Contador acquitted

[Oldman]

The current rules state that there is no thresh hold for any amount of the substance found is an automatic 2 year ban. No one had a problem when Li Fuyu got a 2 year ban.

There is no need to prove the rider infused blood. It is up to rider to prove that he unknowingly took the substance through another method to doping, ie a piece of meat, a drink etc....

I have yet to see how that has been proven, have you?

You are correct. That is the maddening part of his apparent acquittal. The reason Clen and other similar drugs have such low thresholds, while apparently not a significant performance aid unto themselves, is that they are typically applied as part of a doping program. AC knows this, his handlers know it, the Spanish Feds know it and any of his apologists should know it as well-UNLESS HE CAN PROVIDE THE SOURCE ELEMENT. THEY DID NOT AND MADE UP SOME RIDICULOUS STORY.

 

[Cloxxki]

when did Rabobank become a clean team????

Fair point.
However I've seen that as doping controls got stronger, young Rabo riders seem to prevail more often. Having ridden against the likes of Boom and Langeveld myself when they were younger, I am inclined to believe they are uncannily talented. If someone like Boom would dope to average TdF levels, he'd not suffer as much and come home with such modest sucesses. Don't talk age or experience to me, the guy is a freak of nature and there have been other young performers.

 

[The Hitch]

when did Rabobank become a clean team????

Yeah. Theres even camera footage of a rabobank rider getting caught doping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya9RVtTjHB0

 

[Benotti69]

Fair point.
However I've seen that as doping controls got stronger, young Rabo riders seem to prevail more often. Having ridden against the likes of Boom and Langeveld myself when they were younger, I am inclined to believe they are uncannily talented. If someone like Boom would dope to average TdF levels, he'd not suffer as much and come home with such modest sucesses. Don't talk age or experience to me, the guy is a freak of nature and there have been other young performers.

when did doping controls get stronger?????

 

[peloton]

http://www.nachrichten.at/sport/mehr_sport/art109,562830
Werner Franke, German Anti-Doping specialist (well-respected, I might add)

Summary: AC's acquittal by the RFEC is a joke, but nonetheless merely predictable, considering the way Spain deals with its doped athletes. Franke says AC should been taken out of competition a long time ago, given that Contador is mentioned several times as a Fuentes-customer in the OP-documents of the Guardia Civil. Franke has these documents at home.

I saw the TV interview he gave back in -07, he sounded and looked like a madman.

BERLIN - German authorities said Tuesday they have received documents from doping expert Werner Franke which he claims show Tour de France winner Alberto Contador was involved in doping.

Franke said he has documents from last year’s Operation Puerto doping investigation in Spain which show that Contador, a Spaniard who won the doping-marred Tour on Sunday, had taken HMG-Lepori as a testosterone booster and an asthma product called TGN.

“We can confirm we have received the documents, and they will be incorporated into procedures of the district attorney’s office,” Christian Brockert, spokesman for Germany’s Federal Criminal Police Office, told The Associated Press.
Franke apparently has acquired other documents, saying only he got them “in my briefcase” while Spanish police weren’t watching.
“I have the things in front of me; I can directly decipher them, what (drugs) were taken, because I also am in possession of the records of the house search of this Dr. Fuentes,” Franke said.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/20044184

Soooo, Franke and the Germany's Federal Criminal Police Office have had these documents for over 3 years now, and no action have been taken?
Sounds like these "documents" are not as strong as the good doctor claims...

 

[sniper]

I saw the TV interview he gave back in -07, he sounded and looked like a madman.


http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/20044184

Soooo, Franke and the Germany's Federal Criminal Police Office have had these documents for over 3 years now, and no action have been taken?
Sounds like these "documents" are not as strong as the good doctor claims...

Thanks for that article. Very informative.

Etxebarría was right in his recent twitter:


Contador said Saturday his name mistakenly turned up in the Puerto file.

“I was in the wrong team at the wrong time and somehow my name got among the documents,” Contador said, adding cycling’s governing body corrected the mistake.

btw. Franke apparently also got nasty with Ulrich back in the days, and he made his reputation by researching the systematic sports doping that turned the former East Germany into an Olympic powerhouse.
If anything, this shows that Franke isn't biassed when he slams AC and Spain.

 

[peloton]

Thanks for that article. Very informative.

Etxebarría was right in his recent twitter:


Contador said Saturday his name mistakenly turned up in the Puerto file.

“I was in the wrong team at the wrong time and somehow my name got among the documents,” Contador said, adding cycling’s governing body corrected the mistake.

btw. Franke apparently also got nasty with Ulrich back in the days, and he made his reputation by researching the systematic sports doping that turned the former East Germany into an Olympic powerhouse.
If anything, this shows that Franke isn't biassed when he slams AC and Spain.

Sure not, but Franke did lose a case against Jan in court, iirc?

What I mean, if he has these "documents" that proofs AC was doping, why on earth hasn't there been any follow up? Why does he keep the documents at his home?
Makes no sense whatsoever!

I vividly remember the interview Franke gave in -07, that he is still spouting about it and has yet not provided any kind of data or fact to prove his claims, makes him look, well, not very credible. This happened over 3 years ago.
His appearance and speech sure didn't give him any more credibility...

