Contador blasts LA

[palmerq]

AC looks perfectly fine--his comment was fair enough (respect the accomplishments on the road, don't admire the man personally--I'm sure Lance feels the same way about Hinault and LeMond). Lance overreacted yet again.

I think this whole thing has become very strange :S One attack from contador that was discussed with the victim and there is nearly 1000 replies in the thread on here, I´ve never seen the fate of kloden cause such a reaction. I am also a bit confused where thee comments from fellow like bruyneel, armstrong and this wilcockson(I´m still not sure this is his real name, sound like school boy humour to me) make it seem like contador has been disrespecting all his team mates(he did a bit with armstrong, but to be fair he did deserve it), but these comments come after this press confrence with alberto, where he was quite mild and only mentioned armstrong, nothing about team astana... It´s all very odd

Although could be some other things have been going on(although i think we would have heard some twitterings about them), I hope some good journalist fellows ask the rest of the astana team, especially klodi, so maybe we can find more out about what´s been going on here, and how little alberto was to his team.

 

[frizzlefry]

Sounds a lot like Kloden. He was holding on for dear life.

Only diffence is Ullrich was cooked as well, unlike the Schlecks.

 

[Anonymous]

I believe it was the famous "Look" stage. He was riding with Azevedo and Ullrich and some of the other "favorites". He accelerated and rode away. He didn't give two sh!ts about Azevedo or his time loss. Why? Because he was the overall contender, not Azevedo. I'm not even going to get into the fact that Contador SPOKE to Kloden before he put in the move and Kloden was ok with it. I'm willing to bet money Lance NEVER did such a thing and would have laughed if someone suggested otherwise.

This whole Contador attacked his team mates commentary is just getting too stupid for words.

OK. See if you can follow along. Was Kloeden "setting up" AC to attack the Schleck Bros? Re-read your comments above. Too stupid for words is in there.

 

[cody_57]

You asked a question, I provided the logical answer. The MJ was NEVER in jeopardy. It sounds good to say that, but the only argument you can build to support is built on a bunch of conditional statements that you can't support. He was on the road, with two GC contenders, thought he could get away and didn't. Once he realized he couldn't he shut it down. How that put the MJ jeopardy is beyond me--Kloden NEVER paced Contador on that ride (he was sitting on Contador's wheel). If there was an attack Contador couldn't respond to, do you think Kloden was going to close it down? I never saw that the entire Tour, but maybe I missed a stage or two where he did it.

Correct. However, it seems a lot of people are buying Bob Roll et al's drivel about Contador isolating himself. Kloden did not look as if he could help. And you're right, he very quickly shut it down and kept looking if Kloden could ride himself back up.

 

[Carl0880]

The closest comment I have seen Contador complain about the team is that the team wasn't committed to him 100 percent, which can easiily ruled to be referring to Lance. I think even ifContador feels that hte team didn't do enough, its because they were given orders by Johan. obviously being a paid professional, Contador would recognize they were just doing there job

 

[richwagmn]

OK. See if you can follow along. Was Kloeden "setting up" AC to attack the Schleck Bros? Re-read your comments above. Too stupid for words is in there.

He should have been if he was a loyal teammate and not trying to earn himself a podium spot.

 

[Carboncrank]

True, and AC's decision to take a big risk for a dubious payoff says a lot about both his:
-relative immaturity/stupidity/whatever-you-want-to-call-it
AND
-justified confidence in his raw talent
The disconnect between the two will be the story of next July.

No teammate of Lance's was ever expected to have a podium chance. All this talk about the wildly successful "Bruyneel/Armstrong Plan" and AC's disdain for it is a complete red herring. Slow-down-so-your-mates-can-podium has never been part of that plan. But all of a sudden, in 2009, AC is expected to adopt the new and improved you're-not-quite-in-charge-so-ride-more-easily-for-your-teammates'-chances Bruyneel Plan?

