Contador 2010

[Bike Boy]

@theswordsman

I am not quite sure how to respond. That was a very personal post and it demands respect.

Amd I was trying to help keep this a thread about Contador

You are absolutely right let’s keep it on topic.

It remains to be seen whether Martinelli and Sanquer can mastermind Contador to victory.
JB is a genius in that respect. But of course Contador also know How JB thinks. Maybe he can take advantage of that.

Back onto teams though, it was Armstrong that recruited everyone so that his team could dominate and just set the old postal train to ween the field down so that then he could attack and take time. I believe that if he tries to do that this season it won't work. That will suit Contador just fine, cos he has an enormous kick, that will drop everybody except maybe a doped Iban Mayo but he ain't around at the moment.

If he wants any chance against Contador he needs his teammates to attack again and again and again, That is the only way i can see it happening to have him covering attacks. But again this leads back to what i pointed out before. Is this Team Armstrong or team Let the road decide??

I agree with your analysis and when you suggest covering attacks I think we can agree that it's not what we normally associate with JB.

Although I think you have omitted a very important aspect. JB and LA, knows better than anybody else that opportunities sometimes arise out of nothing.
Expect to see RadioShack exploit every possibility that presents it self especially in the first week.
May it be cobblestones, crosswinds etc.
It is hard to imaging Contador being trapped or commit, a tactical mistake (considering he will have 8 riders to protect him) but no doubt RadioShack will try really hard.

 

[thehog]

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
MADRID -- Tour de France champion Alberto Contador says the unusually cold weather in Europe is hampering his preseason training plans.

The Astana rider said Tuesday his training so far has been "difficult to sort out."

"The winter we've been having in Europe this year - and especially in my area - I can't remember one as bad as this one," Contador said of his hometown Pinto, which is south of Madrid and been hit by freezing temperatures and snow.

But the Spanish rider still feels he's in good shape going into Astana's 10-day preseason training camp Thursday at Calpe, Spain.

The 2007 and 2009 Tour de France champion will start his season at the Tour of Algarve in Portugal in mid-February, but doesn't believe he'll win that race because of the lack of training.

"This year, I don't think I'll arrive there at the same level as last year," Contador said. "But it will be a good warm-up for the rest of the races."

Contador expects to compete in Paris-Nice in March and perhaps the Tour of Catalonia and Tour of the Basque Country. He has not ruled out the Giro d'Italia or Spanish Vuelta, but said his priority is the Tour de France.

Contador said Astana has built a good team around him since the departure of Lance Armstrong and Levi Leipheimer.

"We've managed to put together a pretty competitive team that is quite complete, one that is at the level that the Tour requires," he said.

 

[Bike Boy]

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
MADRID -- Tour de France champion Alberto Contador says the unusually cold weather in Europe is hampering his preseason training plans.

The Astana rider said Tuesday his training so far has been "difficult to sort out."

"The winter we've been having in Europe this year - and especially in my area - I can't remember one as bad as this one," Contador said of his hometown Pinto, which is south of Madrid and been hit by freezing temperatures and snow.

But the Spanish rider still feels he's in good shape going into Astana's 10-day preseason training camp Thursday at Calpe, Spain.

The 2007 and 2009 Tour de France champion will start his season at the Tour of Algarve in Portugal in mid-February, but doesn't believe he'll win that race because of the lack of training.

"This year, I don't think I'll arrive there at the same level as last year," Contador said. "But it will be a good warm-up for the rest of the races."

Contador expects to compete in Paris-Nice in March and perhaps the Tour of Catalonia and Tour of the Basque Country. He has not ruled out the Giro d'Italia or Spanish Vuelta, but said his priority is the Tour de France.

Contador said Astana has built a good team around him since the departure of Lance Armstrong and Levi Leipheimer.

"We've managed to put together a pretty competitive team that is quite complete, one that is at the level that the Tour requires," he said.

Well Contador won the Giro coming out of a vacation on the beech....
Maybe he is not lying this time, but it will of course have no effect on the major goals of the season.

If he's out of shape in Algarve then he will still have plenty of time to make before P-N

 

[richwagmn]

bike boy............not wanting to get into the whole thing i just have one small nugget for you to consider, as far as team strength is concerned are you aware astana boasts six grand tour top spots.........with 3 different riders......while radioshack have seven........all with the same rider...........just thought i would throw it out there........enjoy............