 

[roundabout]

Sure not, but Franke did lose a case against Jan in court, iirc?

What I mean, if he has these "documents" that proofs AC was doping, why on earth hasn't there been any follow up? Why does he keep the documents at his home?
Makes no sense whatsoever!

I vividly remember the interview Franke gave in -07, that he is still spouting about it and has yet not provided any kind of data or fact to prove his claims, makes him look, well, not very credible. This happened over 3 years ago.
His appearance and speech sure didn't give him any more credibility...

Appearance and speech, eh?

Your focus on such details doesn't give you any more credibility.

 

[sniper]

Sure not, but Franke did lose a case against Jan in court, iirc?

What I mean, if he has these "documents" that proofs AC was doping, why on earth hasn't there been any follow up? Why does he keep the documents at his home?
Makes no sense whatsoever!

I vividly remember the interview Franke gave in -07, that he is still spouting about it and has yet not provided any kind of data or fact to prove his claims, makes him look, well, not very credible. This happened over 3 years ago.
His appearance and speech sure didn't give him any more credibility...

The fact that AC's initials were on Fuentes' list is beyond doubt. Jaksche shows them in this Blut und Spielen documentary.
I have no reason to doubt that Franke has the documents. But what can/should he do with these? He already received a gag order when he went after Jan, even though he was saying nothing but truth about Jan's doping issues. So why would he risk further disgrace by actively going after AC?

 

[Merckx index]

The ruling includes statements from Contador's experts that Clen transfer from blood bags is not consistent with current scientific knowledge (NB: this section poorly translates automatically). I know there is the issue about objectivity of each sides experts but an opposing view does not make it into the ruling .

I wish I could see more details about this argument. It is a good way to attack the transfusion charge, but from my own and other's research last summer when the positive was first announced and transfusion mentioned as a cause, I haven't seen anything approaching proof that CB at his tested levels could not result from transfusion. I think it would be difficult to establish a definitive argument based purely on numbers--i.e., given a likely amount in his blood if he were using CB regularly, a transfusion would not expose him to enough CB to test positive. Maybe someone made the case that the CB would be degraded in blood, but again, I would be interested to see the argument. My guess is what Bert's team claimed is that there was no proof that CB could be transferred in this way, and that RFEC was inclined to buy that as sufficient, or at least very helpful.

 

[sniper]

praising as well as critique of wada/usada anti-doping strategy in the washington post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/26/AR2011022604083_3.html

 

[Cimber]

who is biased, he was found with Clen is his system and to be cleared without proving how i got there? He said he ate something, so no evidence and now cleared.

Without the plasticzer test he has to prove he unknowingly ate something that contained traces of a banned substance. I have not seen/read proof that it was a genuine mistake, have you?

As far as I have understood he has proved beyond reasonable doubt that the clen couldnt have entered his body in an illigal way (fx via blood doping) leaving only food contimination left. Thats what the recent leak indicated anyways. And if he can prove and no faul play was invovled that has to be good enough even if he cant trace back the meat.

I am not saying he is innocent, but since so many ppl here do their best to find him guilty just because they dont like him I am gonna try to take the other stand to even things out a little.

For cycling and for Berti's sake I hope it will end up at CAS and that their ruling will be accepted by all of us, whathever the ruling turns out to be, also if he is aquited by CAS. FFs we have to trust an agency like CAS after all.

 

[Benotti69]

As far as I have understood he has proved beyond reasonable doubt that the clen couldnt have entered his body in an illigal way (fx via blood doping) leaving only food contimination left. Thats what the recent leak indicated anyways. And if he can prove and no faul play was invovled that has to be good enough even if he cant trace back the meat.

I am not saying he is innocent, but since so many ppl here do their best to find him guilty just because they dont like him I am gonna try to take the other stand to even things out a little.

For cycling and for Berti's sake I hope it will end up at CAS and that their ruling will be accepted by all of us, whathever the ruling turns out to be, also if he is aquited by CAS. FFs we have to trust an agency like CAS after all.

i have yet to see proof.

I hope it goes to CAS and due process is followed.

 

[sartoris]

......so many ppl here do their best to find him guilty just because they dont like him .....

You nailed it, man. You nailed it. But I can't help feeling sorry about them - they're gonna swallow some more pistolero bang bang this season

 

[Benotti69]

I am not saying he is innocent, but since so many ppl here do their best to find him guilty just because they dont like him I am gonna try to take the other stand to even things out a little.

the only ppl in here who appeared not to like him have been Armstrong fanboys and their opinion is worthless.

as for others i think most admired how he handled his time on Astana in the TdF while Uniballer/Bruyneel tried their hardest to undermine him and jeopardise his chances of winning.

This case has been extremely unfair as for the standard process most riders who test positive for a banned substance have been handled. he has been unfairly, in his favour, given every chance to exonerate himself, but we the fans of cycling have yet to see the proof and if we are calling it as we see it, a Spanish sham, that is not anti Contador that is anti dopers. Big difference and if it as it looks like now, Contador falls into the second category well he deserves every word of criticism that comes his way.