Odd.. one one hand you agree about the immaturity thing, but seem to say if he'd done what he'd been told it would have amounted to a slow down plan.

Not attacking when all you need to do is mark is not a slow down plan.
Remove his attacks on 7 and 17 and Astana sweeps the podium, and Alberto sill wins the TDF.
The podium sweep presented itself as a possibility during the race when people like Sastre, Menchov and Evans fail to materialize as challengers. The fact that Levi, Lance and Kloden turned out to be better was not a given.
Presented with this Johan had a plan that could have worked.
Truth is, I know I'm being harder on Alberto than he probably deserves, but hey, it makes good forum talk.
I doubt that Lance is angry that he got third instead of second. He has made his point completely. The fact he didn't beat a couple of the young guys is only matters to the most rabid of the detractors.
He'll come back and try again and I'm glad it's all creating a way for him and Johan to get away from Astana and the return Vino.
Johan just rented the place, cleaned it up, repaired the damage, and is now returning it to the apparently ungrateful owners.

 

[Publicus]

Only diffence is Ullrich was cooked as well, unlike the Schlecks.

Fair enough. I guess I don't understand people's point. Contador gave it go, thinking they were cooked. They weren't, but Kloden was. That happens. It's part of racing. You'd think Contador put a stick in Kloden's spoke or something.

 

[Anonymous]

I believe it was the famous "Look" stage. He was riding with Azevedo and Ullrich and some of the other "favorites". He accelerated and rode away. He didn't give two sh!ts about Azevedo or his time loss. Why? Because he was the overall contender, not Azevedo. I'm not even going to get into the fact that Contador SPOKE to Kloden before he put in the move and Kloden was ok with it. I'm willing to bet money Lance NEVER did such a thing and would have laughed if someone suggested otherwise.

As I posted elsewhere but as I have often learned on here, when you post something really relevant and true, it gets ignored. Thats when you know you made a good post. Lance, Bruyneel, Levi, Horner all moaned about the Contador attack on Kloeden but the man himself has never criticised Contador or the attack. Why not if it was such a terrible thing to do.

You are kidding, right?

 

[frizzlefry]

Fair enough. I guess I don't understand people's point. Contador gave it go, thinking they were cooked. They weren't, but Kloden was. That happens. It's part of racing. You'd think Contador put a stick in Kloden's spoke or something.

What p!ssed the team off is JB told AC that day "you dont have to attack today to win the TdF." And I can see why they would be p!ssed. If the Schlecks had been cooked and couldnt stay with AC then it would nt be that big of deal cause the time gaps would not have happened. I chalk it up as AC not understanding race tactics. If JB told me that, I would have listened. AC obviously didnt and his attack opened up time gaps for the Schlecks.

 

[Publicus]

Odd.. one one hand you agree about the immaturity thing, but seem to say if he'd done what he'd been told it would have amounted to a slow down plan.

Not attacking when all you need to do is mark is not a slow down plan.
Remove his attacks on 7 and 17 and Astana sweeps the podium, and Alberto sill wins the TDF.
The podium sweep presented itself as a possibility during the race when people like Sastre, Menchov and Evans fail to materialize as challengers. The fact that Levi, Lance and Kloden turned out to be better was not a given.
Presented with this Johan had a plan that could have worked.
Truth is, I know I'm being harder on Alberto than he probably deserves, but hey, it makes good forum talk.
I doubt that Lance is angry that he got third instead of second. He has made his point completely. The fact he didn't beat a couple of the young guys is only matters to the most rabid of the detractors.
He'll come back and try again and I'm glad it's all creating a way for him and Johan to get away from Astana and the return Vino.
Johan just rented the place, cleaned it up, repaired the damage, and is now returning it to the apparently ungrateful owners.

If Astana had the three strongest riders, they would have been on the podium. They didn't, so they weren't. It really is as simple as that. They had two of the strongest riders, and the strongest rider by a significant margin.

