Carboncrank said:
CC you are embarrassing yourself even further, stick to the Lance thread & Livestrong forum.
No offence, but this thread is about Contador 2010.
CC you are embarrassing yourself even further, stick to the Lance thread & Livestrong forum.
No offence, but this thread is about Contador 2010.
peloton said:
What I'm talking about about is clearly about Alberto and his accusations.
It is Alberto and his clan that made these claims, not Lance.
The discussion of it belongs here, not in the Lance thread.
If you are uncomfortable talking about it, don't.
If you are a fan of Alberto you should be embarrassed that he seems to need to be seen as both the victim and victor. I guess winning wasn't enough to cure his insecurities.
- Aug 13, 2009
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Carboncrank said:
This has been covered over and over and over. It has been explained in detail. Johann and Lance lied. At this point you either have serious reading comprehension issues to go along with your anger management issues and persecution complex or you are being intentionally obtuse in order to derail any substantive discussion
Race Radio said:
The only thing I know from you is that you know how to type.
You are big about talking about explaining in detail but you never explain in detail. You just type.
All the name calling you can muster isn't going to change that.
- Mar 17, 2009
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Carboncrank said:
Per the articleS, the discovery was made by AC's mechanic the day before the TdF started (so July 3rd). The public was made aware of it some time in November (I think). The front wheel was never an issue.
It happened. Get over it.
EDIT: The relevant point was Stage 1 (monaco) NOT Annecy, which is the stage (18) captured in your photos.
Publicus said:
So, let me get this straight, he bought wheels, maybe from Carbonsports, overnight, got them badged the day of the start, threw them onto a time trial bike, which by nature is harder to ride, had never ridden them before, and raced them in the Tour de France Prologue.
Is that your story?
I'll look at some more pics from stage one but I posted the best one I can find of what looks like the same bike and wheels already and it does NOT look different than wheels from the other Astana riders or even some of the ones I find on other teams.
There's probably a million pictures out there of the 2 TTs, and there's nobody that can point to one single picture and say, "this is what kind of wheel that is and here's how I know."
This all happens in public. They roll the bikes out and warm up on them in full view of the press and public, roll them to the start house where a horde of photographers are, ride out and race on public streets in front of a huge crowd and the best you have is a story about an unnammed "Spanish mechanic" and Alberto's cryptic reply, "Johann knows the truth".
Poor poor Alberto. Victim of treachery from the very same DS that guided him to 3 other Grand Tour wins. I really hope his new team helps him get over the trauma and insecurities of riding on one of the greatest stage racing team in history.
Why would not the wheelmaker in Wheelgate come out and say yes we sold this kind of wheel to Alberto before the tour.
I'd think any worries about losing Radio Shack's wheel business might be slightly outweighed by the prospect of sales to the other 6 billion or so people on the planet.
I'd think any worries about losing Radio Shack's wheel business might be slightly outweighed by the prospect of sales to the other 6 billion or so people on the planet.
- Aug 13, 2009
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Carboncrank said:
Why would a grown man continue to troll message boards after being banned multiple times?
- Mar 17, 2009
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Carboncrank said:
Not my story. As far as what has been reported, you are close. The wheel was received the same day and prepped that evening. The Monaco Time Trila did not start at 8 am and if I recall correctly AC made several
loops of the course with his bike (as did the other Astana team members). Just the facts as reported in MARCA.
- Nov 7, 2009
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gatete said:
If you want a mod. go to the main forum page, go to the bottom where it says "View Forum Leaders".
There ya go!
Have a nice day.
- Aug 13, 2009
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Carboncrank said:If you want a mod. go to the main forum page, go to the bottom where it says "View Forum Leaders".
There ya go!
Have a nice day.
That is the troll way of saying that he will just get another IP address and start up one of his many usernames.
Has the complete Marca dossier on the subject (in Josu Garai's blog) been translated?
I do not mind doing it...
