a lifetime ban, but it was later reduced to one year. In 1992, he tested positive and was fired by Team Z again for life.

¿DAOTEC! you post this Bild and cette histoire en réponse à every post of mine, it's just dass das Ganze so langsam ein bisschen alt wird. Ik heb je en PM gesendet über genau dieses Problem a while ago and je suis sûr que, comme toutes les autres fois, vas a ignorar mi rispuesta.

Cordialement,

Christian.

 

[Paco_P]

The Sanish wanting their cheater to be able to cheat again. So shocking!

The lowlifes run the asylum in Spain.

Thank god for WADA, otherwise spanish cyclists would all be winners.

According to this article:

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/flaco/favor/Contador/elpepidep/20110212elpepidep_7/Tes

Zapatero's comments caused a lot of unhappiness in the Spanish cycling federation.

 

[Paco_P]

Oh please, get real, this has nothing to do with any bias against Spain. It's plainly obvious that there's some deeper problem with doping in Spain, and yes, a worse problem than in most other countries.
t.

It's not at all obvious. I'm going to make a few comparisons with the US. In the US, cycling is a sport of minor importance in the media, whereas in Spain it is a sport of some importance. Compared with sports like football, American football, basketball, baseball, and boxing, cycling and track and field have very positive records of actually catching and sanctioning dopers. These sports are more important in a country like Spain than they are in the US, with the consequence that it appears to some viewers that there is more doping going on in Spain (although Hamilton, Landis, Lance, in cycling, Sosa, McGwire, all the rest, in baseball, all of the NBA, all of the NFL, all recent (that is, last several decades) US gold medalists in track and field and swimming, is a fairly large list of dopers - what recent US sporting hero doesn't dope - Tiger Woods with his John Daly physique? Serena Williams? Michael Phelps? Lebron? None of them passes the eyeball test). There are also a hell of lot more professional cyclists per capita in Spain than there are in the US.

Just go to the neighborhood gym in the US and you will see massive evidence of frequent steroid use. In Spain one sees less.

Operacion Puerta, Operaciona Galgo, etc. - at least the Spanish police are trying to do something. Beyond Balco and Barry Bonds, what the hell is being done in the US? The uber-doper of cycling is a national hero.

 

[sniper]

Oh please, get real, this has nothing to do with any bias against Spain. It's plainly obvious that there's some deeper problem with doping in Spain, and yes, a worse problem than in most other countries.

I remember when after the Salt Lake and then especially the Turin Olympics the Austrian Olympic team was accused of systematic doping and how the media totally downplayed the whole thing and try to paint it as a "us vs them", "they are just jealous" thing. Funny how it then turned out, that the IOC and WADA were totally right all along, and the entire Austrian nordic ski program was probably as dirty as anything can be going back to at least the 1999 world championships. Sure they won lots of medals, but was that worth it dragging a whole country's sports prestige into the gutter for years?

And Spain's problematic image as a doping safe haven also isn't going away by ignoring it.

a big fat +1

We all agree Spain isn't the only country where athletes dope, but it's so plain to see for everyone how doping is (not) dealt with.
And now, the way so many in Spain are blind to even consider the possibility that AC is a blooddoper. Quite silly.

@Paco_P: you'r of course right to bring up the US. But as Spalco said, looking away (or saying "they all do it") isn't going to help Spain recover its immage.

 

[Paco_P]

Even the president of Spain says he's innocent.

It must be true then, we know that politicians never lie.

By the way, anyone interested in a bridge in NYC from me? priced to sell!!!

Actually he did not say Contador was innocent. He said essentially "there is no legal basis for sanctioning Contador". The problems with this are (at least) two:

1. It is wrong. The international anti-doping regulations, which became part of Spanish law a few years ago, consider that the presence in the body of a prohibited substance merits a sanction.

2. The Spanish president should not be making public comments about a case which the relevant sporting authority is considering at the moment. This is clearly inappropriate pressure.

3. The Spanish president should not be crassly fishing for votes he lost already by pandering to dumbly nationalistic support of an obvious cheater.

 

[Siriuscat]

I've read through this thread a few times now and the arguments have just become circular and they are going nowhere.

Can i share a few thoughts:

1. This positive should never have come to light, the WADA code talks about a specific reporting level something like 0.2 micro grams, the positive was well under that. (I could be wrong with amounts here, I accept that)

2. There is an unfairness in anyone being tested in Cologne because they are better than anyone else. If the testing system is "supposed" to be fair then the labs and the tests need to be managed fairly. How much was in Schlecks system?? Where were his samples tested?? In Mcquaids office??