I don't understand why some are writing off Astana. Seems like a perfectly decent team to me. Assuming Vino does what he says, who wouldn't want that team riding you through the mountains?

 

[Polish]

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
MADRID -- Tour de France champion Alberto Contador says the unusually cold weather in Europe is hampering his preseason training plans.

The Astana rider said Tuesday his training so far has been "difficult to sort out."

"The winter we've been having in Europe this year - and especially in my area - I can't remember one as bad as this one," Contador said of his hometown Pinto, which is south of Madrid and been hit by freezing temperatures and snow..

Alberto needs to leave Pinto and go training in Hawaii or Arizona or South Australia.

He has a lot to learn....

 

[Angliru]

I don't understand why some are writing off Astana. Seems like a perfectly decent team to me. Assuming Vino does what he says, who wouldn't want that team riding you through the mountains?

I think the primary reasons are:
-1. Vino still is unproven as far as if he can get back to the level of the elite or even the 2nd tier of contenders. He's shown that he still has it to a certain degree in single day events but for entire grand tours or even stage races in general he still a question mark. Prior to his suspension he was beginning to show his age a bit in the mountains of the grand tours & especially the Tour.
2 years later we would be wise to proceed with caution when predicting the level of support he'll be able to provide.
-2. Pereiro IMO was showing his best form I'd seen since his Tour win. He was climbing extraordinarily well just prior to his horrible crash. Since then he himself had questioned his motivation and it showed in his performances. He even considered retirement if he couldn't sign on with a decent team.
Some think that he's washed up, but I personally am going to hope for the best and think that he's found his motivation in riding in support of Contador
and proving to the doubters that he still has it.

The rest of the likely support crew with the exception of Noval and Davis are unproven at the Tour.(This last sentence was mistake of which I've admitted to later in this thread).

 

[Publicus]

I think the primary reasons are:
-1. Vino still is umproven as far as if he can get back to the level of the elite or even the 2nd tier of contenders. He's shown that he still has it to a certain degree in single day events but for entire grand tours or even stage races in general he still a question mark. Prior to his suspension he beginning to show his age a bit in the mountains of the grand tours especially the Tour.
2 years later we would be wise to proceed with caution when predicting the level of support he'll be able to provide.
-2. Pereiro IMO was showing his best form I'd seen since his Tour win. He was climbing extraordinarily well just prior to his horrible crash. Since then he himself has questioned his motivation and it showed in his performances. He even considered retirement if he couldn't sign on with a decent time.
Some think that he's washed up, but I personally am going to hope for the best and think that he's found his motivation in riding in support of Contador
and proving to the doubters that he still has it.

The rest of the likely support crew with the exception of Noval and Davis are unproven at the Tour.

What do you mean when you say unproven?

EDIT: I only ask because several of the members have ridden at least one Tour de France (and a number of other GTs). Grivko has ridden at least 3 TdFs (2005-7); De la Fuente has ridden at least 3 (2006-08); Tiralongo has ridden at least two (2006, 2008); Jufre (08), Navarro (07), Iglinskiy (07) and Stangelj (05) have each ridden at least one.

 

[KazakhNeRider]

What do you mean when you say unproven?

EDIT: I only ask because several of the members have ridden at least one Tour de France (and a number of other GTs). Grivko has ridden at least 3 TdFs (2005-7); De la Fuente has ridden at least 3 (2006-08); Tiralongo has ridden at least two (2006, 2008); Jufre (08), Navarro (07), Iglinskiy (07) and Stangelj (05) have each ridden at least one.

Nobody tells about Fofonov, he's got quite big grand-tours experience - he has ridden all - TdF, Giro and Vuelta with Cofidis and CrAgr. In 2008 he was 20th in GC, but this vexing unfortunate oversight crashed all finally

 

[Publicus]

Nobody tells about Fofonov, he's got quite big grand-tours experience - he has ridden all - TdF, Giro and Vuelta with Cofidis and CrAgr. In 2008 he was 20th in GC, but this vexing unfortunate oversight crashed all finally

Thanks for pointing that out (though Im sure he wants everyone to forget that he was kicked out of the 2008 TdF for doping). I didn't even begin to touch upon the experience the team has in the other grand tours.

The team has grand tour experience.

 

[Angliru]

What do you mean when you say unproven?

