Contador acquitted

[sniper]

I can't wait until Contador gets busted and cycling proves it's winning the war against doping by giving the title to the next guy in line who didn't get caught.

Kim Andersen, bring your boy down.

the thing is, you got juicers (e.g. Sastre, Pereiro, Indurain), and you got obvious juicers (Riis, Ulrich, LA, Pantani, Virenque, you name them).
AC has promoted to the latter category ages ago.

I agree with your comment, though. AC losing his title to Schleck would be like Floyd passing his on to Pereiro. (i.e. title goes from an obvious to a slightly less obvious juicer.)

 

[c&cfan]

the thing is..

you dont have a non-juicer capable of wining something big. (even in the amateur category). in the history of cycling, we never had one (maybe one..)

so?thats how it is..

at least catch the heavy juicers (ricco etc, those that use epo cera and similar stuff or something that is unique to them ( à la LA)) and i suppose those are becoming extinct.
in fact, i dont think AC is one of those (if he is, ban him for life.). but i wouldnt be surprised if shleck is. it's literally in the guy's family.

contador at least can make history while being in the same level of dope as the others. i dont know about anyone able to do that in the modern era.

even in the old times, who did it? maybe lemond.. the transition guy from the old era to the new one. but i dont belive that he was different. simple as that. in fact he didnt even made history. did he beat any record or something similar?

 

[hrotha]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sns-rt-ouksp-uk-cycling-ucitre7241h8-20110305,0,3968903.story

We have to give our decision before March 24," McQuaid told a small group of reporters, adding the UCI only received the full file a few days ago and has 30 days to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

"Our principal lawyer...will start working on the Contador case on Monday. I can't give an opinion on whether he is guilty or not. But the Contador case is difficult for the sport. It's like a cloud over our head."

I wonder what their principal lawyer had been doing that was so important. Negotiating with Chade O. Grey?

 

[c&cfan]

bang bang today.

 

[Andynonomous]

"the UCI only received the full file a few days ago"


Again, delays because of "document transfers". These documents should not have to be "prepared", since the RFEC had already justified their decision (and presumably prepared all documentation to "prove" their case before it was publicly announced).

This smacks of some sort of "arraignment" being made behind the scenes. With the eternal political rangling during McQuaid's tenure, who would expect otherwise ?

 

[Oldman]

"the UCI only received the full file a few days ago"


Again, delays because of "document transfers". These documents should not have to be "prepared", since the RFEC had already justified their decision (and presumably prepared all documentation to "prove" their case before it was publicly announced).

This smacks of some sort of "arraignment" being made behind the scenes. With the eternal political rangling during McQuaid's tenure, who would expect otherwise ?

Expect nothing less until the UCI is virtually gutted. Otherwise you continue the situation that CC seemed to find tolerable:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the thing is..

you dont have a non-juicer capable of wining something big. (even in the amateur category). in the history of cycling, we never had one (maybe one..)

so?thats how it is..

at least catch the heavy juicers (ricco etc, those that use epo cera and similar stuff or something that is unique to them ( à la LA)) and i suppose those are becoming extinct.
in fact, i dont think AC is one of those (if he is, ban him for life.). but i wouldnt be surprised if shleck is. it's literally in the guy's family.

contador at least can make history while being in the same level of dope as the others. i dont know about anyone able to do that in the modern era.

even in the old times, who did it? maybe lemond.. the transition guy from the old era to the new one. but i dont belive that he was different. simple as that. in fact he didnt even made history. did he beat any record or something similar?

This is the attitude that can't be accepted. Assuming historical ignorance would allow for practices of the past it in no means suggests that is the way of the future, does it?

 

[Escarabajo]

the thing is..

you dont have a non-juicer capable of wining something big. (even in the amateur category). in the history of cycling, we never had one (maybe one..)

so?thats how it is..
...

How do you know????? prove it please. Do you at least have the VO2 max of all the riders at their peak? Do you have the Lactate threshold of all the riders? Do you have a personality tests of all the riders? etc, etc, etc. And that is just a portion of how to win in race clean. It is very difficult to prove what you said with todays doping programs.