And what you aren't doing is giving Contador the credit he deserves for persevering in the face of a situation Armstrong never faced in his 7 year run.

 

[fulcrum]

Remove his attacks on 7 and 17 and Astana sweeps the podium, and Alberto sill wins the TDF.

That my friend is the BIG LIE. One of the biggest ones being repeated in the forum. The fact that Andy beat Armstrong in the GC has nothing to do with Contador's attacks and guess what, you cannot fit 4 riders (AC, AS, AK and LA) in the same podium.

Contador's attacks allowed Lance to finish on the podium, instead of Kloden. And that is the big irony about Lance's tweet at the time.

Step your game up!

 

[Anonymous]

Or he drops EVERYONE and solos and puts 2 minutes plus on the Schleck Brothers. Or he drops Frank and Koden and Lance passes them on the downhill. Or Lance could have been more attentive on the slopes of the Col de Romme and Frank never bridges up to Andy where he is isolated with Contador and Kloden, who proceed to attack and drop him putting major time into Wiggins and Andy Schleck.

I mean either you have a limited imagination or you just want to make up a couple of scenarios that cast Contador in the worst light possible.

Your arguments just keep getting more entertaining. Again, Horner's full of it as is LA, Levi, Kloeden, Bruyneel.. hell even the Schleck's had a smile on their face.

Just keep going please...

 

[Publicus]

OK. See if you can follow along. Was Kloeden "setting up" AC to attack the Schleck Bros? Re-read your comments above. Too stupid for words is in there.

What is too stupid for words is this notion that a GC contender should be concerned about the podium position of a domestique. That's what is too stupid for words. Hell LANCE surely didn't care about Kloden's podium aspirations or else he wouldn't have been sacrificing his overall position to help Lance limit his losses on Verbier. Or did you forget about that?

And to answer you question: Kloden could only hold his wheel--and barely that. He didn't cover a single acceleration. Did sit on the wheel of the Schlecks. All things Kloden did for Armstrong (as noted above). He attacked the Schlecks, just like he did at Verbier. Or was he attacking Armstrong too?

 

[knewcleardaze]

I've read the first few pages on this thread. The LA and AC supporters and detractors each have their reasons. In the world of reality, AC was superior to LA on the road.That is why he was on the podium's top step.The quickest time around France wins. The three week side show... eh! As to next year, LA can assemble the team of his choosing. Hire riders and staff to haul/nurse him around France. I am not afraid to say the young time trialists and young climbers will make it crystal clear that LA's best days are far behind him. Armstrong will be a year older and slower. The young heads will be another year closer, if not at their prime. It's the natural progression.I think he will embarrass himself.

 

[Carboncrank]

Correct. However, it seems a lot of people are buying Bob Roll et al's drivel about Contador isolating himself. Kloden did not look as if he could help. And you're right, he very quickly shut it down and kept looking if Kloden could ride himself back up.

Who do you think you are kidding? Shut it down would have meant wait for Kloden. The Schlecks wouldn't allow that. The damage had been done.
He was isolated against them and they attempted to take advantage of it. Expending that energy could have backfired and is the reason you mark when you have the lead. There was a TT and Ventoux yet to do.
Did he give the win away or was he to gassed to win it?

 

[frizzlefry]

Your arguments just keep getting more entertaining. Again, Horner's full of it as is LA, Levi, Kloeden, Bruyneel.. hell even the Schleck's had a smile on their face.

Just keep going please...

Of course the Schlecks were smiling. Not only did AC help them gain a time advantage he also gave them the stage. It doesnt get any better than that in cycling. Poor AC. He'll understand his mistake one day.

 

[Anonymous]

I bet getting time on rivals when you can is ALWAYS a part of winning tours. I'll ALWAYS say that. If the move succeeds, no one is talking about Kloden going out the back. They are just talking about how amazing the move was and how dominating Contador was. Your objections are just predicated on the outcome, one that obviously wasn't foreseeable by either Kloden (who agreed with the decision) or Contador.