EDIT: I only ask because several of the members have ridden at least one Tour de France (and a number of other GTs). Grivko has ridden at least 3 TdFs (2005-7); De la Fuente has ridden at least 3 (2006-08); Tiralongo has ridden at least two (2006, 2008); Jufre (08), Navarro (07), Iglinskiy (07) and Stangelj (05) have each ridden at least one.

Yeah, that last sentence was a mistake, although I still stand behind the rest of the post (but on second reading--boy are there a lot of typo's of which I must correct for my own self respect).

 

[Publicus]

Yeah, that last sentence was a mistake, although I still stand behind the rest of the post (but on second reading--boy are there a lot of typo's of which I must correct for my own self respect).

I agreed with much of what you wrote--and the typos weren't noticeable.

 

[Angliru]

I agreed with much of what you wrote--and the typos weren't noticeable.

You're being kind but I'm going to blame it all on my lack of caffeine.

 

[Publicus]

Instead of posting a new thread, I figure this is as good a place as any to link to this article/interview with Zubeldia regarding AC (acknowledging how hard it will be to beat him at the TdF).

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/01/news/radioshacks-zubeldia-%E2%80%98it-will-be-hard-to-beat-contador%E2%80%99_102363

What jumped out at me was the following quote:

“When Johan told me at the Tour that he wanted to continue counting on me the next few years, I saw it as the best option for me,” he said. “The way the team works convinced me. I believe that I’ve adapted very well to this philosophy and that my performance was good.”

I just further confirms how full of sh!t both Lance and JB were last year. They were recruiting the team DURING the Tour? That's just unbelievable....

 

[Bike Boy]

I just further confirms how full of sh!t both Lance and JB were last year. They were recruiting the team DURING the Tour? That's just unbelievable....

Is that such a big deal?

A lot of JB and LA's actions are questionable but please don't turn every stone.

I think there is a far more importent question of moral, to be considered in the case of Wiggins breaking out of his contract with Garmin

 

[Bike Boy]

Another Question that I think will suit to this thread

How vulnerable will Contador be in the big Mountains next july?
he has a lot of reasonable climbers on his team:

Navarro
Hernandez
Periero
De La Fuente

I am famous for underestimating the strengh of that team, but I think he (Contador) could be left alone, when the favourite group reduces to about 10 riders.

On the contrary it is very likely that the schlecks, Levi, Lance and Klöden would still be among them. Maybe even three Liquigas riders (Nibali, Kreuziger and Basso).

Thats an unfortunate cocktail, unless of course Contador proofs to be superhuman yet again.

 

[Kingsley A]

Is that such a big deal?

A lot of JB and LA's actions are questionable but please don't turn every stone.

I think there is a far more importent question of moral, to be considered in the case of Wiggins breaking out of his contract with Garmin

I completely disagree. In almost every industry outside of sport a contract of employment can be be broken simply by handing in your notice and serving your notice period. This was the basis for the judgement in the Bosman Ruling which remains an important part of European law.

I agree that much about the Wiggins transfer appears ugly (and the Swift one too) but there is clear legal precedent for both of them.

On the other hand the formation of Radio Shack is much more along the lines of in the middle of a successful product launch, the key engineer and marketing guy decide they have a new patent waiting in the wings and so poach what they consider to be the key support staff and leave to form a new company.

Whilst Sky's actions may have been ethically questionable, Radio Shacks were down right immoral and had it been any industry other than sport the SEC and it's global equivalents would have given the green light to Sky whilst coming down like a ton of bricks on RS.

Much as someone who wants to be behind the first British PT team, I don't like the way that Sky have handled the Swift and Wiggins transfers, RS's complete asset stripping of Astana was far worse.

 

[Bike Boy]

I completely disagree. In almost every industry outside of sport a contract of employment can be be broken simply by handing in your notice and serving your notice period. This was the basis for the judgement in the Bosman Ruling which remains an important part of European law.

I agree that much about the Wiggins transfer appears ugly (and the Swift one too) but there is clear legal precedent for both of them.

On the other hand the formation of Radio Shack is much more along the lines of in the middle of a successful product launch, the key engineer and marketing guy decide they have a new patent waiting in the wings and so poach what they consider to be the key support staff and leave to form a new company.

Whilst Sky's actions may have been ethically questionable, Radio Shacks were down right immoral and had it been any industry other than sport the SEC and it's global equivalents would have given the green light to Sky whilst coming down like a ton of bricks on RS.

Much as someone who wants to be behind the first British PT team, I don't like the way that Sky have handled the Swift and Wiggins transfers, RS's complete asset stripping of Astana was far worse.