 

[c&cfan]

How do you know????? prove it please. Do you at least have the VO2 max of all the riders at their peak? Do you have the Lactate threshold of all the riders? Do you have a personality tests of all the riders? etc, etc, etc. And that is just a portion of how to win in race clean. It is very difficult to prove what you said with todays doping programs.

that's life my friend. in order to be great in something, you can only be a good person for those that are close to you (wife, kids, parents, some friends). to the rest, you have to at least be 33% son of your father, 33%son of your mother and the other 33% son of the b*tch. even if there isnt "dope" there will always be "doping".

and to answer to your post and to oldman's post, what is really wrong is all the lying and BS about it. it's the human nature to dope. fact.
but to say something like: "i hate contador because he is a cheater" and then "i miss merckx, he was the best ever" is the real "doping" and the source of all this hate about this sport.

most people around here, dont know that contador is virgin mary comparing to merckx, just because they are the definition of the world "garbage". no one has to be smart after you know some of this sport's history to understand this.

there isnt clean champions even in amateur races. there never was one.

but there is clean men. in my eyes, ricco, di luca, LA, merckx (the dirtiest) and lemond if he is lying, arent clean men.

but anquetil for example, is. even if he wasnt a clean champion.

i hope that based on this you can understand my point of view and please respect it. but feel free to disagree.

 

[Oldman]

that's life my friend. in order to be great in something, you can only be a good person for those that are close to you (wife, kids, parents, some friends). to the rest, you have to at least be 33% son of your father, 33%son of your mother and the other 33% son of the b*tch. even if there isnt "dope" there will always be "doping".

and to answer to your post and to oldman's post, what is really wrong is all the lying and BS about it. it's the human nature to dope. fact.
but to say something like: "i hate contador because he is a cheater" and then "i miss merckx, he was the best ever" is the real "doping" and the source of all this hate about this sport.

most people around here, dont know that contador is virgin mary comparing to merckx, just because they are the definition of the world "garbage". no one has to be smart after you know some of this sport's history to understand this.

there isnt clean champions even in amateur races. there never was one.

but there is clean men. in my eyes, ricco, di luca, LA, merckx (the dirtiest) and lemond if he is lying, arent clean men.

but anquetil for example, is. even if he wasnt a clean champion.

i hope that based on this you can understand my point of view and please respect it. but feel free to disagree.

How you came by your opinion is uncertain but the justifications that can be made based on your "fact" would allow for any kind of behavior. That you so strongly believe in self-created facts means you aren't offering an opinion so much as your own reality.

 

[Andynonomous]

that's life my friend. in order to be great in something, you can only be a good person for those that are close to you (wife, kids, parents, some friends). to the rest, you have to at least be 33% son of your father, 33%son of your mother and the other 33% son of the b*tch. even if there isnt "dope" there will always be "doping".

and to answer to your post and to oldman's post, what is really wrong is all the lying and BS about it. it's the human nature to dope. fact.
but to say something like: "i hate contador because he is a cheater" and then "i miss merckx, he was the best ever" is the real "doping" and the source of all this hate about this sport.

most people around here, dont know that contador is virgin mary comparing to merckx, just because they are the definition of the world "garbage". no one has to be smart after you know some of this sport's history to understand this.

there isnt clean champions even in amateur races. there never was one.

but there is clean men. in my eyes, ricco, di luca, LA, merckx (the dirtiest) and lemond if he is lying, arent clean men.

but anquetil for example, is. even if he wasnt a clean champion.

i hope that based on this you can understand my point of view and please respect it. but feel free to disagree.

I fully understand your point of view.

It is :

"I like Contador, and I will defend him regardless. I will use :
a) Technicalities (only 50 pictograms man),
b) Legalities (the plasticizer test was unofficial, so we have to ignore it),
c) Rationalities (I suspect that others dope more, and he would still win if he and others were still clean)."


No matter how you dress it up, you are still defending a CHEATER !