 

[Andynonomous]

It's all about winning.

You nailed it, man. You nailed it. But I can't help feeling sorry about them - they're gonna swallow some more pistolero bang bang this season

Which proves what the motivation for many are, for defending their favorites on here (whether they be Contador, or Armstrong, or any other CHEAT).



"If the truth isn't on my side, even though I strongly suspect that he is doping, I will use technicalities (it was only 50 pictograms man), legalities (the plasticizer test was 'unofficial' therefore inadmissable), and rationalities (hey the other guys are doing it too) to defend him.

I don't care that he is a LIAR , CHEAT, and THIEF, only that he wins and gets away with it, so I can lord it over the fans of the other guys."



This immature attitude is mostly apparent in males aged 14 to 34 (males are well known to mature more slowly than do females).

Don't worry guys, you will grow up, eventually.

 

[sartoris]

...blahblahblah....

Hey, listen. As far as I'm concerned he's been acquitted so far. Let's see what happens next. But as of now, no matter how much you hate him, he can race.

Which means you're gonna swallow some more bangybangy this season

PD: I'm 45

 

[Andynonomous]

Hey, listen. I don't care if he is a CHEAT, he got off and is going to win. Nya, nya, nya nya nya nya

PD: I'm 45 and act like I am 14

There. I translated for you.


By the way, I hate all CHEATS (including Contador, and Armstrong)

 

[Francois the Postman]

Guys, that's more than enough with the condescending posts about each other. Debate issues, not posters.

 

[Andynonomous]

Spanish "champions" together.

Peas in a pod ?


http://twitpic.com/443hhf

 

[peloton]

Appearance and speech, eh?

Your focus on such details doesn't give you any more credibility.

Thanks, I never even pretended to have that.

The fact that AC's initials were on Fuentes' list is beyond doubt. Jaksche shows them in this Blut und Spielen documentary.
I have no reason to doubt that Franke has the documents. But what can/should he do with these? He already received a gag order when he went after Jan, even though he was saying nothing but truth about Jan's doping issues. So why would he risk further disgrace by actively going after AC?

As were every single LS riders, AC had the note "the same as JJ or nothing", again if l remember correctly? Has JJ said he saw Fuentes treat AC?
If Franke has the documents, why didn't he deliver them to WADA back in -07?
Tell me why.

 

[sniper]

Thanks, I never even pretended to have that.



As were every single LS riders, AC had the note "the same as JJ or nothing", again if l remember correctly? Has JJ said he saw Fuentes treat AC?
If Franke has the documents, why didn't he deliver them to WADA back in -07?
Tell me why.

What I do know is that WADA hasn't yet closed the Fuentes case, and for all I know, they are in the possession of said documents.
If anything is keeping AC on the road, it's the RFEC's reluctance to deal with him.

Also, if you doubt AC was a Fuentes customer, what on earth do you make of Etxebarría's recent twitter-outburst? Is he spinning?

 

[The Hitch]

Peas in a pod ?


http://twitpic.com/443hhf

Whose the guy in the middle.

Also wtf is Nadal doing aknowledging Contador. Nadal omits cycling from the list of important sports, never mentioned Contador in that ad which listed every Spanish success of 2010, and even said that doping is a thing that only cyclists do.

Maybe it was a Fuentes obligation

 

[Andynonomous]

just a fan.

Whose the guy in the middle.

Also wtf is Nadal doing aknowledging Contador. Nadal omits cycling from the list of important sports, never mentioned Contador in that ad which listed every Spanish success of 2010, and even said that doping is a thing that only cyclists do.

Maybe it was a Fuentes obligation

The guy in the middle is just a fan,
http://www.bikezona.com/noticias/noticiasBZ-noticia-ver.asp?id=12152



It is VERY bad optics for Nadal to be socializing with someone who tested positive for PEDs (even if he was "exonerated" by his homeboys). The reason being, is that these "heroes" surround themselves with fanboys and yes men (enablers), and have no idea what the public will make of it.

I couldn't believe Nadal was actually squealing like a stuck pig, over the proposal to make tennis's testing regime more stringent. This just screams "DOPER" to anyone with half a brain. Yet he complained anyway.

Contador is at least a little bit savy (he knows that his reputation has been permanently damaged).

 

[Escarabajo]

As far as I have understood he has proved beyond reasonable doubt that the clen couldnt have entered his body in an illigal way (fx via blood doping) leaving only food contimination left. Thats what the recent leak indicated anyways. And if he can prove and no faul play was invovled that has to be good enough even if he cant trace back the meat.

I am not saying he is innocent, but since so many ppl here do their best to find him guilty just because they dont like him I am gonna try to take the other stand to even things out a little.

For cycling and for Berti's sake I hope it will end up at CAS and that their ruling will be accepted by all of us, whathever the ruling turns out to be, also if he is aquited by CAS. FFs we have to trust an agency like CAS after all.

I like him. He seems like a very nice guy. But that does not mean that I belive that he is not guilty and should not be punished. He broke the rules and the Spanish Federation are trying to get him off the hook on a technicality.

Simple: I like the guy but he should be punished.