3. Plasticisers are a red herring. Anytime any of us get tablets in capsule form from the docs we ingest plasticisers, they are all around us. Unless they can isolate a constituent specific to blood bags then so be it, I've read nothing so far that suggests this.

4. Testing and the code needs to move on, they need to reevaluate all the products that have a zero threshold because the way society has changed there is too much cross contamination that cannot be proved.

5. There is enough possible doubt over the ingestion method that 1 yr is what he should get, the recent arrests over the illegal abattoir backs up his claim because despite controls we do not know how many places there are like this.

6. RFEC and Spain have a terrible reputation but perhaps slagging them off is wrong (no I'm not Spanish, the closest I get is the sangria mix in the cupboard). They do need time to change but like every national body politics and impetus are difficult to shift!

I am a bit of a Contador fan but if he has been doping then he deserves his punishment but lets punish him properly for something that's been done to achieve an advantage. This has not, this smacks of a sacrifice and I'm not going to mention my thoughts of where it's come from, I'll get a few days off posting for that. Conspiracy, yes, every possibility especially as McQuaid has put his substantial girth and seal of approval on the new Luxembourg team.

There was Clenbuteral in his system it's his responsibility but there is significant doubt over the ingestion and intent that I feel losing the tour and 1 yr would be a fair outcome. I won't shed tears if he's acquitted but I do think there it will be a bit unjust of he gets 2 years for this.

 

[roadiemtl]

When Contandor tested positive during the TDF he should have been pulled right then and there. Schleck would have got his first win, the TDF would have been decided on the road.

Cycling is turning into a joke, and between Floyd and the Spanish I don't see how it can have any credibility.

 

[Oldman]

Sueddeutsche Zeitung slams political and institutional support for AC:

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/C5G38F/3899333/Staatsaffaere-ums-Kalbsfilet.html

They call AC the "perfect naivling", as he continues to claim he knows nothing of doping among colleagues, except for the positives that come out.

They subtly remind us of AC's initials on Fuentes' list.

They criticize the support for AC from Zapatero (not only prime-minister but also in charge of Sp. ministry of sports), Luis Ayllãn, and Alejandro Blanco (Olympic committee), all of whom explicitly state that AC hasn't done anything wrong, and that "science shows he's unguilty", etc.

They remind that the small amount of CLEN is perfectly explicable via bloodtransfusion, a fact that all of AC's supporters are mysteriously keeping silent.

Nice. Maybe we can expect a similar analysis from USACycling. Oh, wait; they're next on docket...
It is extremely important that the conflicts of interests in sports governance be acknowledged. If we can live with that, so be it but even rabid fans would question the objectivity of these officials.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

I enjoy Carpani's comment that "it would not help cycling to crucify Contador".

Such insight.

He also adds that the UCI will either appeal or not. Well, thanks for clearing that up. Such insight. Such simplicity.

Condor will be banned for two years. The rules are clear. If he dogs the charge, WADA will complete the plasticizer test technique and he will then be truly crucified. He is not getting good advice at this point. Poor lad.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I've read through this thread a few times now and the arguments have just become circular and they are going nowhere.

Can i share a few thoughts:

1. This positive should never have come to light, the WADA code talks about a specific reporting level something like 0.2 micro grams, the positive was well under that. (I could be wrong with amounts here, I accept that)

2. There is an unfairness in anyone being tested in Cologne because they are better than anyone else. If the testing system is "supposed" to be fair then the labs and the tests need to be managed fairly. How much was in Schlecks system?? Where were his samples tested?? In Mcquaids office??

3. Plasticisers are a red herring. Anytime any of us get tablets in capsule form from the docs we ingest plasticisers, they are all around us. Unless they can isolate a constituent specific to blood bags then so be it, I've read nothing so far that suggests this.

4. Testing and the code needs to move on, they need to reevaluate all the products that have a zero threshold because the way society has changed there is too much cross contamination that cannot be proved.

5. There is enough possible doubt over the ingestion method that 1 yr is what he should get, the recent arrests over the illegal abattoir backs up his claim because despite controls we do not know how many places there are like this.