 

[Escarabajo]

. even if there isnt "dope" there will always be "doping".

and to answer to your post and to oldman's post, what is really wrong is all the lying and BS about it. it's the human nature to dope. fact.
but

...

there isnt clean champions even in amateur races. there never was one.

but there is clean men. in my eyes, ricco, di luca, LA, merckx (the dirtiest) and lemond if he is lying, arent clean men.

but anquetil for example, is. even if he wasnt a clean champion.

i hope that based on this you can understand my point of view and please respect it. but feel free to disagree.

I think that some of what you said is true, specially the part about doping always existing, but it does not mean that I have to accept it. Maybe a little but not widespread and endemic

Still does not answer my question. How do you know that a clean rider cannot win in a pro-race today? maybe you are talking about Grand Tours. You have to be more specific.

that's life my friend. in order to be great in something, you can only be a good person for those that are close to you (wife, kids, parents, some friends). to the rest, you have to at least be 33% son of your father, 33%son of your mother and the other 33% son of the b*tch

Now if you are like that with your friends or co-workers you will have to expect the same behavior from them towards you. I think you are going in the wrong direction, IMHO.

to say something like: "i hate contador because he is a cheater" and then "i miss merckx, he was the best ever" is the real "doping" and the source of all this hate about this sport.

Now you are just trying to catch a silly argument. Who said that in the Clinic??

 

[c&cfan]

I fully understand your point of view.

It is :

"I like Contador, and I will defend him regardless. I will use :
a) Technicalities (only 50 pictograms man),
b) Legalities (the plasticizer test was unofficial, so we have to ignore it),
c) Rationalities (I suspect that others dope more, and he would still win if he and others were still clean)."


No matter how you dress it up, you are still defending a CHEATER !

yes.

he is a cheater. and, if i was the boss, he would never be allowed to race again. do you know why? because of the lying about "i never took drugs etc" and not because the drug itself. but once you see this problem from my perspective (even if i am just wrong), you will see that they are all in the same boat. ALL of them. we are just creating more hipocrisy with thoughts like yours.

this is only going to end when old myths (like merckx, LA etc) are destroyed (because they arent real and so no one will dream about being the new armstrong for example) and it becomes more expensive to be a doper than a clean rider.

oldman,

am i wrong? those that are caught cheating have to be punished just for their own safety (and others. look at ricco). thats my opinion. this case in particular is different because there is no proof of cheating. easy as that.

you cant win against doping. we have doping in our genes.

 

[flicker]

I fully understand your point of view.

It is :

"I like Contador, and I will defend him regardless. I will use :
a) Technicalities (only 50 pictograms man),
b) Legalities (the plasticizer test was unofficial, so we have to ignore it),
c) Rationalities (I suspect that others dope more, and he would still win if he and others were still clean)."


No matter how you dress it up, you are still defending a CHEATER !

Contador is not a cheater until he is sanctioned. I have my suspicions, but they are only suspicions until verified in a court of law, until Contador is found guilty.

 

[c&cfan]

I think that some of what you said is true, specially the part about doping always existing, but it does not mean that I have to accept it. Maybe a little but not widespread and endemic

Still does not answer my question. How do you know that a clean rider cannot win in a pro-race today? maybe you are talking about Grand Tours. You have to be more specific.



Now if you are like that with your friends or co-workers you will have to expect the same behavior from them towards you. I think you are going in the wrong direction, IMHO.



Now you are just trying to catch a silly argument. Who said that in the Clinic??

to the last question, i am always reading that in this forum.
"oh.. i hope he becomes the next merckx"
"other than merckx, who was the greatest?" (title of a thread.)
"no one can be like he was"

etc etc.

