ContadorÂ’s legal team hit back at WADA report

[Benotti69]

Ah, but you're cheating! You already know which steak had the clen (none; but just for argument's sake). What if it turned out the unbought Pau steak was the one with the clen and the Irún steak from South America was clean? Both are supposed to meet EU health regulations.

well the difference is no one else tested positive on the team so the chef got it right till this 'mythical' steak turned up that the chef did not source

 

[GJB123]

You seem to have whipped yourself into a bit of a frenzy here.

This is more about sporting rules than law.

There are suspensions, not sentences.

That is semantics. I think most people including the cyclists themselves would say that it does feel as sentence or punishment. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, logic dictates that ...

Doping has long been out of control, which is why WADA was created. Cycling is the Typhoid Mary that led to WADA.

You don't have to cycle. If you want to, you have to agree to follow the rules.

Perhaps you don't have a UCI license, but I do. It says, "The holder is subject to the Regulatations of the UCI and accepts any drug and blood tests for which they provide as well as the exclusive competence of the CAS."

I signed that license just like Aldirto had to sign his.

Do you have much choice if you chosen profession is cycling and your major or perhaps even only talent is being a very good cyclist? You don't need to answer that, by the way, Pedro Horillo did a much better job o fthat than any of us could ever hope to do.

If you don't like the system, then get involved. Do the research and submit papers. This is how new tests are accepted, for example.

There is a regular process to review the rules and standards. Thus far, it does not appear that there have been many good arguments put forth with respect to some sort of world epidemic of accidental Clenbuterol contamination.

Who knows, perhaps I will, perhaps I am. However that is neither here nor there. This is forum in which to discuss cycling matters and that is what I am doing. If everybody on here expressing a strong view can only do that if they get involved, it will get very quiet here.

If it were something that you were a bit more familiar with (i.e. you have heard about it before), like Uranium, which is a naturally occuring substance, would you be comfortable with simple detection and no allowable limit?

It is not just that is is naturally occurring, it is whether it is possible to get contaminated accidentally. For clen it is, although not epidemic and there are numerous cases showing it can happen. That can't be said for all naturally occurring substances, like for example Uranium. And no I am not okay with no allowable limit for substances that can be ingested accidentally and/or unknowingly, at least not below certain thresholds.

Regards
GJ

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You mean AFTER they leaked your positive test to the media, misinformed people that there was another obscure plasticizers test that you tested positive foer and your boss goes on publicly stating that your country has a doping problem? Yeah, fo' sho!

Let me ask you something: Have you ever heard of character assassination? I mean… Alberto hasn't even been sanctioned yet and he's been "grilled" three times over.

That is "opportunity to clear your name" at its best.

Yes I have heard of character assassination - so?
Where was your outrage when Fuyu Li was given just hours notice of his A sample positive before it was made public? Why is it Radioshack were able to sack him when the B sample confirmed the positive?

Contador has had a positive A (&B) sample for Clenbuterol. This information was not released to the public for almost a month after the B sample test.

Who are the "they" you are on about? You appear to misunderstand and misrepresent the role of WADA in Contadors positive for a prohibited substance.

 

[Barrus]

Yes I have heard of character assassination - so?
Where was your outrage when Fuyu Li was given just hours notice of his A sample positive before it was made public? Why is it Radioshack were able to sack him when the B sample confirmed the positive?

Contador has had a positive A (&B) sample for Clenbuterol. This information was not released to the public for almost a month after the B sample test.

Who are the "they" you are on about? You appear to misunderstand and misrepresent the role of WADA in Contadors positive for a prohibited substance.

Also Fuyu Li had a more probable excuse

 

[El Pistolero]

Also Fuyu Li had a more probable excuse

They had the exact same excuse

 

[Barrus]

They had the exact same excuse

But there is a big difference between the probability of finding clen in food in China and the probability of finding it in food in Spain, or France

 

[Señor_Contador]

Yes I have heard of character assassination - so?

So???? You're the one who said "Can you point out a system that offers that many opportunities to clear your name?". How can you insinuate that the very system that character assassinates you is somehow going to also, at the same time, provide a chance to clear the very name they're assassinating?

I mean, this is simple stuff, I shouldn't have to connect the dots for you. Yet, you guys act like 3-year olds, as if you ignore what the other person is trying to tell you. Even though you understand perfectly what you're being told.

Where was your outrage when Fuyu Li was given just hours notice of his A sample positive before it was made public? Why is it Radioshack were able to sack him when the B sample confirmed the positive?

It's funny that you, a person who does not believe in Alberto's story, is asking me why I show no similar outrage in Fuyu Li's case. Why don't you???

Contador has had a positive A (&B) sample for Clenbuterol. This information was not released to the public for almost a month after the B sample test.

But it was released in the end... This is not a question of timing. This is a question of releasing the name of a positive case.

Who are the "they" you are on about? You appear to misunderstand and misrepresent the role of WADA in Contadors positive for a prohibited substance.