Okay I don't have a clue about all those business rules. And you probably made me realise that I didn't sound to clever.

Would you care to explain which actions do you percieve as particular critical/controversial in the process of forming the new team (RS)?
And maybe give a reasonable explanation?

allthough I will explain why I said what I said:

Doing the tour 2009 LA and JB had not landed a sponsor yet, which leads me to conclude that they didn't have anything specific to offer Zubeldia.
In that perspective it does sound rather innocent when JB says "I would like to continue to count on you"

I have a very hard time imaging things like that is unusual in the pro peloton

maybe this is the wrong thread but for me it would be very interesting to learn more in that regard

 

[krebs303]

live Alberto Contador press conference tomorrow, January 14th, at 10am PST.
(1:00pm Eastern Time, 7:00pm European Central Time) to hear from Team Astana's Alberto Contador. Have questions? Send them to us via Twitter @iamspecialized or post them to our facebook fan page

http://ow.ly/W5RM

 

[BroDeal]

On the other hand the formation of Radio Shack is much more along the lines of in the middle of a successful product launch, the key engineer and marketing guy decide they have a new patent waiting in the wings and so poach what they consider to be the key support staff and leave to form a new company.

This sort of thing occasionally results in lawsuits in the U.S. when the original company is left crippled.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Okay I don't have a clue about all those business rules. And you probably made me realise that I didn't sound to clever.

Would you care to explain which actions do you percieve as particular critical/controversial in the process of forming the new team (RS)?
And maybe give a reasonable explanation?

allthough I will explain why I said what I said:

Doing the tour 2009 LA and JB had not landed a sponsor yet, which leads me to conclude that they didn't have anything specific to offer Zubeldia.
In that perspective it does sound rather innocent when JB says "I would like to continue to count on you"

I have a very hard time imaging things like that is unusual in the pro peloton

maybe this is the wrong thread but for me it would be very interesting to learn more in that regard

There's little question that, had this occurred entirely within the US, you would have seen a lawsuit being slapped on RS which likely would have included a TRO (temporary restraining order).

 

[Bike Boy]

Ok thanks

But I still don't understand why Astana couldn't force Klöden, other riders and staf members to fulfil their contracts?

Do we know enough about what took place between JB and the money men from Kazakhstan during those negotiations to draw that conclusion?
If they reached an agreement that satisfied both parts (this is probably the part where I'm wrong), then, I can't see the problem.

 

[Angliru]

Thats an unfortunate cocktail, unless of course Contador proofs to be superhuman yet again.

Being the strongest in the mountains doesn't make a rider "superhuman". Would that also make Andy Schleck almost "superhuman" and Armstrong "superhuman" for doing what he did at his age? The implications aren't exactly complimentary.

 

[Angliru]

Doing the tour 2009 LA and JB had not landed a sponsor yet, which leads me to conclude that they didn't have anything specific to offer Zubeldia.
In that perspective it does sound rather innocent when JB says "I would like to continue to count on you"

You must have forgotten that Armstrong made his announcement of landing Radio Shack as the sponsor for HIS new team near the end of the Tour. Which means that they were likely ironing out the paperwork during the Tour.
He even confirmed in an article in a post Tour issue of Cycling Weekly magazine, and I quote: "He confirmed he would probably ride the Tour in 2010, but probably with a new team, built around him, and without the younger, stronger, livelier Spaniard to hold him back".

 

[Angliru]

live Alberto Contador press conference tomorrow, January 14th, at 10am PST.
(1:00pm Eastern Time, 7:00pm European Central Time) to hear from Team Astana's Alberto Contador. Have questions? Send them to us via Twitter @iamspecialized or post them to our facebook fan page

http://ow.ly/W5RM

Thanks for the tip!

 

[kurtinsc]

There's little question that, had this occurred entirely within the US, you would have seen a lawsuit being slapped on RS which likely would have included a TRO (temporary restraining order).

I'm not sure this is correct.

Contract employees are allowed to work on setting up their next contract while engaged in their current contract in the US. They can't actually WORK for the new company most of the time, but they certainly can negotiate a work agreement.

These aren't "permanent" employees... they have a set expiration date on their contracts.


The only one where there is question is Bruyneel. He's not being paid to ride... he's being paid to run the entire team. Setting up another team while doing so might be a breach of contract. But none of the riders would be in any trouble.