Not every attack is the grand slam, but you'll never hit the grand slam unless you swing.

OK... So why not attack on every stage?? It was a stupid and unnecessary thing to do. It's ok to acknowledge this. I don't think anyone's saying he was not the strongest. Clearly he was. He is not a team player and he demonstrated this on multiple occasions. That's it.

 

[Publicus]

Your arguments just keep getting more entertaining. Again, Horner's full of it as is LA, Levi, Kloeden, Bruyneel.. hell even the Schleck's had a smile on their face.

Just keep going please...

Get some context (and I'd suggest reading my other response to that poster, misread his initial comment).

Horner is full of it. He didn't chastise Lance for letting Schleck bridge back to Andy where he was isolated with Contador and Kloden on Col de Romme. But what do I know. Apparently that was a smart tactical move.

And throwing Kloden in demonstrates how much you are just making crap up.

 

[LaBici]

... I don't think anybody would side with Contador!

don't bet the farm on it.

He just made the most influental rider in history and Johan his enemy!

not by a long shot is Mr Armstrong the most influential rider in history... unless like the young'uns in the forum does your history start in 2000 ;=)

You guys have a very narrow biased view of cycling, which is too bad. This sport has over 100yrs of history. And it's more than just about the TdF. although that is what riders like Lance would like you to believe. Cycling is about a whole season in a variety of events riding against all kinds of various specialists.

 

[Publicus]

OK... So why not attack on every stage?? It was a stupid and unnecessary thing to do. It's ok to acknowledge this. I don't think anyone's saying he was not the strongest. Clearly he was. He is not a team player and he demonstrated this on multiple occasions. That's it.

Oh jesus christ dude. He thought he had a winning move, he didn't, it happens. Ask Lance. He tried to drop Wiggins on Col de Romme, couldn't and settled in until Wiggins self-destructed. Does that mean Lance wasn't a team player? No. Just that his move didn't work. It's easy to criticize in hindsight.

Same with the Schlecks. They put in moves, some of them worked, most of them didn't. It's called racing, not freaking tempo riding. Not everything can be controlled from the car.

 

[Anonymous]

What is too stupid for words is this notion that a GC contender should be concerned about the podium position of a domestique. That's what is too stupid for words. Hell LANCE surely didn't care about Kloden's podium aspirations or else he wouldn't have been sacrificing his overall position to help Lance limit his losses on Verbier. Or did you forget about that?

And to answer you question: Kloden could only hold his wheel--and barely that. He didn't cover a single acceleration. Did sit on the wheel of the Schlecks. All things Kloden did for Armstrong (as noted above). He attacked the Schlecks, just like he did at Verbier. Or was he attacking Armstrong too?

You just don't get it. Let's say Contador bonks or crashes or has a mechanical? Was blowing out Kloeden and isolating himself the smart move? He did not need more time from Andy Schleck at that point did he??

I guess in your world it makes perfect sense. Tactically it was a stupid thing to do.

 

[Carboncrank]

I think he will embarrass himself.

Many people though that this year. You too maybe? lol

People will underestimate him again next year. He will have 2 solid years of training by then. No injuries, even more comfortable on the bike in races.
He will come back stronger. And if he gets his timing right the way he used to he won't be using the first 2 weeks to ramp up his fittness as he did this year.

Older means you get your fitness back slower. He has a full year.
Be Afraid.

 

[cody_57]

Too many biased, irrational arguments here! But then again, very few (if any) of us have the real facts, so it's all speculation and wishful thnking and hearsay and some plain old testosterone! Are you guys all doping?

Hope to see you guys around for the Vuelta! (Or not. Think some are here only because it's the TdF.)

 

[LaBici]

By the way lets not let all the Oxygen in the room flow to Armstrong.

Kudos to Cavendish, Pellizotti, & to A. Schleck. And a special shout out to Wiggo.
Bye until next year. I'm going back to study my cycling history.