I do not mind doing it...
These are the most important points in the article:
"Trek purchased, from another supplier, a fixed number of special wheels, one of which was for Alberto. However, someone in Alberto's entourage noticed that Lance's wheels had the LiveStrong logo painted all over it and told AC that these wheels were better than his. Alberto took notice, called Trek and bought other wheels."
"It all started the day before the Tour, when one of Astana's mechanics that were putting together the TT bikes noticed that two of the back wheels provided by Trek were different from everyone else's. Not thinking any of it, this mechanic went on with his business thinking that one of the wheels was for Alberto and the other was for Lance, but upon using one of these "special" wheels to assemble AC's bike he was told by the Trek mechanic that both wheels were for Lance, although he had nothing to worry about because they were the same, only the logos changed. Without hesitation, the Spanish mechanic took one of the wheels and wheighted it. Since these two wheels were 150 grams lighter than the ones Trek had provided everyone else with, the mechanic took one and said 'one for Lance and one for Alberto', to which the Trek mechanic replied 'I'll have to talk to Lance first'.
Seeing that there was someting very wrong with this situation, the mechanic told this person to not worry about it. And, after talking to Alberto, the later thought that a wheel wasn't worth fighting over and decided to buy his own wheels, the very same wheels Lance had. Without wasting any time the mechanic called the provider and bought the wheels for AC for 5.000 Euros (~ USD 7,000.00). The wheels eventually arrived before dinner that very same day and were applied pastic, the special glue that is applied to the tubulars and were left to dry overnight. The next morning, the same day of the start of the TdF, Contador's mechanic gave the two extra lightweight Lightweight (the actual name of the company that makes these special) wheels to the Trek mechanic to paint the Bontrager logos on them. And this is how AC and LA ended up starting the TdF on equal footing, one not having to do a thing and the other having to scramble to get equal quality equipment".
"A couple days later LA ended up using the same wheel in the TTT, but AC did not. Though, during the Annecy TT, both cyclists ended up using the same wheel, although Lance used a different logo."
"To those in the know we will say that all Astana riders, except Lance Armstrong, had access to and actually used the Lightweight 240 brand, while the Texan was given the more advanced and newer version, the Lightweight 190, with ceramic bearings, approximately 15% lighter and 30% more rigid due to the way the carbon fibers were laid out (in a criss-cross pattern). Only AC's mechanic, who is not the best mechanic in the world but is one of the best, could have noticed such a small difference like that. But he did."
And the rest is history.
"Trek purchased, from another supplier, a fixed number of special wheels, one of which was for Alberto. However, someone in Alberto's entourage noticed that Lance's wheels had the LiveStrong logo painted all over it and told AC that these wheels were better than his. Alberto took notice, called Trek and bought other wheels."
"It all started the day before the Tour, when one of Astana's mechanics that were putting together the TT bikes noticed that two of the back wheels provided by Trek were different from everyone else's. Not thinking any of it, this mechanic went on with his business thinking that one of the wheels was for Alberto and the other was for Lance, but upon using one of these "special" wheels to assemble AC's bike he was told by the Trek mechanic that both wheels were for Lance, although he had nothing to worry about because they were the same, only the logos changed. Without hesitation, the Spanish mechanic took one of the wheels and wheighted it. Since these two wheels were 150 grams lighter than the ones Trek had provided everyone else with, the mechanic took one and said 'one for Lance and one for Alberto', to which the Trek mechanic replied 'I'll have to talk to Lance first'.
Seeing that there was someting very wrong with this situation, the mechanic told this person to not worry about it. And, after talking to Alberto, the later thought that a wheel wasn't worth fighting over and decided to buy his own wheels, the very same wheels Lance had. Without wasting any time the mechanic called the provider and bought the wheels for AC for 5.000 Euros (~ USD 7,000.00). The wheels eventually arrived before dinner that very same day and were applied pastic, the special glue that is applied to the tubulars and were left to dry overnight. The next morning, the same day of the start of the TdF, Contador's mechanic gave the two extra lightweight Lightweight (the actual name of the company that makes these special) wheels to the Trek mechanic to paint the Bontrager logos on them. And this is how AC and LA ended up starting the TdF on equal footing, one not having to do a thing and the other having to scramble to get equal quality equipment".