6. RFEC and Spain have a terrible reputation but perhaps slagging them off is wrong (no I'm not Spanish, the closest I get is the sangria mix in the cupboard). They do need time to change but like every national body politics and impetus are difficult to shift!

I am a bit of a Contador fan but if he has been doping then he deserves his punishment but lets punish him properly for something that's been done to achieve an advantage. This has not, this smacks of a sacrifice and I'm not going to mention my thoughts of where it's come from, I'll get a few days off posting for that. Conspiracy, yes, every possibility especially as McQuaid has put his substantial girth and seal of approval on the new Luxembourg team.

There was Clenbuteral in his system it's his responsibility but there is significant doubt over the ingestion and intent that I feel losing the tour and 1 yr would be a fair outcome. I won't shed tears if he's acquitted but I do think there it will be a bit unjust of he gets 2 years for this.

You know what - this is just like the run up to the Landis verdict. Everyone looking for a reason to convict or to acquit - normally dependent on whether you like Dertie Cont or not.

 

[Siriuscat]

You know what - this is just like the run up to the Landis verdict. Everyone looking for a reason to convict or to acquit - normally dependent on whether you like Dertie Cont or not.

Absolutley but until such times as the rules makers and sporting mandarins grow a set balls to do things properly that's the way it will be.

 

[flicker]

You know what - this is just like the run up to the Landis verdict. Everyone looking for a reason to convict or to acquit - normally dependent on whether you like Dertie Cont or not.

Nothing against Contador, best rider in the business, esp. if Ricco doesn't come out of his flat spin. Interesting, Contas' supposed pos. was reported by Velonews to be the reason Red Bull pulled their sponsorship with Pegasus, contibuting to the perfect storm of failure by Pegasus. Now this, is this another feather in Albertos' cap?:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/7416/UCI-confirms-that-Licence-Commission-may-examine-Saxo-Bank

 

[webvan]

Couldn't get your link to work, let's try with this one : http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/7...-Banks-position-if-Contador-is-suspended.aspx

 

[DAOTEC]

13 de febrero de 2011 • 10:30 "¿Contador acquitted WoW¡"

haut-magistrat espagñol soutient Contador

The highest judge in España today: Angel Juanes, president of the Spanish National Court, the highest criminal court in the country, delivered its opinion on the case Alberto Contador. As he told El Mundo, the magistrate believes that the rider 'has not doped' and 'should not be sanctioned'.

"In the proposed penalty of one year (to be imposed by the Spanish Cycling Federation) has already been noted that the rider was not doped, and the absorption of clenbuterol is so tiny it can not be used to improve performance and will not hold up in court, he adds."


(http://terra.ar/contador-deberia-ser-absuelto-dice-presidente-de-audiencia-nacional.html)

 

[Dr. Maserati]

haut-magistrat espagñol soutient Contador

The highest judge in España today: Angel Juanes, president of the Spanish National Court, the highest criminal court in the country, delivered its opinion on the case Alberto Contador. As he told El Mundo, the magistrate believes that the rider 'has not doped' and 'should not be sanctioned'.

"In the proposed penalty of one year (to be imposed by the Spanish Cycling Federation) has already been noted that the rider was not doped, and the absorption of clenbuterol is so tiny it can not be used to improve performance and will not hold up in court, he adds."


(http://terra.ar/contador-deberia-ser-absuelto-dice-presidente-de-audiencia-nacional.html)

His opinion has about as much weight as yours or mine - AC case is not being heard by the Spanish judicial system.

Remember Valverde? He had some high profile people back him up too.

Judge Serrano:

The Madrid judge, Antonio Serrano, in charge of Operación Puerto says that CONI's actions in regards to obtaining the blood bag are "null and void."

or what about Lissavetzky's comments:

Spanish sports minister Jaime Lissavetzky believes "there are a number of doubts and questions" over Alejandro Valverde's suspension from racing in Italy by the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) and has questioned the fairness of the decision.

When this goes to CAS expect the same result as what happened Valverde.

 

[roadiemtl]

biggest laugh - Kuntador talks:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...d-clenbuterol-case-denies-blood-doping_159545

Because he doesn't know what a pictogram is, that proves he' innocent!

All spanish riders, Floyd and Tyler should be declared innocent, none of them ever cheated.

Cycling is a big joke, the guilty are let off with a wrist slap, they even get to come back and do it again (Tyler Hamilton). No wonder Germany has dumped cycling from its TV schedule.