Obviously those who released Contador's name to the media...

 

[biopass]

Are you for real or just a bot spouting the required answers? It is utterly and completely ridiculous to expect sportsmen to question normal food produce that can be bought and eaten in a normal store by Joe the plumber.

Now it's Contador, but would the same apply for you for a lowly domestique for the Footon-team or any other sportsmen from a smaller, different sport? Because he or she will face the same kind of liability rules Contador is facing and you are not seriously suggesting that alle athletes do their own testing on all their food and drink prior to ingesting it. So yes, it is wholly to be expected that certain substances that are out and about in every day normal food and drink find their way in to athletes without those athletes actually being aware of it. And if you are not aware of it will become a bloody hard job to prove afterwards that it was this or that food.

This is exactly what I mean when I day that the doping hunt and doping rules as a result have grown way out of control.

Regards
GJ

Im not suggesting all riders to test their food and water before they eat it. All I am saying is that I expect the Astana administration to do their homework proberly, so their riders doesnt eat contaminated food by coincidence. That doesnt mean they have to test all the food they buy to their riders.

Maybe, just maybe, the Astana administration could make sure their food supplyers follow the EU regulations.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So???? You're the one who said "Can you point out a system that offers that many opportunities to clear your name?". How can you insinuate that the very system that character assassinates you is somehow going to also, at the same time, provide a chance to clear the very name they're assassinating?

I mean, this is simple stuff, I shouldn't have to connect the dots for you. Yet, you guys act like 3-year olds, as if you ignore what the other person is trying to tell you. Even though you understand perfectly what you're being told.



It's funny that you, a person who does not believe in Alberto's story, is asking me why I show no similar outrage in Fuyu Li's case. Why don't you???



But it was released in the end... This is not a question of timing. This is a question of releasing the name of a positive case.



Obviously those who released Contador's name to the media...

Thanks for reminding me that you could not answer my earlier question.

Yes, I said I had "heard" of 'character assassination' - that does not mean I agree that what is happening with Contador is in any way 'character assassination' - I did not object to Fuyu Li's sanction, so unlike you I am consistent.

So - you are claiming to join the dots for me (us) and yet you cannot say who released information on Contador, or establish a link between them?

 

[GJB123]

Im not suggesting all riders to test their food and water before they eat it. All I am saying is that I expect the Astana administration to do their homework proberly, so their riders doesnt eat contaminated food by coincidence. That doesnt mean they have to test all the food they buy to their riders.

Maybe, just maybe, the Astana administration could make sure their food supplyers follow the EU regulations.

And how do you suggest they go about that? Ask the butcher, the slaughterhouse, the farmer whether they abide by the rules. Those people won't lie about it, right?

Regards
GJ

 

[Ferminal]

And how do you suggest they go about that? Ask the butcher, the slaughterhouse, the farmer whether they abide by the rules. Those people won't lie about it, right?

Regards
GJ

Probably not go on an eleventh hour mission to find the most obscure meat possible in Spain.

 

[biopass]

And how do you suggest they go about that? Ask the butcher, the slaughterhouse, the farmer whether they abide by the rules. Those people won't lie about it, right?

Regards
GJ

It doesnt matter how I think the Astana administration should do their preparation, thats not the issue. The issue here is that Contador ate contaminated food by accident, and that is not only Contadors own fault. It is also the fault of Astanas administation since they havent been able to have complete control of what their riders are eating. It is common knowledge that athletes not only have to train right, if they want to maximize their performance, they also have to eat the right food. Therefore the Astana administration should have control over what their riders are eating. Maybe not the whole season but atleast during the tour, especially if they want to win it.

 

[sniper]

It doesnt matter how I think the Astana administration should do their preparation, thats not the issue. The issue here is that Contador ate contaminated food by accident, and that is not only Contadors own fault. It is also the fault of Astanas administation since they havent been able to have complete control of what their riders are eating. It is common knowledge that athletes not only have to train right, if they want to maximize their performance, they also have to eat the right food. Therefore the Astana administration should have control over what their riders are eating. Maybe not the whole season but atleast during the tour, especially if they want to win it.

This is exactly why Contador's story is so implausible: Astana probably does have control over what Contador eats during the Tour, so there is quite little chance he would be eating contaminated meat spontaneously brought over from Spain.

 

[Wallace]

It doesnt matter how I think the Astana administration should do their preparation, thats not the issue. The issue here is that Contador ate contaminated food by accident, and that is not only Contadors own fault. It is also the fault of Astanas administation since they havent been able to have complete control of what their riders are eating. It is common knowledge that athletes not only have to train right, if they want to maximize their performance, they also have to eat the right food. Therefore the Astana administration should have control over what their riders are eating. Maybe not the whole season but atleast during the tour, especially if they want to win it.

I don't know anyone who believes that excuse. Even my cat doesn't believe the "contaminated meat" story for a second, and--although I hate to say it--even by cat standards, my cat's kind of stupid.