"Now if you are like that with your friends or co-workers you will have to expect the same behavior from them towards you. I think you are going in the wrong direction, IMHO."

i live in portugal. my country is in deep sh*t right now. the only magazines that are selling something have to talk about ronaldo's private life. the only movies that have audience is "crepusculo". the only thing that matters to old man is football and their hope for benfica to become great because porto is their main rival.

young girls can be\want to be everything but Women. young boys just want to have a drink. but later some of them become Men. girls also like bieber.

our industry sucks. our military sucks. only a few make the country swim a little. we are going to a deep hole sooner or later..

dont forget that we were gods in 1500 and before.lol

why's that? lack of ganance and motivation. thats what makes us better in every aspect. today's kids arent looking to "kill" (not literally) their co-workers to get the best job possible. they dont even want to study. they only want a couple of € because they have their parents to take care of them until they (the parents) die or had enough of it. then, the kids to the army, to play playstation the all day until they can. after that, only god nows.

the result? crisis.

the same applies in cycling. to go up there and win something big (witch is their dream.) they have to be "bad". to make their dream come true, they cant be clean cyclists. but after that, maybe they can be "clean" as men.

 

[Andynonomous]

b) Legalities (Innocent until proven guilty),

Contador is not a cheater until he is sanctioned. I have my suspicions, but they are only suspicions until verified in a court of law, until Contador is found guilty.

I trust you can recognize the irony.

 

[Escarabajo]

to the last question, i am always reading that in this forum.
"oh.. i hope he becomes the next merckx"
"other than merckx, who was the greatest?" (title of a thread.)
"no one can be like he was"

etc etc.

"Now if you are like that with your friends or co-workers you will have to expect the same behavior from them towards you. I think you are going in the wrong direction, IMHO."

i live in portugal. my country is in deep sh*t right now. the only magazines that are selling something have to talk about ronaldo's private life. the only movies that have audience is "crepusculo". the only thing that matters to old man is football and their hope for benfica to become great because porto is their main rival.

young girls can be\want to be everything but Women. young boys just want to have a drink. but later some of them become Men. girls also like bieber.

our industry sucks. our military sucks. only a few make the country swim a little. we are going to a deep hole sooner or later..

dont forget that we were gods in 1500 and before.lol

why's that? lack of ganance and motivation. thats what makes us better in every aspect. today's kids arent looking to "kill" (not literally) their co-workers to get the best job possible. they dont even want to study. they only want a couple of € because they have their parents to take care of them until they (the parents) die or had enough of it. then, the kids to the army, to play playstation the all day until they can. after that, only god nows.

the result? crisis.

the same applies in cycling. to go up there and win something big (witch is their dream.) they have to be "bad". to make their dream come true, they cant be clean cyclists. but after that, maybe they can be "clean" as men.

You have to be more positive.

These situations do not mean that you have to be 33% bad. I bet Colombia was worst and I didn’t go screwing people around.

But if you get caught doing something bad, you have to get punished. And you know the consequences. So please don't get caught like Contador did.

 

[c&cfan]

You have to be more positive.

These situations do not mean that you have to be 33% bad. I bet Colombia was worst and I didn’t go screwing people around.

But if you get caught doing something bad, you have to get punished. And you know the consequences. So please don't get caught like Contador did.

i am not saying that we must be bad persons. i am just saying that in order for us to improve as men but also as cyclist, worker etc, especially to be the best, there's a price for us and for our rivals. that's life. life is a war.

lots of people here are just denying it without logic an reason, an when some of them agree, they fail in aplly that logic and reason to more than one subject.

to be a champion, to conquer fans, to achieve their dreams, they have to dope, with or without drugs.

and in my eyes and using evidence, contador isnt like ricco LA or merckx.
(for now.) i believe that he is a clean person, but maybe he isnt. only he knows.

however, backing to topic, using blinkers, justice as been made.

 

[TheMaverick]

He looks a bit tubby without the clen.

 

[c&cfan]

he is racing with rage...

 

[Oldman]

to the last question, i am always reading that in this forum.
"oh.. i hope he becomes the next merckx"
"other than merckx, who was the greatest?" (title of a thread.)
"no one can be like he was"

etc etc.