 

[runninboy]

I enjoy Carpani's comment that "it would not help cycling to crucify Contador".


He also adds that the UCI will either appeal or not. Well, thanks for clearing that up. Such insight. Such simplicity.

Condor will be banned for two years. The rules are clear. If he dogs the charge, WADA will complete the plasticizer test technique and he will then be truly crucified. He is not getting good advice at this point. Poor lad.

I agree. pretty silly comment, we will either do something or nothing but we won't, ummmm shoot i guess that pretty much covers all the options
Ok that is our official position.

The thing is it seems kind of suspicous to me that now it is all about veal. Someone mentioned that it was always quoted as veal in the Spanish press from the beginning. However a few things bother me. First that all the English speaking websites decided to translate "VEAL" into "BEEF" even the Spanish Beef industry commented that it was beef. The Beef industry usually does not consider veal part of their industry, veal comes from dairy cattle as female calves are used to replenish the herd and male calves are made into veal.
Anyway i do remember references to beef specifically when i went for more info and translated the pages to English. Hard to believe the translations were all wrong. Even just a few days ago i saw references in Spanish to the cut of meat Solomillo and not the fact it was veal. As that just means sirloin it is kind of funny.
ANYWAY i was just curious if anyone can remember reading any PRINT media quoting the meat as veal. Because as we all know websites are updated often. And the dateline can of course be over ridden so that the story appears to be i its original form whereas it was actually edited.

And remember how the Spanish Beef industry has been curiously silent as of late? They vehemently denied the accusations originally. Now they keep their mouths shut? Why? If there is veal that is contaminated with an illegal drug would we not see an investigation from the EU? would we not see the beef industry try to differentiate itself from veal production since they took drastic actions when clenbuterol was previously found?That is when the current tracking system was launched after all.

And finally the size of the cut of meat as it was reported would be rather large from a veal calf. it was reported to be 3.2 kilos that is 7 lbs
for comparison
a full sized BEEF CARCASS 1000+ lbs yields only 8 lbs of sirloin "solomillo"

a carcass in order to be veal has to weigh 396 lbs or less

that is less than half the size of a typical beef carcass

How do you get a 7 lb cut of meat from an animal that is half the size of animal needed to produce such a cut.
Impossible, sorry someone is telling a whooper here(pun intended)

 

[sniper]

A short piece in Spanish, based on a German press release (DPA).
Nothing we didn't know yet, but still interesting:
http://www.elpais.cr/articulos.php?id=41097

- Noting that the comparison of Ovtcharov's with AC's case doesn't work.

- About the fact that Ovtcharov did a hairtest, AC didn'T.

- About the fact that AC has "a past", Ovtcharov doesn't.

- (If I understood correcly) Ovtcharov calls AC corrupt, but provides no further comments on AC's case.

 

[DAOTEC]

there you go

His opinion has about as much weight as yours or mine.

So, we will know soon is it doc ¿?

AC case is not being heard by the Spanish judicial system.

So, you can read is it doc ¿? ... read again¡!¡!


p.s. Valverde took his case to the wrong outlet outside the EU, that won't happen this time around sunny.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Dao, can you for once please say what you mean and not hint around in a totally cryptic manner?

Thanks.

Susan

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So, we will know soon is it doc ¿?

So, you can read is it doc ¿? ... read again¡!¡!


p.s. Valverde took his case to the wrong outlet outside the EU, ... that won't happen this time around sunny.

Why did Valverde take his case to Switzerland? Thats right - because that is where CAS is based, Switzerland.

Any appeal of the RFEC decision from either side is first heard through CAS - see you in Switzerland.

 

[python]

doc, dio, susan,

don't get pulled in the wrong direction.

valverde case was completely different both with respect to the role the sovereign and international judiciaries (as opposed to sporting ad authorites) played and the substance of the accusations in both cases.

so far, contador's case is a clean sheet compared to complexities of the valverde case.

the two cas tribunals that untangled the valverde case complexities courageously delved into the depth of international and swiss law and ruled unequivocally on facts gathered by coni - irrefutable blood doping.

another huge misconception - the role of spanish judiciary. the fact is, w/o the cooperation of uncorrupted elements of the spanish judiciary valverde would walk free now.

let's hope cas will eventually see contador's case and perform equivalently thorough job that they merited valverde with.

all other political sound bites (including the spanish supreme judge) are irrelevant now.