 

[GJB123]

It doesnt matter how I think the Astana administration should do their preparation, thats not the issue. The issue here is that Contador ate contaminated food by accident, and that is not only Contadors own fault. It is also the fault of Astanas administation since they havent been able to have complete control of what their riders are eating. It is common knowledge that athletes not only have to train right, if they want to maximize their performance, they also have to eat the right food. Therefore the Astana administration should have control over what their riders are eating. Maybe not the whole season but atleast during the tour, especially if they want to win it.

They do have control over the type of food they eat (pasta or not, meat or not, etc.), but to suggest they could have control over food being contaminated or not is just plain stupid. Sorry for the harsh words, but there is no other way of describing your point of view.

Regards
GJ

 

[Ferminal]

They do have control over the type of food they eat (pasta or not, meat or not, etc.), but to suggest they could have control over food being contaminated or not is just plain stupid. Sorry for the harsh words, but there is no other way of describing your point of view.

Regards
GJ

Was the meat in Pau contaminated? How many teams in the history of overnights in Pau sourced their meat from such a distance? I think it's a valid point, how many teams besides Astana would this actually happen to.

 

[Benotti69]

They do have control over the type of food they eat (pasta or not, meat or not, etc.), but to suggest they could have control over food being contaminated or not is just plain stupid. Sorry for the harsh words, but there is no other way of describing your point of view.

Regards
GJ

If you are arguing that it is food contaminationand because the team acted stupid and cooked a steak that a Spanish friend of Contador's turns up unanounced with, then he deserves the sanction for taking the stupid risk.

But who believes it in 2010 that a contender for the biggest annual sporting event in the world behaves in such a manner???? and when tests positive for a banned substance that they cant find in meat in 1000s of tests suddenly find it in Contador's urine.

We are not talking about a harmelss substance here, but something banned that taken in a high enough does can cause serious damage.

I am thinking of starting a pyramid scheme for all these fanboys

 

[biopass]

They do have control over the type of food they eat (pasta or not, meat or not, etc.), but to suggest they could have control over food being contaminated or not is just plain stupid. Sorry for the harsh words, but there is no other way of describing your point of view.

Regards
GJ

They dont have to control the food, they dont have to check the food for banned substances before they cook it. All they need to do is ask the food supplyers if they have been checked by the European Union, and if they have, they can ask to see the report. That is so simple.

 

[L'arriviste]

They dont have to control the food, they dont have to check the food for banned substances before they cook it. All they need to do is ask the food supplyers if they have been checked by the European Union, and if they have, they can ask to see the report. That is so simple.

Imagine if they did have to do that, though. We're all basically very trusting about our food, aren't we?

I was surprised WADA went and did a bit of meat testing. I just thought it was silly, beneath them and obviously proved nada.

I think we all need to move on to the space where there is still some room for bargaining - how long the ban and how big the fine.

 

[Benotti69]

Imagine if they did have to do that, though. We're all basically very trusting about our food, aren't we?

I was surprised WADA went and did a bit of meat testing. I just thought it was silly, beneath them and obviously proved nada.

I think we all need to move on to the space where there is still some room for bargaining - how long the ban and how big the fine.

that leads to different lengths of bans for different nationalities. Look at Di Luca, cera use, thrid time tested positive and less than 2 year ban

what about FuYi and a 2 year ban and people dont think Contador should be banned?

 

[L'arriviste]

that leads to different lengths of bans for different nationalities. Look at Di Luca, cera use, thrid time tested positive and less than 2 year ban

what about FuYi and a 2 year ban and people dont think Contador should be banned?

Quite right. I was being a bit sarcastic. I suppose consistency in sentencing is still too much to ask for.

Just as a sidenote (because I wasn't following cycling at that time) did Di Luca get a shorter ban because of time already served on suspension?

 

[El Pistolero]

But there is a big difference between the probability of finding clen in food in China and the probability of finding it in food in Spain, or France

Only he wasn't in China. Duh.

 

[Benotti69]

Quite right. I was being a bit sarcastic. I suppose consistency in sentencing is still too much to ask for.

Just as a sidenote (because I wasn't following cycling at that time) did Di Luca get a shorter ban because of time already served on suspension?

nah Di Luca got a shorter sentence after he allegedly assisted the CONI in Italy.

He should have got 8 years. I saw him out training on his own the other day, in all black no logos and on his old De Rosa.....Usually he adorned by his bike shop 'Kyklos' and on a wiliers...

 

[Barrus]

Only he wasn't in China. Duh.

The test wasn't administered in China, however the chance of him being contaminated with it in China is still there. And this chance is a whole of a lot bigger than the chance that Bertie was contaminated by meat sold within the EU

 

[bike_framed]

I was surprised WADA went and did a bit of meat testing.

But did they? No - if you believe Contador’s legal team:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contadors-legal-team-hit-back-at-wada-report

"In the documentation sent there is not evidence that WADA has made any kind of analysis at the butcher in question, much less at the slaughterhouses which are mentioned."