"Now if you are like that with your friends or co-workers you will have to expect the same behavior from them towards you. I think you are going in the wrong direction, IMHO."

i live in portugal. my country is in deep sh*t right now. the only magazines that are selling something have to talk about ronaldo's private life. the only movies that have audience is "crepusculo". the only thing that matters to old man is football and their hope for benfica to become great because porto is their main rival.

young girls can be\want to be everything but Women. young boys just want to have a drink. but later some of them become Men. girls also like bieber.

our industry sucks. our military sucks. only a few make the country swim a little. we are going to a deep hole sooner or later..

dont forget that we were gods in 1500 and before.lol

why's that? lack of ganance and motivation. thats what makes us better in every aspect. today's kids arent looking to "kill" (not literally) their co-workers to get the best job possible. they dont even want to study. they only want a couple of € because they have their parents to take care of them until they (the parents) die or had enough of it. then, the kids to the army, to play playstation the all day until they can. after that, only god nows.

the result? crisis.

the same applies in cycling. to go up there and win something big (witch is their dream.) they have to be "bad". to make their dream come true, they cant be clean cyclists. but after that, maybe they can be "clean" as men.

Wow. I've worked with construction guys that escaped from El Salvador, Mexico, etc. and came to the US with no ability to speak English. Over time they were willing to talk about their early life and it was sometimes fairly bleak. Almost every one of them is happy, honest and willing to embrace the next day with the idea it can be better. They aren't liars, thieves or cheaters. Give yourself a break and be different than the examples you've resigned yourself to.

 

[M Sport]

He looks a bit tubby without the clen.

White/light blue always adds 10 pounds

Actually looks like he's been working on the guns (biceps, not pistols) on the off season too. Maybe some surfing and gym work?

 

[Escarabajo]

He looks a bit tubby without the clen.

So did Menchov!

There must be some panic in the peloton about their urine samples going to the Cologne lab.

 

[Merckx index]

"the UCI only received the full file a few days ago"


Again, delays because of "document transfers". These documents should not have to be "prepared", since the RFEC had already justified their decision (and presumably prepared all documentation to "prove" their case before it was publicly announced).

This smacks of some sort of "arraignment" being made behind the scenes. With the eternal political rangling during McQuaid's tenure, who would expect otherwise ?

It does seem a little strange. According to CN, McQ received the RFEC files Feb. 24 (so they should have till March 26, not 24, to appeal, but whatever). The RFEC decision was announced on the 14th, so why the 10 day delay? I understand that legal proceedings often move slowly, but this is the biggest name in the sport racing under suspicion until a decision is made. You would think that would call for an expedited process.

In theory, it seems to me RFEC could have sent UCI the files the day the decision was announced (if not, as andy notes, even before then), and UCI could have made its decision by the end of the month. Really, long before the end of the month. Then, if the decision was to appeal, the process could maybe have been finished before the start of the Giro, certainly before the start of the Tour. I know there are a lot of logistics involved, but again, the urgency of the situation should be the overriding factor. It has now been almost eight months since the alleged infraction occurred.

Does Bert gain by delays? The longer it drags out, the worse the hit his reputation takes, even if he is cleared in the end. If he loses in the end, he will lose all his results from the intervening period, no? Is he counting on the idea that if the case isn't settled by the time the Tour starts, no one would want to announce an adverse decision during that race, or even after it if he wins?

What is the situation exactly if he loses? I know it's been discussed here, but I'm not up on the details. The suspension can't begin with the positive at last year's Tour, because he has raced since then. It would seem that it would have to begin at the time the final decision is passed. But surely he can't be allowed to keep his results up to then, which in effect would backdate the suspension. Just the legal limbo caused by this situation makes McQ's ho-hum, take our time approach seem ludicrous.

 

[python]

So did Menchov!

which, having read your previous posts about light climbers not stashing much muscles, isn't a good news for bert considering the flat tt tomorrow ?

There must be some panic in the peloton about their urine samples going to the Cologne lab

. they never know where it's going. and even if they did, it's a huge misinformation that the cologne lab is unique with it's sensitivity. take my word or discard it, any lab director (much less a rider) would know as much about another lab as the the media reports (with all its inaccuracies) unless they were informally told during a seminar or some other academic gathering.

[/QUOTE]

 

[JRTinMA]

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