"A couple days later LA ended up using the same wheel in the TTT, but AC did not. Though, during the Annecy TT, both cyclists ended up using the same wheel, although Lance used a different logo."
"To those in the know we will say that all Astana riders, except Lance Armstrong, had access to and actually used the Lightweight 240 brand, while the Texan was given the more advanced and newer version, the Lightweight 190, with ceramic bearings, approximately 15% lighter and 30% more rigid due to the way the carbon fibers were laid out (in a criss-cross pattern). Only AC's mechanic, who is not the best mechanic in the world but is one of the best, could have noticed such a small difference like that. But he did."
And the rest is history.
Maybe I missed something here... but I'll just start from what I know about the incident. Johan Bruyneel, the quintesential unbiased middleman, said: "The members of the team, and above all, the leaders of the team, all had the same material. The truth is I am not sure where this information came from. I can guarantee you that they all had the same material".
We know that ALL of Astana, except LA, were initially given Lightweight 240 for their TT bike's back wheel, while Lance was given Lightweight 190. The later is lighter and more rigid.
From this OBVIOUS lie, we can deduce the following: Both LA knew about this and JB did not or both knew. In all fairness to JB, Lance has always had a very close relationship with Trek, you can watch all episodes of Chasing Lance in the old OLN and now VS and see that Trek was always experimenting on new materials and concepts eventually used by LA in his TdF wins. No secret here. Thus, is there a posibility that Lance "sneaked" these technological advances without Johan knowing about it? I mean, I doubt Lance did not know of this, as he is extremely anal (even psychotic at times) about bike components and I cannot imagine Trek giving him something he hasn't tried.
Watcha think?
We know that ALL of Astana, except LA, were initially given Lightweight 240 for their TT bike's back wheel, while Lance was given Lightweight 190. The later is lighter and more rigid.
From this OBVIOUS lie, we can deduce the following: Both LA knew about this and JB did not or both knew. In all fairness to JB, Lance has always had a very close relationship with Trek, you can watch all episodes of Chasing Lance in the old OLN and now VS and see that Trek was always experimenting on new materials and concepts eventually used by LA in his TdF wins. No secret here. Thus, is there a posibility that Lance "sneaked" these technological advances without Johan knowing about it? I mean, I doubt Lance did not know of this, as he is extremely anal (even psychotic at times) about bike components and I cannot imagine Trek giving him something he hasn't tried.
Watcha think?
- Mar 11, 2009
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Unfortunately both believable and yet unbelievable...
We know how much these micro differences make in the minds of cyclists.
This just reiterates what many here already feel about L.A.
A total ****er!
We know how much these micro differences make in the minds of cyclists.
This just reiterates what many here already feel about L.A.
A total ****er!
dolophonic said:
Exactly, knowing how on-edge you are when you're peaked for a grand tour and how big of a deal trust in your team is... I can see how Alberto's trust in JB and LA just disipated in thin air after something like that and what took place at Le Grand Motte.
I mean, it falls neatly into place when putting together the big puzzle, JB's and LA's master plan to put Lance in the # 1 spot.
The subsequent reaction by Lance saying stuff like Contador "is surrounded by yes-men", in my opinion, has bbbbuuuusssstttteeeedddd written all over it.
- Jul 5, 2009
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Señor_Contador said:
The funny thing is that the impact that the different wheels would have had on the race is negligable. But because Contador found out that they were given different wheels, that had a major impact on the race. Both from the psychological warfare aspect and also the fact that he knew his team were trying to screw him over.
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